The Pineapple

[Becba]

I have to say you and I think an awful lot alike! That is exactly what I think also. Since we're of the same opinion so far I have a question for you. Just exactly when do you think John KNEW, or do you think he was in on it from the start?

KNEW JonBenet was dead? I think he knew that night. I have too many guesses at what may have happened, but when it did happen I think the cover up began and it was decided everyone was in bed. That way no one could slip up on a detail they didn't want out.

 

[Brefie]

Funny, my wife would say the same thing about my memory.

Did you ever read L.A.'s deposistion regarding her lawsuit. She must say I don't remember, don't recall, don't know or I can't remember 35 times in what is a rather short interview when compared to PR's.

And to be honest I don't see why it matters. Nothing PR is "unsure" about seems to add up to a case closing shocker anyway.

Linda's depo regarding her lawsuit is hardly the same as your baby being found in the basement of your home. I would have to re read the interviews with PR to refresh my memory, but I remember reading them several times and shaking my head.

Perhaps if she hadn't avoided an interview for so long, she would have remembered more?

Just a thought.......

 

[trixie]

Well this is a problem I'm having. Did Patsy do all this by herself or was John in on it from the beginning? I'm thinking Patsy did it, all of it, while John was sleeping. And then when he read the note he KNEW Patsy had written it. He is her husband. He can't not see Patsy all over that note. We only have their word on what was discussed between them at that time, and no eyewitnesses. He may have confronted her and she may have denied involvement. What trips me up is the cord around the neck. I just can't see Patsy doing that part. But she must have?!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

mjak,

My guess is, based on the condition and location of the pineapple in the small intestine, JonBenet ate the pineapple about one hour before she died. JonBenet was in full rigor when carried upstairs from the basement at 1:05 PM on the 26th, which means she likely died approximately 12 hours prior, or 1:00 AM. This in turn suggests she ate the pineapple around midnight.

Other than the pineapple, there was no other food in JonBenet's stomach or small intestine, suggesting she hadn't eaten anything since the cracked crab meal she consumed at about 7:00 PM at the White's house. The cracked crab meal had been digested and was represented by soft green fecal matter in her large intestine.

The fingerprints of Patsy Ramsey and Burke Ramsey were found on the small bowl containing the pineapple left out all night on the breakfast room table. A giant over-sized serving spoon stuck out of the small bowl. Fingerprint test results from the spoon were never released. In addition to the bowl of pineapple, a waterglass containing a spent tea bag, and a large box of Kleenex napkins were on the table. Burke was the resident tea drinker. Fingerprint test results from the waterglass were never released.

The breakfast room table arrangement had four chairs, each of them assigned to a Ramsey. The pineapple was close to JonBenet's normal place at the table, and the waterglass was near Burke's normal place at the table.

BlueCrab

A "giant over-sized serving spoon" is inherently suspicious. Normally, a bowl of cut pineapple would be put in the refrigerator when finished, and normally a regular-sized spoon would be used.

 

[Voice of Reason]

To me, the setup of the oversized spoon, combined with the glass with the teabag is just screaming CHILDREN!!! No adult would do this, and Patsy said so herself in the interviews. I think it is perfectly normal for a youngster to grab the first spoon and glass he/she found and not be concerned with the size of spoon or type of glass.

So JB had a midnight snack! And Burke, with his prints on the bowl, in all likelihood joined her. Patsy's prints are from unloading the dishwasher, IMO. While the pineapple may have been eaten earlier than the midnight estimate, it makes most scientific sense if it was eaten around midnight due to its location in the stomach. Combine this with the first paragraph which suggests children sneaking downstairs for a snack, and the pineapple makes good sense.

As one more point on the pineapple, assuming Patsy and/or John did know about this, I think Becba's response above is right on. Patsy and/or John didn't realize this would be an issue. They gave their "JonBenet was asleep when we got home" story from day one. Once the pineapple came into the picture, they had a problem. But it was easier to stick to the story and plead ignorance. Besides, they got themselves an expert to tell everyone the pineapple could have been eaten some other time.

 

[KatherineQ]

Is it possible that JonBenet came downstairs in the night in search of a snack, ate some pineapple with her fingers out of the bowl, and encountered the murderer in the house?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

To me, the setup of the oversized spoon, combined with the glass with the teabag is just screaming CHILDREN!!! No adult would do this, and Patsy said so herself in the interviews. I think it is perfectly normal for a youngster to grab the first spoon and glass he/she found and not be concerned with the size of spoon or type of glass.

So JB had a midnight snack! And Burke, with his prints on the bowl, in all likelihood joined her. Patsy's prints are from unloading the dishwasher, IMO. While the pineapple may have been eaten earlier than the midnight estimate, it makes most scientific sense if it was eaten around midnight due to its location in the stomach. Combine this with the first paragraph which suggests children sneaking downstairs for a snack, and the pineapple makes good sense.

As one more point on the pineapple, assuming Patsy and/or John did know about this, I think Becba's response above is right on. Patsy and/or John didn't realize this would be an issue. They gave their "JonBenet was asleep when we got home" story from day one. Once the pineapple came into the picture, they had a problem. But it was easier to stick to the story and plead ignorance. Besides, they got themselves an expert to tell everyone the pineapple could have been eaten some other time.

It seems the oversize spoon, bowl without JBR's prints, and cut pineapple left out are telling a different story than that. Evidence suggests the pineapple was injested near the time she was murdered. Beyond that, we don't know where she injested the pineapple or under what circumstances.

 

[aussiesheila]

I have never been able to figure out when Jonbenet ate this pineapple.
I don't think a monster who has broken into the house to abuse and/or murder this child is going to take this child down to the kitchen and give her a snack.
If the Pineapple had been posined I would think forensics would have determined that by now. An innocent late night snack seems unlikely to me. As these children had probably been consuming christmas goodies all day and had a holiday dinner and desert. they went to bed late and with what I would imagne were fully stomachs. Not the night I would expect the kids to get up for a midnight snack. Were fingerprints ever found on the bowl or spoon? This is one of those things that tends to make me question the Ramseys description of what went on in that house that night. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

mjak

I don't think anyone broke into the house. I think a person was let in by Patsy who was expecting him around 11 pm after John had fallen asleep. I think that someone was Santa and he brought the fresh pineapple in a plastic bag and emptied it into the bowl that Patsy got out of the cupboard.

I think the whole purpose of the pineapple was that it was drugged and that JonBenet was supposed to eat some to render her more amenable to the planned sexual abuse session that was to follow, although Patsy did not know this. I expect she just thought how kind Santa was to bring around some of JonBenet's favorite food as a snack before the photo shoot she had been told was planned for the evening.

I think the drug was not detected in the body because the testing was not done until about 36 hours after death by which time the drug had been degraded.

 

[sandraladeda]

I think the whole purpose of the pineapple was that it was drugged and that JonBenet was supposed to eat some to render her more amenable to the planned sexual abuse session that was to follow, although Patsy did not know this. I expect she just thought how kind Santa was to bring around some of JonBenet's favorite food as a snack before the photo shoot she had been told was planned for the evening.

I think the drug was not detected in the body because the testing was not done until about 36 hours after death by which time the drug had been degraded.

Aussiesheila, do you have a link to evidence that such a drug as you mention would/could degrade in such a way as to be undetected? If this is the case, I would find it surprising that toxicolgy is done at autopsy at all.

imo

 

[capps]

I wonder if they could have gotten some kind of a time frame,from looking into the "spent tea bag"?
Tea drinkers may know ... have you ever left a spent tea bag on a tea plate? After several hours it looks drier,but still some what moist.If it should be left over night,it is dried up,withered and has almost a sepia hue to it.

At least it would break down the time frame some what? Any teabag experts around? lol.

 

[aussiesheila]

Aussiesheila, do you have a link to evidence that such a drug as you mention would/could degrade in such a way as to be undetected? If this is the case, I would find it surprising that toxicolgy is done at autopsy at all.

imo

No I don't have a link. It is just a theory.

But I imagine they would have to have a specific test for each drug they thought might be present and we don't even know what what drugs they did test for other than ethanol.

The autopsy just said no drugs detected, it doesn't say what ones were tested for. It is all very unsatisfactory.

But when all is said and done, I do not think you can deduce from what is stated in the autopsy, that there were definitely no drugs given to JonBenet in the hours immediately prior to her death.

Maybe I should be asking you what link you have as to what drugs were tested for in the autopsy. Which you probably can't because that information has not been made public as far as I know. We are just groping in the dark.

 

[capps]

Okay,nix my previous post about the spent tea bag. After re-reading the post I realized how ridiculous it was! It's just that we keep going round and round about the same things,I thought a fresh look at something else might help.

I know .... I was grasping at straws!

 

[tipper]

Okay,nix my previous post about the spent tea bag. After re-reading the post I realized how ridiculous it was! It's just that we keep going round and round about the same things,I thought a fresh look at something else might help.

I know .... I was grasping at straws!

I didn't think it was that crazy. Kind of like the melted icecream in the OJ case.

 

[capps]

I didn't think it was that crazy. Kind of like the melted icecream in the OJ case.

Thanks Tipper,you're too kind!
Hope your daughter is managing with her broken collarbone.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The oversize spoon, the bowl without JBR's prints, and the cut pineapple left out overnight could be explained away. You could minimize the significance of these items, with a claim that children naturally leave things out, and grab whatever spoon.

The oversize spoon, the bowl without JBR's prints, and the pineapple found in JBR's system injested at approximately the same time she was murdered, suggests she was fed pineapple by the perp.

So who left the bowl of cut pineapple out all night? JR, PR, or BR would've put it away, especially if involved in a coverup. The intruder perp wouldn't care if it was left out overnight.

 

[BlueCrab]

The oversize spoon, the bowl without JBR's prints, and the cut pineapple left out overnight could be explained away. You could minimize the significance of these items, with a claim that children naturally leave things out, and grab whatever spoon.

The oversize spoon, the bowl without JBR's prints, and the pineapple found in JBR's system injested at approximately the same time she was murdered, suggests she was fed pineapple by the perp.

So who left the bowl of cut pineapple out all night? JR, PR, or BR would've put it away, especially if involved in a coverup. The intruder perp wouldn't care if it was left out overnight.

Children leave perishables, such as pineapple, out all night, and they would likely grab any size spoon to dish it into a bowl. The "set up" on the breakfast room table has children written all over it.

The perp was not an intruder. JonBenet wouldn't have snacked on pineapple with an intruder.

 

[Nehemiah]

So who left the bowl of cut pineapple out all night? JR, PR, or BR would've put it away, especially if involved in a coverup.

Oh, really? I haven't gotten the impression that the Ramseys were diligent in the area of tidiness. Nothing wrong with that, when you have hired help, but I can definitely see all of them leaving things out, esp. on a night such as Christmas.

 

[aussiesheila]

The perp was not an intruder. JonBenet wouldn't have snacked on pineapple with an intruder.

I agree BlueCrab, I think the perp was an invitee, not an intruder. If the invitee was Santa or DP, JonBenet most likely would have been happy to snack with him.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I don't think Burke would have put the bowl of pineapple away if he had taken it out. We've heard before that Burke and JonBenet thought nothing of making a mess and walking away from it for someone else to clean up, such as Burke whittling in the house and leaving shavings wherever he was whittling. IMO, I'm not sure Patsy would have thought of it either...there was so much to get done, I'm sure they never gave a thought to the bowl of pineapple in the breakfast room when writing the note and staging the evidence.

 

[UKGuy]

Maybe there was no perpetrator or invitee!

Why should there be, what criminal act can you infer from the existence of a bowl of sliced pineapple?

Constructing towers of theory around the pineapple is fine but what is its relevance in the commission of any crime?

IMO the pineapple simply suggests that JonBenet was alive at a particular point, after arriving back from the White's, no more than that!

The relevance of that opinion is that it contradicts what both PR and JR state regarding JonBenet being placed in bed semi-dressed asleep!

Like the forensic evidence regarding the Garrote, the pineapple residue found in her stomach does not lie, or offer alternative theories.

So my take is that on returning from the White's who would most likely have the authority to sanction late nite snacking?

That person would probably be Patsy, I dont see Burke playing domestic maid to JonBenet, whilst Patsy is around.

So its possible that the pineapple snacking may be wholly innocent, e.g. unconnected with her death, in the direct sense, but given PR's and JR's prior statements regarding them placing JonBenet in bed, semi-dressed and asleep, what else can they say, even if it contradicts the forensic evidence!

This aspect, if you accept there is a contradiction, or inconsistency in the R's statements, has the potential to demonstrate how far back the staging goes, and also its influence on others.


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