The wait for closing arguments discussion thread

[Flowercb]

Does anyone know if Rafferty's mom was in the court today since she didn't have to testify?

I wonder if she has washed her hands of her son. MOO

 

[Ardy]

The witness said TLM went in the front doors.......right by the school offices on the inside I would imagine.

The witness didn't just see TLM walk in the door. She saw her walk by the buses and then into the front door........so the witnessed watched her all the way in.

IMO there is no reason to dispute the witness observations.

The Crown made a feeble attempt at it....perhaps to justify why they didn't call her as a witness, but I think the jury will believe her testimony as truthful.

RS was surprised and knew nothing about the witness. He asked why the Crown didn't call her to testify as well.

When RS said the trial was full of lies on the inside of the courtroom and the outside, he wasn't talking about the defense questions.......IMO.

The defense only called one witness.........and RS didn't question her testimony.

RS has previously said he didn't mind Derstine's questions if it brought out the truth.

So that leaves................Crown witnesses.

JMO..................

 

[otto]

Just heard something funny on the news ... 'Derstine has pleaded with the jury throughout the 9 weeks to reserve judgment until they have heard his version of events .. turns out, his version of events is very short'.

 

[gardenia]

I wondered if that was a slip as well. It must be difficult to do these daily press interviews on the spot and keep certain info tight lipped. RS is holding up pretty good and keeping VS's name in the headlines. I did notice who was just over his right shoulder in the background, and wondered why no media was in that area.

... are you able to say "who" was just over his shoulder? thanks flipflop.

 

[Sillybilly]

If the defence theory is that MR believed TLM was babysitting, then this morning's witness strengthens that argument. If the witness stated from the beginning (which it appears she did) that the white coat woman entered the school, then it sounds like something a babysitter, rather than a kidnapper, would do. MR could say that he didn't want to interfere with the babysitting that TLM was doing, so he stayed out of it.

<rsbm>

IF TLM entered the school and MTR was parked up the street, not seeing her enter the school, how does this witness's testimony strengthen the defence/ MTR's story that he believed she was babysitting?

 

[Snoopster]

Good old reasonable doubt.

Doubt? yes.

Reasonable doubt? no.

JMO

 

[Sillybilly]

Does anyone know if Rafferty's mom was in the court today since she didn't have to testify?

I wonder if she has washed her hands of her son. MOO

It was tweeted earlier today that none of MTR's family members were present. It is my understanding they have not attended any day of the trial.

 

[roseofsharon]

Where is this video of OSPS? I don't believe I've ever seen it.

I looked at it again on UTube, but I would like to see it in its entirety, they way it was when it first was released.

It is the tape of TLM walking with TS at the school.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Loved ones hear the hard cold facts

Interesting read RE: when Tori's Family found out from LE what happened to Tori

God Bless Tori's twin Daryn
Since April 30, McDonald has wrestled with how and when to tell her son and Tori's beloved brother Daryn about the girl's last hours. He was not at the hotel or the courtroom in April.

"If I had my choice I would never tell him what happened," she says during an interview in the summer.

But Daryn is a smart boy and he will read in newspapers that McClintic bought a hammer, and garbage bags, McDonald says.

"I know he will figure it out. I know."

Just a few days ago, with a grief counsellor at hand, McDonald finally told Daryn how his sister died. She had to explain the meaning of "multiple force blunt trauma" - the official words of the autopsy.

In words meant to comfort and warn, she told Daryn they will never know the truth of what happened that day.

Everyone involved will tell the story to make themselves look better, McDonald told him.

"I told him only one person will ever know the truth of what happened, and that is Tori."


read.http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/12/08/16474986.html

 

[Sillybilly]

Doubt? yes.

Reasonable doubt? no.

JMO

And just a reminder that "reasonable doubt" does not equate to "beyond the shadow of a doubt".

 

[otto]

<rsbm>

IF TLM entered the school and MTR was parked up the street, not seeing her enter the school, how does this witness's testimony strengthen the defence/ MTR's story that he believed she was babysitting?

Not sure, but I'm guessing the theory will be that MR knew TLM entered the school to collect Victoria.

 

[Oldsoul2]

What I'm trying to understand is why Rodney keeps saying this. Either he has already heard certain testimony that the ban has prevented us from hearing thus far and is watching the defense imply that MR wasn't responsible or this evidence has not been permitted in court for whatever reason. Why is he not satisfied with TLM's account on what happened that day. He has definitely not heard a word from MR, as we haven't, so what does he know that he is stating "we will never know the truth" Is it possible that he thinks, as I have since the start, that Tori was taken for profit and both TLM and MR are covering it so people won't come and kill them? He was a pimp and that testimony floored me because that motif would make total sense and the girl that testified to that, did it WILLINGLY for a reason. He keeps talking about all the lies, which tells me he does not believe fully TLM's account of the events of April 8th to which he can't voice for whatever reason.

 

[otto]

It was tweeted earlier today that none of MTR's family members were present. It is my understanding they have not attended any day of the trial.

They're probably disgusted.

 

[matou]

If the kids get out at 3:20 pm, how did she see TLM and Tori at 3:32 ish on Fyfe? She would have seen the Honda since it passed by at 3:30. The cars go uphill on Fyfe and she could have seen that car turn in to the parking lot, IMO. JMO

 

[crazyladi]

I can't say I am waiting to cast my opinion because no matter if derstine claims that his client wasn't aware it was a kidnapping, drug debt, that ended up in murder ( which I highly doubt because no one can be that dumb) he still never went to the police. He destroyed and/or hid evidence and he knew everyone was looking for that child.

He deserves life nothing less.

It is inexcusable and he should have done the right thing but because he played an active role how could he?

I really don't think that the jury will care about the Necro music, eoa, babysitting etc because nothing that has been said showed him to have any remorse.

Derstine can throw all that stuff on the table and even her supposedly going inside the school it really does not matter, the jury knows she confessed to the crime, is serving a life sentence and so if that is derstines closing arguments I am certain this will not be a hung jury or an acquittal he will be charged and he will go to jail for participating in all three charges that he has been accused of.

I have no doubt in my mind that Tori Stafford will get justice!

 

[crazyladi]

I can't say I am waiting to cast my opinion because no matter if derstine claims that his client wasn't aware it was a kidnapping, drug debt, that ended up in murder ( which I highly doubt because no one can be that dumb) he still never went to the police. He destroyed and/or hid evidence and he knew everyone was looking for that child.

He deserves life nothing less.

It is inexcusable and he should have done the right thing but because he played an active role how could he?

I really don't think that the jury will care about the Necro music, eoa, babysitting etc because nothing that has been said showed him to have any remorse.

Derstine can throw all that stuff on the table and even her supposedly going inside the school it really does not matter, the jury knows she confessed to the crime, is serving a life sentence and so if that is derstines closing arguments I am certain this will not be a hung jury or an acquittal he will be charged and he will go to jail for participating in all three charges that he has been accused of.

I have no doubt in my mind that Tori Stafford will get justice!

 

[~n/t~]

RAW VIDEO: Comments from Rodney Stafford

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/01/19703251.html

I have so much respect for him. ((hugs to Rodney, his family, Tara and all those who loved Tori))

He's a class act. I'm sorry you will never know the truth Rodney. They're both liars and you're right the only one who knows the truth is Victoria but hopefully her accused murderer will pay for what he has done to her.

Time for people to lay off the lies OUTSIDE of the courtroom. Rumours, speculations and downright disrespect for Victoria's family. All lies and if Rodney said so, I believe it!

 

[Snoopster]

The witness said TLM went in the front doors.......right by the school offices on the inside I would imagine.

The witness didn't just see TLM walk in the door. She saw her walk by the buses and then into the front door........so the witnessed watched her all the way in.

IMO there is no reason to dispute the witness observations.

The Crown made a feeble attempt at it....perhaps to justify why they didn't call her as a witness, but I think the jury will believe her testimony as truthful.

RS was surprised and knew nothing about the witness. He asked why the Crown didn't call her to testify as well.

When RS said the trial was full of lies on the inside of the courtroom and the outside, he wasn't talking about the defense questions.......IMO.

The defense only called one witness.........and RS didn't question her testimony.

RS has previously said he didn't mind Derstine's questions if it brought out the truth.

So that leaves................Crown witnesses.

JMO..................

The witness watched her walk in (and I believe that the witness believes it was TLM...but that doesn't mean it WAS TLM...lots of white jackets in 2009). But, the witness never saw her come out with Tori. The timing is off, with Tori running back for her earrings. I just don't see what this proves. Even if she came out with Tori, I still don't understand what this proves.

Please help me out here. I don't think anyone believes that TLM is completely able to tell the entire truth, but the Crown came up with enough support for the RELEVANT points of her testimony that it doesn't really matter.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

So the theory with the babysitting angle is this then.

MR showed up at TLM's place in the early afternoon looking for drugs. So he and TLM went to her friends to get some drugs and then he dropped her off at her prearranged appt at the Employment Centre telling her he was going out of town and asked her if she wanted to go with him. So she told him that she had to babysit a friend's 8 yr old daughter after school and he said no problem, we can take her with us, she can sit on the hard metal in the back seat since I have no cushioned bench seat. And I'll wait for you to finish up at the employment centre and then drop you off at the school and go park at a gas station away from the school until around the time you might have picked her up and then I'll park in the small lot at the nursing home as far away from the school as possible and you can meet me there.

He wanted TLM's company so badly on that one day he was driving out to Guelph for his drug run (even though he was doing it about 3 times a month on his own prior to that) that he was willing to wait over an hour for her to pick up a strange child and was willing to take that child with him in his car with no back seat for her to sit on?

Does anyone else realize how preposterous this sounds?

MOO

 

[Heliotrope]

Loved ones hear the hard cold facts

Interesting read RE: when Tori's Family found out from LE what happened to Tori

God Bless Tori's twin Daryn
Since April 30, McDonald has wrestled with how and when to tell her son and Tori's beloved brother Daryn about the girl's last hours. He was not at the hotel or the courtroom in April.

"If I had my choice I would never tell him what happened," she says during an interview in the summer.

But Daryn is a smart boy and he will read in newspapers that McClintic bought a hammer, and garbage bags, McDonald says.

"I know he will figure it out. I know."

Just a few days ago, with a grief counsellor at hand, McDonald finally told Daryn how his sister died. She had to explain the meaning of "multiple force blunt trauma" - the official words of the autopsy.

In words meant to comfort and warn, she told Daryn they will never know the truth of what happened that day.

Everyone involved will tell the story to make themselves look better, McDonald told him.

"I told him only one person will ever know the truth of what happened, and that is Tori."


read.http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/12/08/16474986.html

Dear God. When you think you've heard it all, it keeps getting worse.