No. As soon as the note suggested someone had my daughter I'd run to her room. Then I'd read the rest of the note. I would read the entire note before calling police.
The ransom note & Patsy Ramsey, letter by letter.
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No. As soon as the note suggested someone had my daughter I'd run to her room. Then I'd read the rest of the note. I would read the entire note before calling police.
You would have a very quick-moving mind. Most people who live in a safe place would not so quickly assume this note was real or that their daughter had been kidnapped by a "small foreign faction." But let's say that what you are saying is more common than I suspect -- let's say that most people would react as quickly as you. Even you seem to imply (correct me if I'm wrong) that you would take the note with you as you ran up to your daughter's room, no?
If you truly believed a small foreign faction had kidnapped your child, I find it hard to believe you would not be so concerned about her that you would not read at least a little further into a 3 page note, especially when you are about to receive the instructions about how to save her.
One more point: remember, Patsy believed this was a letter about BETH. In her version of events, she goes from thinking this is about Beth to believing her daughter has been kidnapped in a SPLIT second. This makes sense as a "story" she'd tell but it is a very strange narrative to believe in reality, since it's a "zero to 60" in a split second story -- she goes from total denial ("A small foreign faction has apparently dug up the remains of my stepdaughter who's been dead for three years") to total acceptance ("They took my daughter JonBenet!") -- not likely.
sandover,
Of course the important thing to bear in mind is that this is a staged crime-scene, which includes the ransom note, and Patsy's Oscar winning performance. So I would not read too much into it. People will vary in response to reading any RN, but when it comes to their children, I'll bet 99% want to check them first, before reading any further?
.
I might be overstating my own personal reaction, but I asked a friend who was not familiar with the case and he said as a parent of a little girl he would not believe the letter -- it was so ridiculous he'd not think that it was true. He'd be confused and concerned but not immediately think "This is real!"
I found this response fascinating because when looked at with fresh eyes, indeed such a note -- "small foreign faction" does indeed appear preposterous.
I asked someone else and they said that if they were to believe it, they'd certainly keep reading out of concern for their child, because if the child had indeed been taken you'd want to know how to save her. If the note were a joke and the child had not been taken, there would be no need to rush to the child's room.
In other words, only if you believed the note was telling the truth would you POSSIBLY rush to the child's room, but even in that case most parents would want to read what the kidnappers demand was out of concern for saving their child.
It's possible I'm overthinking this but I don't believe so. I believe objectively speaking, Patsy's response seems over the top and not the way a real mind would react -- slowly, battling denial and confusion, then absorbing concern and fear before acting to rush to the child's room.
sandover,
Yes, I reckon you might be overthinking, or as I might term it, abstracting too much.
Apart from what I'll bet everyone here might do, e.g. rush to check their child, reading the ransom note any further is not going to provide you with any further certitude.
Whereas immediately checking on child will notify you if it is going to be profitable to read the ransom note any further.
The overthinking is fine, but only if you consider the ransom note valid, that is today 2012, not the day JonBenet was allegedly abducted.
.
I can assure you I have a slow plodding mind, not a quick moving one. I would have read far enough to determine that my daughter was kidnapped. Then I'd have gone to her room to see if she was there. Then I'd check the bathroom and start calling out to her. I think I'd probably have the RN in my hands, with me, as I looked for my daughter.
Initially I'd have no thoughts about the the small foreign faction, I'd just know that I had a ransom note. Once I realized that my daughter really was missing I'd read the rest of the note. My 911 call would have been very different, asking the police to come on the QT.
I don't think my reaction would be at all unusual.
I agree that it strains credulity to believe that the RN was about Beth. I suppose a dead body could be held for ransom but it wouldn't be one's first thought. That part is just more Ramsey nonsense.
I don't think most people would read the entire note then deliberate as to the truth of the note. Even if one thought it was some sick joke it would be natural to check on your child anyway. I can't imagine anyone reading the note then going about their morning routine, unconcerned about their child. I also think it's unlikely anyone would read the whole 2 and 1/2 pages before checking on their child. I'd read enough to realize it's a RN, go looking for the child, then when I couldn't find the child I'd read the rest of "War and Peace".
sandover,
Yes the Beth question is interesting. It could be psychological dissasociation or plain old Ramsey rationale, posing as a history preamble.
It looks like Patsy is inventing stuff, simply because she cannot tell the truth.
.
txsvicki
Active Member
Could Patsy have meant that she had the thought that Beth's remains had been stolen from the gravesite? That would really be a bizarre thing to come up with.
Then why would the note say "she dies" if she was already dead? No sense threatening to kill her, right?
We must not forget the most important thing- that the note is NOT a real ransom note. It was written by Patsy, so it is pointless to try to determine what she thought when she read it, because that just didn't happen.
qtc
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then "daughter in our
3 possession, she is safe from harm, your daughter
4 in 1997," then when I realized this was now,
5 this was new material, this was not something --
6 you know, papers from that had to do with Beth. <-- snipped
But it wasnt 1997, it was 1996.
I wonder what she was going to say on line 5 "this was not something"..then she switches with "you know", and ends the sentence with something that doesnt sound right "papers from that had to do with Beth." Or am I reading it wrong. It just sounds weird when I read it out loud.
I think is weird that she never picked it up. If I seen a not laying on the floor, I would pick it up and begin to read it, not bend over and read it while it is still on the floor.
3 possession, she is safe from harm, your daughter
4 in 1997," then when I realized this was now,
5 this was new material, this was not something --
6 you know, papers from that had to do with Beth. <-- snipped
But it wasnt 1997, it was 1996.
I wonder what she was going to say on line 5 "this was not something"..then she switches with "you know", and ends the sentence with something that doesnt sound right "papers from that had to do with Beth." Or am I reading it wrong. It just sounds weird when I read it out loud.
I think is weird that she never picked it up. If I seen a not laying on the floor, I would pick it up and begin to read it, not bend over and read it while it is still on the floor.
Yes, she claims she first stepped over the note coming down, then stepped over the note running up. This makes no sense (was it said to explain why there were no significant wrinkles on the note as one would expect had one stepped on it or carried it while running up stairs in a frenzy?). Neither does it make sense that at the very least she would not take the note up the stairs with her to keep reading as she went to her daughter's room (the "small foreign faction" was about to instruct her about how to save her daughter!).
The "1997" refers to language in the note about her daughter seeing "1997" -- actually very similar to Patsy's Christmas note where she writes about Burke "seeing" the orthodontist in 1997 and other language around 1997 as well...
What is also extraordinary, of course, is that she goes from thinking this is about Beth to thinking this is about JonBenet so quickly. They are such different thoughts. If she acted as quickly as she claims the transition is not very convincing. If she did believe these were somehow "papers that had to do with Beth," keep in mind that the beginning of the note refers to a "small foreign faction" almost immediately.
Why would Patsy think a "small foreign faction" had something to do with Beth back when she died? If these were "papers that had to do with Beth" that means that somehow she thought a small foreign faction was writing to her about Beth either now or back then?
Nonsense.
http://seamusoriley.blogspot.ca/2012/05/jonbenet-ramsey-case-comparison.html
Jonbenet Ramsey Case Comparison
Saturday, May 05, 2012
Are there similarities between the case of murdered 6 year old Jonbenet Ramsey and the disappearance of Isbael Celis? ....
Note some similarities in responding to questions:
Jonbenet Ramsey Case Comparison
Saturday, May 05, 2012
Are there similarities between the case of murdered 6 year old Jonbenet Ramsey and the disappearance of Isbael Celis? ....
Note some similarities in responding to questions:
qtc,
Once you read or hear Patsy enough, you can begin to see where she rambles on hoping she says enough to confuse you, or she invokes amnesia when its known she should know the facts in question, her other tactic is simply to invent stuff, then wrap it in a Ramseyesque lifestyle grammar, assuming this elitist spin will impress you. Some of this appears in the Ransom Note. Check the Bloomingdales Size-12 issue or the Breakfast Bar pineapple snack, and her response to questions about the possibility that John may have been abusing JonBenet, i.e. Nedra Paugh.
There is the outside possibility that the Beth issue was raised ahead of the possibility of John and Patsy accussing each other over the death of JonBenet. So Patsy may have been pointing indirectly at John early on in proceedings. e.g. this happened before you know?
.
The interesting points you raise actually give a lot of logic to why she introduces "Beth" in this statement. After one/both of them had murdered JB, they MUST have talked about Beth -- if you now have two daughters die before you, there is no way the second daughter's death is not going to reawaken memories of the other daughter. So if part of their madness that night had them in pain about JB being "the second" daughter to die, when later lying to the authorities it would make sense that Patsy would say that the ransom note (written after they murdered JB) made her think of Beth. This is indirect proof that SHE HAD JUST BEEN THINKING ABOUT BETH right before "discovering" the ransom note.
Something I've found interesting is that if you look at Patsy's first interview (with Steve Thomas) she "rushes" through certain parts of the questioning as if to convey "This is too traumatic for me and I just have to get through it." It was a very effective tactic and they never found a way to really interrogate her in that all important first interview.
sandover,
Sure, I can hear John saying Not again, he must have known questions would be asked, so he had to have answers ready and so brief Patsy, wrt JonBenet. The abuse question did arise and Patsy and John must have expected it to be raised. e.g. Patsy's non answer: Nedra Paugh.
Then later in interview when she was told JonBenet had been abused both acutely and chronically, she did not seem surprised.
If JR did abuse and/or accidentally injure JonBenet then can you imagine what words Patsy might throw John's way, along with reference to Beth?
.
marie-chantal
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Hello! I received a PM from a member asking me to check out this letter. I'm a verified professional member. I am a doctoral student in foreign language/ESL education, and I have a master's degree in bilingual/multicultural education. I've also been an ESL teacher for many years. I love to analyze language use, grammar and vocabulary. I'm not a handwriting expert, and I have no training in anything related to the specific skill of handwriting.
I only know bits and pieces about this case. I haven't followed it since the initial media exposure back in the 90s when news of this case broke. I don't have any theories or beliefs about what happened and who committed the crime (in other words: I'm a neutral outsider-I come in peace, lol).
I've been looking at the ransom note, and these are the things that have really jumped out at me:
Firstly, this was written by a native speaker of English with at least a high-school education, and most likely a college education. The writer is someone who is fairly well-read. The writer is also someone who is middle-aged, definitely not younger (as in early 30s and younger).
The funny thing about this letter, is the use of idiomatic expressions. For example, "if you want her to see 1997" is an idiomatic expression. They did use one idiomatic phrase that caught my eye, "Follow our instructions to the letter". I'm not familiar with the phrase being used like this, except when used in "follow the law to the letter". Usually it's "to the T"; but a non-native speaker most likely wouldn't botch the phrase by substituting 'letter' for 't'; they would most likely say something like, "follow our instructions of the t", "follow our instructions like a t" , or even "follow our instructions to the v" (or any other letter that rhymes with T). A non-native speaker, or a native speaker who was of a younger generation also wouldn't necessarily know something like "follow it to the letter".
Which brings me to another point-whomever wrote this letter has spent a lot of time watching older crime dramas on TV. They use some cliches like, "Listen carefully" (how many times have we heard this phrase used in movies where someone is making a ransom demand by phone?), attache case (another stand-by in crime dramas), and "brown paper bag". Seriously? If a child hadn't been murdered in real life, this letter would be comical.
Whomever wrote this letter is old enough to have watched a lot of American crime dramas in the 60s and 70s. They most likely watched them as a youth, since all of these cliches are so embedded in their writing. Educated people who watch these things as adults don't tend to be so affected by these types of shows, and they certainly don't start incorporating phrases into their vocabulary. It looks to me like the writer wrote this in a hurry, and just started using whatever language immediately popped into their mind. They didn't think this through, which is why we see so many cliches in this letter.
Like I said earlier, I don't have any handwriting analysis skills, but to me, the writing looks shaky, which kind of makes sense if you look at the silly cliches. The letter was written quickly, IMO. I think a true ransom note would have been typed out-not handwritten. Even in the late 90s, most people knew about DNA. Handwriting a letter like this was a huge risk to take-unless time was of the essence, and the writer felt that this was their only option.
This is purely my opinion-please don't think that I'm trying to tell everyone here what to think. If there are any other docs that anyone here would like for me to look at, please let me know.
I only know bits and pieces about this case. I haven't followed it since the initial media exposure back in the 90s when news of this case broke. I don't have any theories or beliefs about what happened and who committed the crime (in other words: I'm a neutral outsider-I come in peace, lol).
I've been looking at the ransom note, and these are the things that have really jumped out at me:
Firstly, this was written by a native speaker of English with at least a high-school education, and most likely a college education. The writer is someone who is fairly well-read. The writer is also someone who is middle-aged, definitely not younger (as in early 30s and younger).
The funny thing about this letter, is the use of idiomatic expressions. For example, "if you want her to see 1997" is an idiomatic expression. They did use one idiomatic phrase that caught my eye, "Follow our instructions to the letter". I'm not familiar with the phrase being used like this, except when used in "follow the law to the letter". Usually it's "to the T"; but a non-native speaker most likely wouldn't botch the phrase by substituting 'letter' for 't'; they would most likely say something like, "follow our instructions of the t", "follow our instructions like a t" , or even "follow our instructions to the v" (or any other letter that rhymes with T). A non-native speaker, or a native speaker who was of a younger generation also wouldn't necessarily know something like "follow it to the letter".
Which brings me to another point-whomever wrote this letter has spent a lot of time watching older crime dramas on TV. They use some cliches like, "Listen carefully" (how many times have we heard this phrase used in movies where someone is making a ransom demand by phone?), attache case (another stand-by in crime dramas), and "brown paper bag". Seriously? If a child hadn't been murdered in real life, this letter would be comical.
Whomever wrote this letter is old enough to have watched a lot of American crime dramas in the 60s and 70s. They most likely watched them as a youth, since all of these cliches are so embedded in their writing. Educated people who watch these things as adults don't tend to be so affected by these types of shows, and they certainly don't start incorporating phrases into their vocabulary. It looks to me like the writer wrote this in a hurry, and just started using whatever language immediately popped into their mind. They didn't think this through, which is why we see so many cliches in this letter.
Like I said earlier, I don't have any handwriting analysis skills, but to me, the writing looks shaky, which kind of makes sense if you look at the silly cliches. The letter was written quickly, IMO. I think a true ransom note would have been typed out-not handwritten. Even in the late 90s, most people knew about DNA. Handwriting a letter like this was a huge risk to take-unless time was of the essence, and the writer felt that this was their only option.
This is purely my opinion-please don't think that I'm trying to tell everyone here what to think. If there are any other docs that anyone here would like for me to look at, please let me know.
Whaleshark
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Marie-Chantal,
Thanks for that opinion/analysis. I would agree with what you've said (I'm not an expert-in-training though, but the language and wording, and knowledge of certain things) -- that 'profile' make perfect sense to me.
Would you mind answering another request?
...Perfect timing/topic, as I just posted on this in another thread....
If you would, please read this note below as compared to the Ransom Letter and tell us what you think, or if you prefer, respond in a private note or whatever. Interested in your thoughts on comparisons in this writing style to the writing style of the Ransom Letter:
JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY 1996 CHRISTMAS NEWSLETTER
Dear Friends & Family,
It's been another busy year at the Ramsey household. Can't believe it's almost over and time to start again!
Melinda (24) graduated from Medical College of Georgia and is working in Pediatric ICU at Kennestone Hospital in Atlanta. John Andrew (20) is a Sophomore at the University of Colorado.
Burke is a busy fourth grader where he really shines in math and spelling. He played flag football this fall and is currently on a basketball binge! His little league team was #1. He's lost just about all of his baby teeth, so I'm sure we'll be seeing the orthodontist in 1997!
JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named "America's Royale Tiny Miss" last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report!
John is always on the go travelling hither and yon. Access recently celebrated its one billion $$ mark in sales, so he's pretty happy! He and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to Mackinac Island yacht race in July, but had to pull out mid way due to lack of wind. (Can you believe that?) But, his real love is the new 'old looking' boat, Grand Season, which he spent months designing.
I spend most of my 'free time' working in the school and doing volunteer work. The Charlevoix house was on the home tour in July and will likely appear in one of the Better Homes & Gardens publications in 1997. On a recent trip to NYC, my friend and I appeared amid the throng of fans on the TODAY show. Al Roker & Bryant actually talked to us and we were on camera for a few fleeting moments!
We are all enjoying continued good health and look forward to seeing you in 1997! One final note ... thank you to all my 'friends' and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest, most outrageous 40th birthday bash I've ever had! We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney Big Red Boat over the new year!
Merry Christmas and much love,
The Ramseys
___
Looking forward to your response....
Thanks for that opinion/analysis. I would agree with what you've said (I'm not an expert-in-training though, but the language and wording, and knowledge of certain things) -- that 'profile' make perfect sense to me.
Would you mind answering another request?
...Perfect timing/topic, as I just posted on this in another thread....
If you would, please read this note below as compared to the Ransom Letter and tell us what you think, or if you prefer, respond in a private note or whatever. Interested in your thoughts on comparisons in this writing style to the writing style of the Ransom Letter:
JOHN AND PATSY RAMSEY 1996 CHRISTMAS NEWSLETTER
Dear Friends & Family,
It's been another busy year at the Ramsey household. Can't believe it's almost over and time to start again!
Melinda (24) graduated from Medical College of Georgia and is working in Pediatric ICU at Kennestone Hospital in Atlanta. John Andrew (20) is a Sophomore at the University of Colorado.
Burke is a busy fourth grader where he really shines in math and spelling. He played flag football this fall and is currently on a basketball binge! His little league team was #1. He's lost just about all of his baby teeth, so I'm sure we'll be seeing the orthodontist in 1997!
JonBenet is enjoying her first year in 'real school.' Kindergarten in the Core Knowledge program is fast paced and five full days a week. She has already been moved ahead to first grade math. She continues to enjoy participating in talent and modeling pageants. She was named "America's Royale Tiny Miss" last summer and is Colorado's Little Miss Christmas. Her teacher says she is so outgoing that she will never have trouble delivering an oral book report!
John is always on the go travelling hither and yon. Access recently celebrated its one billion $$ mark in sales, so he's pretty happy! He and his crew were underway in the Port Huron to Mackinac Island yacht race in July, but had to pull out mid way due to lack of wind. (Can you believe that?) But, his real love is the new 'old looking' boat, Grand Season, which he spent months designing.
I spend most of my 'free time' working in the school and doing volunteer work. The Charlevoix house was on the home tour in July and will likely appear in one of the Better Homes & Gardens publications in 1997. On a recent trip to NYC, my friend and I appeared amid the throng of fans on the TODAY show. Al Roker & Bryant actually talked to us and we were on camera for a few fleeting moments!
We are all enjoying continued good health and look forward to seeing you in 1997! One final note ... thank you to all my 'friends' and my dear husband for surprising me with the biggest, most outrageous 40th birthday bash I've ever had! We'll be spending my actual birthday on the Disney Big Red Boat over the new year!
Merry Christmas and much love,
The Ramseys
___
Looking forward to your response....
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