The BASEMENT WINDOW and GRATE.

[twizzler333]

The most likely reason for the window to be broken was to STAGE a break-in by an intruder. I say this because there was also a blue suitcase under the window, as if to have something to step on, and this appears to be naive staging also.

An intruder, after being all over the house, wouldn't have used the basement window as the means to exit the house. He would have used one of the five doors on the first floor.

IMO the window was broken by a Ramsey to stage the entry point by an intruder. But It's hard to determine by whom and when. If staging, it was broken after JonBenet died but before the 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M., and could have been done by either Burke or by John.

A broken window in mid-winter in Colorado does not go unnoticed and unfixed. And LHP would have noticed the cold wind blowing in during her occasional trips to the downstairs laundry room, and at other times. She says she never noticed a broken window.

The Ramseys are probably lying about the window having been broken earlier in the year. The broken window appears more likely to be staging.

JMO

So you think they went in the train room, broke the window, came out closed the door, propped a chair up to block the door? I am trying to make sure I am understanding this. If they did this, why prop up the chair against the door?

 

[BlueCrab]

So you think they went in the train room, broke the window, came out closed the door, propped a chair up to block the door? I am trying to make sure I am understanding this. If they did this, why prop up the chair against the door?

Twizzler,

The chair up against the train room door is puzzling. We only have John Ramsey's word that the chair was there, and that would have been around 10 or 11 A.M. when John admits he went downstairs to check the window.

But prior to that, just after 6 A.M., the police and Fleet White searched the basement and they didn't report anything about a chair up against the train room door. So the chair wasn't apparently in place against the door during those times.

The door, of course, is the only way to get from the broken basement window to the basement stairs leading up to the upper floors of the house. So why would John put the chair against the door at 10 or 11 A.M.? What would he gain by doing that? The chair, if in place that night, would have blocked an intruder from getting beyond the door and into the house proper, thus defeating his theory that an intruder gained access by way of the basement window. Puzzling.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

Plus, the glass would be outside the window as well from being struck from inside. You cannot hit something in one direction and have it break and all of it go backwards in the opposite direction. Some peices would have come back but most would have went out the window. I really don't think an intruder or anything with this crime involves the window, the train room or the chair. I think this is just coincidental. I think the person accessed the house via a door and knew the family, JonBenet and the house (floorplan/layout) very well.

I think it is a longshot, simply because of the alibi's and the ATM photos, etc. that JAR did this. Why would he go to all this trouble and why would his friends give him an alibi knowing what he probably did? It just doesn't make sense to me. This crime seems to be one of a person with rage in them. I think if he flew from Atlanta to Boulder with the sole purpose of killing his little sister, he wouldn't be able to carry such a rage that long.

I will admit there IS lots of evidence to suggest him doing it, but I think there would have to be some really substantial alibi evidence to have cleared him, but then again, with the shotty work they did all along, it could have been just sloppily done and he just rode right under the radar so to speak on this one.

I definitely could come up with a theory on this JAR spin though, IF I could see/read more about his alibi evidence. And also, I suppose I may need to take a closer look at that face and hair on him, it may just be the face I saw in my "dream".......interesting. Does he have hair that could appear to be highlighted? I think in my dream it was a dark color with graying in it, but it well could be blond streaks/highlights........NOT that this dream I had is even worth a hill of beans in this case or my thoughts about it, but based on some other things that HAVE happened in my life like this, it has my wheels spinning.

 

[gsquared]

IIRC, a spider expert was called in from Virginia Tech and he said the web had been there for awhile and that the grate could not have been disturbed. The web was spun by a type of spider that would not have been active in Boulder's climactic conditions for that time of year. I can't remember where I read that.

 

[UKGuy]

BlueCrab

Above you write:
Staging Post #37
"The most likely reason for the window to be broken was to STAGE a break-in by an intruder. I say this because there was also a blue suitcase under the window, as if to have something to step on, and this appears to be naive staging also.

An intruder, after being all over the house, wouldn't have used the basement window as the means to exit the house. He would have used one of the five doors on the first floor.

IMO the window was broken by a Ramsey to stage the entry point by an intruder. But It's hard to determine by whom and when. If staging, it was broken after JonBenet died but before the 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M., and could have been done by either Burke or by John.

... The Ramseys are probably lying about the window having been broken earlier in the year. The broken window appears more likely to be staging."

And
on thread - Profile of the killer Post #9

You write:
"IMO there had been a plan to get the body out of the house. But the body was found in the house and not outside, such as in someone's back yard, because of a light snowfall that night that foiled the plan. IMO the killer was a Ramsey or was with a Ramsey and, had the body been removed from the house, the perps' footprints in the snow would have led away from the house AND BACK AGAIN. There was no option other than to leave the body in the house."

If the window was broken from the outside by Burke or John, would this not have left fotprints in the snow ?

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab

Above you write:
Staging Post #37
"The most likely reason for the window to be broken was to STAGE a break-in by an intruder. I say this because there was also a blue suitcase under the window, as if to have something to step on, and this appears to be naive staging also.

An intruder, after being all over the house, wouldn't have used the basement window as the means to exit the house. He would have used one of the five doors on the first floor.

IMO the window was broken by a Ramsey to stage the entry point by an intruder. But It's hard to determine by whom and when. If staging, it was broken after JonBenet died but before the 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M., and could have been done by either Burke or by John.

... The Ramseys are probably lying about the window having been broken earlier in the year. The broken window appears more likely to be staging."

And
on thread - Profile of the killer Post #9

You write:
"IMO there had been a plan to get the body out of the house. But the body was found in the house and not outside, such as in someone's back yard, because of a light snowfall that night that foiled the plan. IMO the killer was a Ramsey or was with a Ramsey and, had the body been removed from the house, the perps' footprints in the snow would have led away from the house AND BACK AGAIN. There was no option other than to leave the body in the house."

If the window was broken from the outside by Burke or John, would this not have left fotprints in the snow ?

UKGuy,

If a Ramsey broke the basement window on the night of the murder as part of the staging to throw suspicion toward an imaginary intruder gaining access at that point, they would have broken it from the INSIDE of the basement.

There was fresh snow outside, which trapped them inside of the house with the body. They didn't know the dusting of snow would soon melt.

The hole in the glass was small, about the size of a softball, and the glass shards from a light tap would have likely fallen both inside and outside -- making it unable to determine which side it was broken from.

John's story about breaking the glass earlier that summer just isn't credible. Cold winter air coming in that window, chilling the train room and the laundry room, would have been rectified immediately.

JMO

 

[UKGuy]

BlueCrab

Thanks for that explanation. What stopped the "Ramsey" from setting up the staging, calming everyone down, running through their "scripts" , then leaving the house with JonBenet's body , placing it elsewhere, then on discovering the RN , run outside looking for her, call the police, then call all the friends over to obscure any tracks further... not being pedantic about this just that if a "Ramsey" was willing to take small pragmatic risks in other areas why not in re-locating JonBenet, the snow does not seem be an insurmountable obstacle.

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab

Thanks for that explanation. What stopped the "Ramsey" from setting up the staging, calming everyone down, running through their "scripts" , then leaving the house with JonBenet's body , placing it elsewhere, then on discovering the RN , run outside looking for her, call the police, then call all the friends over to obscure any tracks further... not being pedantic about this just that if a "Ramsey" was willing to take small pragmatic risks in other areas why not in re-locating JonBenet, the snow does not seem be an insurmountable obstacle.

UKGuy,

The dusting of snow stopped them in doing just that. Leaving footprints in the snow was perceived as an insurmountable problem at the time, not knowing the light dusting would soon melt. The snow is the only reason there's a ransom note AND a body in the house.

JMO

 

[BigAppleDetective]

John Ramsey lifted the grate and went into the window. So did the perp. So did Lou Smit. But Steve Thomas said the person would have to be "a midget." That is a collossal lie.
John Ramsey goes down into the basement and sees an open window and the suitcase. [photographed clearly and magically by the criminalist] but this photo is ignored completely by the cops. Now he sees this and thinks to himself:
"Oh my God, my daughter has been kidnapped and probably will be murdered by some nut because I never bothered to get the window fixed. My WIFE, My SON, all my FRIENDS and EMPLOYEES and RELATIVES are going to HATE me. They will never forgive me. For the rest of my life I will be haunted by this. I'm the biggest in the world. I didn't fix the window. I was too drunk to lock up. I didn't put on the alarm." So he goes up and says nothing because he's overwhelmed with grief and guilt. His whole world is crashing in on him. He lost TWO DAUGHTERS now. He thinks God is punishing him. He is overwhelmed with emotional and mental anguish. He is suspicious of all his friends. Every time he loves someone beautiful: his first wife, his second wife, his daughter, his little girl . . . he loses them!

 

[tumble]

We have seen LS show that it was possible to climb down the window.
Suppose the intruder manages to do this without disturbing the spider how did he get out of the window.
Looking at the pics from the basement with the suitcase below, to me going out looks harder than going in.
You are standing on the wiggly suitcase, and then what?
I would like to see LS going out...

 

[BBB167893]

We have seen LS show that it was possible to climb down the window.
Suppose the intruder manages to do this without disturbing the spider how did he get out of the window.
Looking at the pics from the basement with the suitcase below, to me going out looks harder than going in.
You are standing on the wiggly suitcase, and then what?
I would like to see LS going out...

I think he DID go out. And he more or less proved what you say.

 

[tumble]

Thanks for the info. I am very impressed by LS

 

[BBB167893]

Thanks for the info. I am very impressed by LS

Yeah, I used to be! Until I asked myself some very simple questions.

 

[Toltec]

I don't recall Lou Smit ever climbing out the window....just entering. He had to maneuver his arse a bit and in doing so brought in some dirt and leaves. We all know there was no dirt and leaves inside the train room...only bits of glass.

 

[tumble]

Nice observation Toltec,

BTW, how did he manage to get his arse on the ledge? I probably just have the dimensions wrong...
I really want to see this in action
Somebody that have a link.

 

[BBB167893]

It was quite illuminating, tumble!

He drops into this well, does this break-dance bit, all with no winter clothing.

 

[Bev]

pictures, there was a garden hose on part of the grate and also the gas grill was on part of the grate - that means that the perp after climbing out of the window, stopped to put the grate back, and then move the grill and the hose back onto it - why would he do that?

 

[BBB167893]

pictures, there was a garden hose on part of the grate and also the gas grill was on part of the grate - that means that the perp after climbing out of the window, stopped to put the grate back, and then move the grill and the hose back onto it - why would he do that?

Wow, I never even noticed that.

 

[tumble]

Good observation Bev :boohoo:

 

[Bev]

me think Lou Smit had his mind made up from the beginning.