The cord and tape.

[michelle]

Okay, this is not what I really believe but I'm going to throw it out there.
What if JBR's kidnappers were really going to kidnap her and
then she woke up and recognized them, figured out she was smart, and could
ID them on her safe return, even if they succeeded with getting the ransom
money so that's why they killed her and the whole plan went south? Thoughts?
I still believe it was a cover-up but I am really trying to be open-minded
about the intruder theory.

I dont know about that, i mean who really breaks into someones house to take a little girl from her bedroom and molest her or keep her in her bedroom and molest her? I have heard of some crazy stuff, but i am trying to keep an open mind for the intruder theory as well, i so dont want the parents to be the murderers but i just think it was somebody she knew but i think it may have been a cover up for one of the family members.......

 

[dingo]

Okay, this is not what I really believe but I'm going to throw it out there.
What if JBR's kidnappers were really going to kidnap her and
then she woke up and recognized them, figured out she was smart, and could
ID them on her safe return, even if they succeeded with getting the ransom
money so that's why they killed her and the whole plan went south? Thoughts?
I still believe it was a cover-up but I am really trying to be open-minded
about the intruder theory.

Ellen13,where does the sexual assault and garrotting come into this plan.

 

[Nehemiah]

i never thought of that, good point...I just have such a hard time believing that PR killed her, although we all know what some parents are capable of, it just breaks my heart and patsy seems like she was really heartbroken everytime she talked about jonbenet it seems like to me anyway that she is believable, although in my opinion i would not rule out a cover up...I dont know, i dont know if we will ever really know what happened that night.....One thing that i never fully understood is when they were searching the house for jon benet and nobody found her the 1st time, then on the 2nd time they did, i often wondered if they meant for her not to be found and had her hidden down there so that maybe they could move her body later on?? I dont know it just seems fishy to search the house once and if your kid was missing i would leave no stone unturned and they obviously didnt look in the whole house or she would have been found the first time...

But...the police officer could have found her early on. He said that he failed to look in the room where she was eventually located.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

The ff done all the deeds without worrying about waking the sleeping family,but wanted time to 'escape' .Com on.Tell me HOTYH why didnt they take the body,FF had to exit the house anyhows ,it would make more sense to take the body.

Exactly, this was never a kidnapping, or they would taken JonBenet with them, dead or not. You can still ransom the body. If that's what this was about, then why didn't they do that? Because it was never a kidnapping. You don't stop to molest and strangle the child you're kidnapping in her own house. They had to have had a "safe place" to keep her until they collected the ransom, why not do the dirty business there? And what kidnapper doesn't come with their own note?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Exactly, this was never a kidnapping, or they would taken JonBenet with them, dead or not. You can still ransom the body. If that's what this was about, then why didn't they do that? Because it was never a kidnapping. You don't stop to molest and strangle the child you're kidnapping in her own house. They had to have had a "safe place" to keep her until they collected the ransom, why not do the dirty business there? And what kidnapper doesn't come with their own note?

It doesn't take much imagination to know that on the early morning of the 26th, there's probably only a few dozen cars in the neighborhood that are on the road. Do you think JBR's killers are going to take her body in the car with them? Isn't a dead 6 year old hard to explain to police officers who pulled you over after hearing about a child murder or kidnapping in the neighborhood?

In the FF scenario, the perps are heading to the international airport. That's another place where it would be hard for them to explain a dead 6 year old in the luggage.

The fact that JBR was left in the house is a no-brainer in the FF scenario.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Then why even bother to claim to be kidnapping her? So they can make a getaway? Please. They left before dawn, if any intruder was ever there at all, and it was dark enough and vacant enough to transport a small child to a car - just stuff her in a box and carry it out like you are carrying a Christmas present.

I must have missed the part in the ransom note about going to the airport. I thought they claimed to have JonBenet in their possession and be watching the Ramseys and waiting til it was time to contact them so they could frisk John Ramsey when he paid the laughably puny ransom. What does FF mean?

Why would they fly with a dead 6 yr old? They didn't want the ransom they claimed was their purpose in "kidnapping" her, so why not just ditch her body somewhere and hop on that plane? Oh, wait, they did ditch her body somewhere...in the basement. Which brings me back to - why even bother at all to sit and write that long ransom note? Just to throw police off? How could the perp be positive that the police would consider this a kidnapping and stop there and not search the house and find the dead child right away? Why weren't the Ramseys in the least bit concerned about the threats in the note about JonBenet being beheaded if they called police? They not only called police and failed to mention the decapitation threat against their daughter completely, they called over five other people - again, with absolutely NO concern that that would cause the kidnappers to cut off their daughter's head. Either they knew the ransom note was bogus, or they didn't care if their daughter's head was cut off. I don't buy that crap about being in a tizy and not thinking straight. Not thinking straight means their daughter's death, and they had to know it.

There was never any kidnapping, Hold/hat. That ransom note should not be taken at face value as it is all a series of lies.

 

[txsvicki]

I believe that the murder was probably premeditated no matter who did it. The kidnapping was not well planned, there was not enough materials used for gagging or binding, there was no need to go out through the basement, and no simple prewritten note prepared. If a sexual predator only, then why write a ransom note and let there be such overkill with the head injury even though there's no signs of a struggle or much restraints to the body. Why would it even have been necessary and there was nothing in the basement room to have hit JonBenet with at the very end of the attack. The same reasoning goes for the family. Why not stage a plain old kidnapping. Why the garrotting with the broken paint brush and a sexual assault. Seems like the head injury and the sexual assault were what was trying to be covered up by someone who either was family or knew the family and was trying to keep JonBenet from telling something.

 

[BlueCrab]

There was no intruder. The Ramseys wouldn't be covering up by lying their heads off, obfuscating at every opportunity, and flatly refusing to cooperate with the investigators, all in order to protect an intruder. They would cover up ONLY if a family member was directly involved in the crime.

However, the missing cord and tape (not to mention the missing nine pages from the notepad, the missing tip of the paint brush handle, the missing stun gun, the missing size 6 panties she had to have been wearing before being redressed in size 12/14 panties after death, the missing red pen, and the missing wipe-down cloth) point to a fifth person in the house that night. The missing crime scene items went out of the house when that fifth person walked out of the house in the early morning hours prior to the 911 call at 5:52 AM.

JonBenet had an erotic asphyxiation device wrapped around her neck. Therefore, the fifth person was likely there to participate in a late night erotic asphyxiation session with JonBenet and a male Ramsey. The missing cord and tape are items commonly used in EA and AEA and were likey brought to the house by the accomplice for this purpose. An accidental strangulation changed the sexual encounter into a murder.

In other words, at least one male Ramsey was involved in this murder, but there was also an accomplice who had been invited into the house that night. IMO the missing items of evidence disappeared with the accomplice.

BlueCrab

 

[why_nutt]

It doesn't take much imagination to know that on the early morning of the 26th, there's probably only a few dozen cars in the neighborhood that are on the road. Do you think JBR's killers are going to take her body in the car with them? Isn't a dead 6 year old hard to explain to police officers who pulled you over after hearing about a child murder or kidnapping in the neighborhood?

In the FF scenario, the perps are heading to the international airport. That's another place where it would be hard for them to explain a dead 6 year old in the luggage.

The fact that JBR was left in the house is a no-brainer in the FF scenario.

Hmm, now let us consider this.

JonBenet is dead at about one in the morning. A supposed killer in a car loads her body into the car. There is no magic alarm that goes off at police headquarters at that hour which says, "Start looking for a dead girl in all of the cars on the road."

John and Patsy wake up at 5:30. The killer has had four and a half hours to get out of Boulder. At 60 miles an hour minimum, that can put the killer anywhere outside of a radius 270 miles away from Boulder before the criminal investigation even begins.

I want you to tell me how, with that much square mileage to play with at minimum, an intruder is going to be soooooooo veeerrrryyyyy frightened of being caught by police who are primarily checking out an area of approximately 28 square miles (Boulder itself). You think it is realistic that JonBenet's body was left behind in her own house because someone driving a car early on a Thursday morning 270 miles away from Boulder, in Nebraska, or Texas, or New Mexico, or Kansas, or Arizona, or Utah, or other surrounding states, would have been afraid that the body he was prepared to dump in the desert or the mountains would have been compellingly detectable in his car based on reports of a girl kidnapped in Boulder? By what mechanism do you attribute incompetence to the Boulder Police Department on the one hand, while on the other consider them such known marvels of detection that an intruder would be scared out of his wits at the risk of a Boulder police officer even glancing his way, thus compelling our killer to minimize that risk by leaving JonBenet's body in her own house, while he himself was required to leave? What would cause you to think that an intruder-killer would be worried about having a dead body, but not worried about being pulled over for driving erratically while on an adrenaline high and being covered in sweat from a steamy basement on a freezing cold morning?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There was never any kidnapping, Hold/hat. That ransom note should not be taken at face value as it is all a series of lies.

That the RN is 'all a series of lies' is an assumption. Probably its a mix of truth and lies. The kidnapping was IMO a lie, to cause the police/parents to search the neighborhood for a 6 year old with abductors, instead of searching the house for the missing daughter. This ruse IMO worked, since the police actually never found JBR. JR did. Im sure the police were looking for her in the neighborhood during that seven hours. The fact that the RN was placed on the stairs, with JBR in the most remote place in the house, should've clued you in to the main purpose for the note: throw off the police. Its evident it did.

The rest of the RN, including the 'we respect your business but not the country that it serves' and 'you're not the only fat cat so don't think that killing will be difficult' are IMO more truth than lie. It shows the author admits an interest in killing over and above that which is related to kidnapping.

BTW, to say that the 'country that it serves' is the US is also an assumption, unless JR's business 'served' exclusively this country. I'm sure JR's business served other countries besides the US.

 

[Voice of Reason]

The FF probably used the RN to buy time to get out of the neighborhood. The police would be looking for a 6 year old girl.

yes, but he/she could have done that in a bit less than 3 pages. if you think that he/she planned so much by bringing his own tape and cord, then i would guess that you think the whole phoney kidnapping was a part of the plan. i'll buy that for sake of argument.

now, look at what happened: the perp wrote a 3 page ransom note once inside the house? that's not careful planning at all. that's a highly risky activity, because (1) it takes a while; (2) it leaves behind potential forensic evidence; and (3) it leaves a huge handwriting sample.

 

[deanws]

Exactly, this was never a kidnapping, or they would taken JonBenet with them, dead or not. You can still ransom the body. If that's what this was about, then why didn't they do that? Because it was never a kidnapping. You don't stop to molest and strangle the child you're kidnapping in her own house. They had to have had a "safe place" to keep her until they collected the ransom, why not do the dirty business there? And what kidnapper doesn't come with their own note?

Exactly Nuisance! Good post.

 

[trixie]

yes, but he/she could have done that in a bit less than 3 pages. if you think that he/she planned so much by bringing his own tape and cord, then i would guess that you think the whole phoney kidnapping was a part of the plan. i'll buy that for sake of argument.

now, look at what happened: the perp wrote a 3 page ransom note once inside the house? that's not careful planning at all. that's a highly risky activity, because (1) it takes a while; (2) it leaves behind potential forensic evidence; and (3) it leaves a huge handwriting sample.

Patsy wrote the note with the knowlege that Jonbenet was dead in the basement. She had to write in there "whatever would get Jonbenet killed by her kidnappers." That's why there are so many "she dies" in that note. Patsy had to explain the dead body in the basement. So she purposely did everything the note (that she wrote) told her not to do. In my opinion, it seems in her way of thinking, that would explain why Jonbenet is dead in the basement. She disobeyed the note, or to put it another way, she set herself up with instructions and then purposely disobeyed them so that Jonbenet would end up dead. IMO, of course.

 

[Zman]

Patsy wrote the note with the knowlege that Jonbenet was dead in the basement. She had to write in there "whatever would get Jonbenet killed by her kidnappers." That's why there are so many "she dies" in that note. Patsy had to explain the dead body in the basement. So she purposely did everything the note (that she wrote) told her not to do. In my opinion, it seems in her way of thinking, that would explain why Jonbenet is dead in the basement. She disobeyed the note, or to put it another way, she set herself up with instructions and then purposely disobeyed them so that Jonbenet would end up dead. IMO, of course.

So the kidnappers were in the basement that morning?

If PR or JR wrote this RN which includes so many detailed instructions then they would have put them in there for a reason.
Now the only reason to add such horrible threats to JBR is to make sure they had a reason NOT to call the police. Which they disregarded.
The RN went to great lengths to let the R's know they were being watched. Which they ingnored.
The only reason to include a any perticular time is to use it for their advantage. Which they also ignored.
Why write such things and then disregard them?
The age old questions.
Why change the word deliver to pick-up in a meaningless fake RN. If they know JBR's in the basement why does it matter?

 

[Nuisanceposter]

They wrote that note they way they did for two reasons - one, they had no idea what a ransom note should say, and two, Patsy is completely over the top at all times. Drama queen extraordinaire. I don't see how anyone can read that ransom note and not see immediately that Patsy wrote it. making it even more obvious is the way the Ramseys felt no need whatsoever to take it seriously, calling police, calling friends over, sending Burke to the Whites'...

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

They wrote that note they way they did for two reasons - one, they had no idea what a ransom note should say, and two, Patsy is completely over the top at all times. Drama queen extraordinaire. I don't see how anyone can read that ransom note and not see immediately that Patsy wrote it. making it even more obvious is the way the Ramseys felt no need whatsoever to take it seriously, calling police, calling friends over, sending Burke to the Whites'...

I don't know how anyone can read the ransom note and not see a foreigner wrote it using only fair English as 2nd language skills. The author was in self-correction mode and yet didn't recognize 'bussiness' was misspelled. PR didn't write the note. Check the letter 'f' in 'follow' (1st paragraph) and you'll see its too ornate for an English writer, but fits right in with another alphabet.

Between the letter 'f' in follow, the misspelled 'bussiness', and an admission to be representing a foreign faction, you cant even get through the first paragraph without knowing it was a foreign author.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

you cant even get through the first paragraph without knowing it was a foreign author.

Yes, I can, and West Virginia isn't a foreign country. IMO, Patsy wrote that note. It's her handwriting and her style of speaking, right down to use of French words and accent marks and the misuse of "and hence". What about all of the other difficult words that weren't misspelled? And only non-English-speaking people use ornate lettering? Why did the Ramseys completely disregard the note as if they knew it was totally bogus? Why didn't they ransom the body? You want so desperately to believe the Ramseys didn't have anything to do with this, but logic does not support that, no matter how much you argue it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I can, and West Virginia isn't a foreign country. IMO, Patsy wrote that note. It's her handwriting and her style of speaking, right down to use of French words and accent marks and the misuse of "and hence". What about all of the other difficult words that weren't misspelled? And only non-English-speaking people use ornate lettering? Why did the Ramseys completely disregard the note as if they knew it was totally bogus? Why didn't they ransom the body? You want so desperately to believe the Ramseys didn't have anything to do with this, but logic does not support that, no matter how much you argue it.

I use logic and evidence, not just logic, to easily exclude any local from killing JBR.

The author didn't worry about leaving so much handwriting, because they knew they'd be out of the country, and their handwriting would not be subject to comparison. You'd have to be an idiot, which none of the R's are, to leave 3 pages of handwriting for FBI analysis.

Hows my logic?

 

[Zman]

I use logic and evidence, not just logic, to easily exclude any local from killing JBR.

The author didn't worry about leaving so much handwriting, because they knew they'd be out of the country, and their handwriting would not be subject to comparison. You'd have to be an idiot, which none of the R's are, to leave 3 pages of handwriting for FBI analysis.

Hows my logic?

Looks good to me.

 

[Karole28]

Logic would lead me to write with my non-dominant hand if I were in a situation where I felt a strong need to leave a written message I didn't want to be identified as mine.