The Pineapple

[Nehemiah]

So its possible that the pineapple snacking may be wholly innocent, e.g. unconnected with her death, in the direct sense, but given PR's and JR's prior statements regarding them placing JonBenet in bed, semi-dressed and asleep, what else can they say, even if it contradicts the forensic evidence!

I agree, UKG. I think that the Ramseys *needed* to have all gone to bed fairly soon after getting home so that they could avoid being questioned about it. That's not to say they are guilty of murder, but for some reason I see them as trying to shut down interrogation about that specific time frame. Maybe the only reason was to protect B from being grilled.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree, UKG. I think that the Ramseys *needed* to have all gone to bed fairly soon after getting home so that they could avoid being questioned about it. That's not to say they are guilty of murder, but for some reason I see them as trying to shut down interrogation about that specific time frame. Maybe the only reason was to protect B from being grilled.

Nehemiah,

You may be correct, but have you considered that the pineapple if you accept there is a contradiction, brings Burke into play now, since he must be knowingly colluding, even although he did state on returning from the White's that he did see JonBenet walk into the house? Which is consistent with the forensic evidence e.g. the pineapple.

So even if everything is innocent, which at that point in time, I think it was, Burke knew JonBenet was awake, dressed and snacking pineapple, he sipping tea, all a treat sanctioned by Patsy, did JR or PR have something stronger?

So if you think they were trying to protect B from being grilled, is that from a determination to avoid him being implicated by collusion, or legal silence to avoid any issues at all?

.

 

[narlacat]

QUOTE>>So even if everything is innocent, which at that point in time, I think it was, Burke knew JonBenet was awake, dressed and snacking pineapple, he sipping tea, all a treat sanctioned by Patsy, did JR or PR have something stronger?<<


That's what I think happened.
I think all the Ramsey's know JonBenet didnt go straight to bed that night.
I have seen it suggested that the Ramsey's were user's of recreational drugs, is that what you are suggesting here UKGuy?
Is there any sort of proof that that was the case?
I haven't read anything about any of their friends saying they were into using drugs.
They don't strike me as the types.

 

[tipper]

I wonder what Burke said about the pineapple?

I think she could have eaten it on the way out the door to the Whites. I haven't been able to find a whole lot on digestion times that takes into account all the variables of activity, excitement, other food consumed etc etc. I've found nothing on children's digestion times as compared to adults.

 

[ellen13]

I wonder what Burke said about the pineapple?

I think she could have eaten it on the way out the door to the Whites. I haven't been able to find a whole lot on digestion times that takes into account all the variables of activity, excitement, other food consumed etc etc. I've found nothing on children's digestion times as compared to adults.

The only thing is is that the last thing she "supposedly" ate was crab
and that was already in the digestive tract, whereas the pineapple was not. So, it was clear that the pineapple wasn't eaten before going to the White's house. If she wouldn't have eaten anything at the Whites, then we might have reason to question different digestion times. I think the pineapple had to have been eaten within hours of her death.
I would love to know if Burke said he ate pineapple that night.

 

[UKGuy]

The only thing is is that the last thing she "supposedly" ate was crab
and that was already in the digestive tract, whereas the pineapple was not. So, it was clear that the pineapple wasn't eaten before going to the White's house. If she wouldn't have eaten anything at the Whites, then we might have reason to question different digestion times. I think the pineapple had to have been eaten within hours of her death.
I would love to know if Burke said he ate pineapple that night.

ellen13,

Yes this is what makes the pineapple such compelling forensic evidence, e.g. the crab would be on top of the pineapple in her digestive tract.

Burke may not have eaten pineapple, I know I like pineapple and as a child would never mix drinking hot tea, with fresh fruit! Thats not to say he never had a portion whilst waiting for his tea!

.

 

[UKGuy]

QUOTE>>So even if everything is innocent, which at that point in time, I think it was, Burke knew JonBenet was awake, dressed and snacking pineapple, he sipping tea, all a treat sanctioned by Patsy, did JR or PR have something stronger?<<


That's what I think happened.
I think all the Ramsey's know JonBenet didnt go straight to bed that night.
I have seen it suggested that the Ramsey's were user's of recreational drugs, is that what you are suggesting here UKGuy?
Is there any sort of proof that that was the case?
I haven't read anything about any of their friends saying they were into using drugs.
They don't strike me as the types.

No more along the alcohol line. Recreational drugs are common among wealthy people, they can afford them and the privacy to indulge, if I was to suggest this as an element it would more likely be prescription drug abuse!


.

 

[BlueCrab]

I haven't been able to find a whole lot on digestion times that takes into account all the variables of activity, excitement, other food consumed etc etc. I've found nothing on children's digestion times as compared to adults.

tipper,

That's right. There's not much on the internet about digestion times. What little there is includes complete digestion times, from the swallowing of the food to its evacuation about 13 hours later (on average). But that alone doesn't help us determine when JonBenet ate the pineapple since it was only partially digested.

The pineapple was in the proximal part of JonBenet's small intestine, which means it had just moved from the stomach. Therefore, several years ago I researched everything available I could find on the internet and came up with my own estimate of the timeline between when she ate the pineapple and when she died -- one hour.

Here's the main reason why I picked one hour (there are other factors to take into consideration but this seems to be the most significant):

JonBenet ate the pineapple by itself. The autopsy revealed there was no other food in her stomach or the small intestine -- just the pineapple.

Thus, digestion of the pineapple would have been faster than if she had eaten other kinds of food with it. For instance, had she eaten a full meal with meat and vegetables, and ate the pineapple last as a dessert, it could have been 3 or 4 hours before the pineapple entered the small intestine. But from what I could understand from the different articles on the internet, a food such as fruit, if eaten by itself, would pass much quicker from the stomach to the small intestine. The articles, written by different experts, indirectly suggested times as little as 30 minutes to as much as 2 hours. Therefore, I arbitrarily selected one hour.

BlueCrab

 

[Camper]

I had posted this info a number of years ago.

Go to any good health food store and you can find a small card, much like a plastic credit card that gives digestion times for various types of foods.

Pineapple digestion time is 2 hours. Since the pineapple was fresh and not canned, it would contain digestive enzymes that would help with the digestion of other foods eaten at the same time as well.

Pork for example takes 12 hours to digest.

The reason a person gets sleepy after a large meal is that your digestion takes a great deal of your bodies energy to accomplish this. SO your energy supply is taxed and you are ready for a nap because you experience a loss of energy.

The two prints noted on the bowl of pineapple were PR's and B's. My thought is that PR prepped the pineapple and put in the refrigerator, and B's print on the bowl took it out of the refrigerator.

I donut believe that WE know how many prints were found on the bowl of pineapple of both PR and B, but only that those two prints were on the bowl. Help me out if I am remembering correctly on whether there is an official source for number count of total prints on the bowl.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Well one or two hours seems to be reasonably precise to me.

And of course we cannot be certain if the pineapple was prepared after returning or prior to leaving for the White's.

The evidence seems to suggest a rather innocent domestic snacking situation. Even to the exent its relevance was lost on the R's until confronted by the bowl and residue in her stomach, this along with no other indicators e.g. other cups, glasses, spoons, seems to indicate that only the R's were present at this point in time, I've termed this the Pineapple Interlude.

So theoretically if Patsy prepared the pineapple prior to leaving for the Whites, then possibly she was still alive at 12:00 hours, or thereabouts. If you assume it was prepared sometime after returning from the Whites, then the timeframe can move forward say to 1AM or 2AM.


.

 

[narlacat]

No more along the alcohol line. Recreational drugs are common among wealthy people, they can afford them and the privacy to indulge, if I was to suggest this as an element it would more likely be prescription drug abuse!


.

Ok.
I agree.
More likely prescription drugs than say cocaine.
Patsy would have been used to popping pills from when she was sick with the cancer.

 

[capps]

Ok.
I agree.
More likely prescription drugs than say cocaine.
Patsy would have been used to popping pills from when she was sick with the cancer.

So,where is this going? Is it being suggested that the Ramsey's came home Christmas night,John and Patsy filled up with prescription drugs,and then decided to kill JonBenet?

 

[BlueCrab]

Go to any good health food store and you can find a small card, much like a plastic credit card that gives digestion times for various types of foods.

Pineapple digestion time is 2 hours. Since the pineapple was fresh and not canned, it would contain digestive enzymes that would help with the digestion of other foods eaten at the same time as well.

Camper,

You missed my point.

The digestion times on those health cards are for complete digestion -- from the time of ingestion of the food to almost the time of evacuation of the waste matter. The times on the cards can't be correlated to the partial digestion of food due to death, as in the case of JonBenet.

The pineapple in JonBenet was found in the upper (beginning) of the small intestine. IOW it had recently moved from the stomach to the small intestine and had hardly begun to be digested when she died.

The small intestine is where most of the digestion takes place. The large intestines does some digesting but its important job is to remove the liquids. The stomach does some minor digesting, but its main function is to temporarily store and prepare the food before passing it on to the intestines for digestion.

The pineapple in JonBenet still had a long way to go when she died. Everyone has different length intestines, but the pineapple in JonBenet probably had at least 12' of the small intestine to travel and then about 6' of the large intestine to travel before being completely digested and evacuated.

Therefore, the cards you quote say it takes 2 hours to digest pineapple, but that means the complete digestion of the pineapple. JonBenet died before the pineapple hardly had a chance to begin to be digested, so that's why I estimated she died about 1 hour after eating the pineapple (and maybe even sooner).

BlueCrab

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Children leave perishables, such as pineapple, out all night, and they would likely grab any size spoon to dish it into a bowl. The "set up" on the breakfast room table has children written all over it.

The perp was not an intruder. JonBenet wouldn't have snacked on pineapple with an intruder.

Its interesting for me that 'normal childish activities' would be used to explain away anything that happened the same night, even the same hour, that JBR was murdered.

IMO the intruder perp would have a different 'set of priorities' and the pineapple left out is evidence of that. An intruder perp wouldn't care about that detail.

Depending on where you're from, pineapple left out overnight can be a big mess. Don't you think a perp is more likely to leave messes than a homemaker trying to cover up for a murder? If a homemaker covered up for a murder enough to get rid of the tape and cord, wouldn't they also put the pineapple back in the refrigerator?

 

[narlacat]

So,where is this going? Is it being suggested that the Ramsey's came home Christmas night,John and Patsy filled up with prescription drugs,and then decided to kill JonBenet?

I don't think it's going anywhere Capps.
And no, I don't think that was the suggestion.
I was replying to UKguy's post

QUOTE<<So even if everything is innocent, which at that point in time, I think it was, Burke knew JonBenet was awake, dressed and snacking pineapple, he sipping tea, all a treat sanctioned by Patsy, did JR or PR have something stronger?<<

I asked what he was suggesting 'the something stronger was' and that the Ramsey's didn't strike me as the type to get into recreational drugs such as cocaine and the like. Anyway, his reply is on page 2 if you want to read it.

 

[BlueCrab]

If a homemaker covered up for a murder enough to get rid of the tape and cord, wouldn't they also put the pineapple back in the refrigerator?

Holdontoyourhat,

The parents could have easily overlooked the bowl of pineapple sitting on the breakfast room table. The breakfast room is not in the kitchen. It's a separate room next to the kitchen. Most of the staging took place in the basement.

BlueCrab

 

[narlacat]

And in the dark.

 

[aussiesheila]

The only thing is is that the last thing she "supposedly" ate was crab
and that was already in the digestive tract, whereas the pineapple was not. So, it was clear that the pineapple wasn't eaten before going to the White's house. If she wouldn't have eaten anything at the Whites, then we might have reason to question different digestion times. I think the pineapple had to have been eaten within hours of her death.
I would love to know if Burke said he ate pineapple that night.

But ellen, the pineapple WAS in her digestive tract, just past her stomach in the small intestine and the coroner estimated she had eaten it about an hour before she died. I don't think he mentioned any crab, possibly because it was so far along the digestive tract that it was no longer recognisable.

I understand Burke was questioned but we have never heard anything about him having eaten any pineapple that night. Which is not to say that he didn't - you might choose to believe that he lied to the BPD and said he didn't eat any or that he admitted he ate some but the BPD have just not revealed it yet.

(EDIT) Whoops! Maybe it wasn't the coroner who estimated the 1 hour. Maybe it was that other authority, BlueCrab!

 

[ellen13]

But ellen, the pineapple WAS in her digestive tract, just past her stomach in the small intestine and the coroner estimated she had eaten it about an hour before she died. I don't think he mentioned any crab, possibly because it was so far along the digestive tract that it was no longer recognisable.

I understand Burke was questioned but we have never heard anything about him having eaten any pineapple that night. Which is not to say that he didn't - you might choose to believe that he lied to the BPD and said he didn't eat any or that he admitted he ate some but the BPD have just not revealed it yet.

(EDIT) Whoops! Maybe it wasn't the coroner who estimated the 1 hour. Maybe it was that other authority, BlueCrab!

I was just responding to what someone wrote about maybe JB had the
pineapple before she ate the crab. I'm staying the pineapple definitely came after the crab. and, yes you're right, it was in the digestive tract-my mistake.
I might be new to this case, but I am open-minded enough to hear from "all of you authorities" and make my own conclusions-LOL! And for the record, I think IMHO it was eaten within 2 hours before her death. I don't know if she ate crab or not, but she definitely ate pineapple that didn't have time to digest completely.

 

[janice]

Well this is a problem I'm having. Did Patsy do all this by herself or was John in on it from the beginning? I'm thinking Patsy did it, all of it, while John was sleeping. And then when he read the note he KNEW Patsy had written it. He is her husband. He can't not see Patsy all over that note. We only have their word on what was discussed between them at that time, and no eyewitnesses. He may have confronted her and she may have denied involvement. What trips me up is the cord around the neck. I just can't see Patsy doing that part. But she must have?!

The cord around the neck has always made me believe that John was in on it, but only the cover-up. The little girl was already dead when her father was awakened. I can't see Patsy doing that part either. (the cord)