Montjoy
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It wasn't. It was determined to be a suicide. There is plenty of information on this available. The case is closed.
The Water Tanks
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It wasn't. It was determined to be a suicide. There is plenty of information on this available. The case is closed.
Thanks Montjoy. Sorry, I forgot what the police said. Yes, now I recall it was suicide because something of her mental issue. But my thought hasn't changed, it just can't be done by herself. I will write more about what my thought is later on. To me, her action at the elevator was all sensible movements, I felt I can relate to every bit of what she was doing.
Yes, this was a strange case, and the one that originally brought me to Websleuths. I still feel the police did not handle this case well. They were slow to investigate and I'm not sure the investigation was thorough enough. However, Montjoy and a few others did convince me that this could have been a suicide. Still, a very unusual situation.
I shall write more about it once I gathered my thought on this. This case has been in my mind for years. Yes BlueShoe, I agree that this case was not handled with enough details and left with unanswered questions. I felt that the official just wanted to put this job aside so closed the case pretty soon. But in my mind, this is a cold case!
Her action in the elevator
Many had mentioned that her action in the elevator was weird, strange and under the influence of drug, but what I saw was someone who was in fear when the elevator wasnt moving, there could be one or more person that she was scared of or simply she just imagined any potential bad people or ghost at that kind of time with no people around. I think imagining scary thing is very normal especially under that circumstances, late at night in a very quiet surrounding.
Just a thought passed my mind that I am suspecting that she wasnt scare of someone who she just met because she came in to the elevator from the left hand side, when the elevator wasnt moving, later at one point with one leg quickly stepped out, she looked to the right first then to the left, she wasnt checking out at the direction that she came from first, could that means she wasnt scare of someone she might had just met?
Her strange hand movement around the elevator, to me, she was testing if there was some sort of sensor causing the elevator not to move.
She doesnt seems to be under the influence of drug, she wasnt laughing, jumping, dancing, she can feel fear, not like people who took drug made them had no fear, she had energy, she was checking whether there was someone outside the elevator and she was trying to put thing under control. The toxicology report also suggested that there were no drug in her blood other than those medication.
I am also thinking that if she had those medication in her system, wouldnt that means that she would be in more control and should be less likely wanted to die as people suggested that she was suicide. The medication should be working the other way around, not making her feel more depress, its usually only happened when people stopped taking it. Besides, Elisa doesnt looks depressed in the elevator, she had energy, she was fear of her life, I think when a person is in a suicidal state, there is nothing they cares or fears, not the fear of death.
I couldnt quite clearly see that she was talking while she was standing outside the elevator as many mentioned that she might be talking to someone. I am definitely a person who would talk to myself, I also know people who would talk to themselves. In that kind of situation, I believe I would definitely speaks to myself to think of a solution of what to do next.
I believe if it was for an angry man facing this type of problem, he could had bashed up the elevator, bashed up the control panel. If it was for a child, the child could be jumping up and down in the elevator wanting it to work. But for Elisa, she seems to be a quiet and polite type of person, trying to find out what was wrong with the elevator. I am quite certain that anyone who faced a not moving elevator and trapped quite high up in the building, not to mention that it was very late at night, would be feeling very frustrated and you can be sure that many sort of unexpected or strange response or behavior could be seen.
She was just a light build and helpless young lady, many people seems to expect her to do something different, why?
Next is why did she pressed many floor buttons in the elevator, what passed through my mind now is that she could be trying to hide her track, avoiding someone knowing which floor she was in. In that case, it could means that she did had someone particular in mind, this someone might or might not had anything to do with her death? But I think it is more than likely that this particular someone has a lot to do with this tragedy.
Why the elevator not moving for a considerable of time but eventually it moved? I have read a few peoples suggestion but there seems no clear answer. I am no expert in elevator but from personal experience of taking an old building hotel elevator and another warehouse elevator, it is possible the old building design elevator do not function as we would wish it to be like the modern day elevator, for warehouse elevator, there can be a switch to stop the elevator moving but this would not answer why the elevator eventually moved for Elisa. A more possible outrage idea is that someone in the security control room watched through their TV and might had control over the elevator!??
Many had mentioned that her action in the elevator was weird, strange and under the influence of drug, but what I saw was someone who was in fear when the elevator wasnt moving, there could be one or more person that she was scared of or simply she just imagined any potential bad people or ghost at that kind of time with no people around. I think imagining scary thing is very normal especially under that circumstances, late at night in a very quiet surrounding.
Just a thought passed my mind that I am suspecting that she wasnt scare of someone who she just met because she came in to the elevator from the left hand side, when the elevator wasnt moving, later at one point with one leg quickly stepped out, she looked to the right first then to the left, she wasnt checking out at the direction that she came from first, could that means she wasnt scare of someone she might had just met?
Her strange hand movement around the elevator, to me, she was testing if there was some sort of sensor causing the elevator not to move.
She doesnt seems to be under the influence of drug, she wasnt laughing, jumping, dancing, she can feel fear, not like people who took drug made them had no fear, she had energy, she was checking whether there was someone outside the elevator and she was trying to put thing under control. The toxicology report also suggested that there were no drug in her blood other than those medication.
I am also thinking that if she had those medication in her system, wouldnt that means that she would be in more control and should be less likely wanted to die as people suggested that she was suicide. The medication should be working the other way around, not making her feel more depress, its usually only happened when people stopped taking it. Besides, Elisa doesnt looks depressed in the elevator, she had energy, she was fear of her life, I think when a person is in a suicidal state, there is nothing they cares or fears, not the fear of death.
I couldnt quite clearly see that she was talking while she was standing outside the elevator as many mentioned that she might be talking to someone. I am definitely a person who would talk to myself, I also know people who would talk to themselves. In that kind of situation, I believe I would definitely speaks to myself to think of a solution of what to do next.
I believe if it was for an angry man facing this type of problem, he could had bashed up the elevator, bashed up the control panel. If it was for a child, the child could be jumping up and down in the elevator wanting it to work. But for Elisa, she seems to be a quiet and polite type of person, trying to find out what was wrong with the elevator. I am quite certain that anyone who faced a not moving elevator and trapped quite high up in the building, not to mention that it was very late at night, would be feeling very frustrated and you can be sure that many sort of unexpected or strange response or behavior could be seen.
She was just a light build and helpless young lady, many people seems to expect her to do something different, why?
Next is why did she pressed many floor buttons in the elevator, what passed through my mind now is that she could be trying to hide her track, avoiding someone knowing which floor she was in. In that case, it could means that she did had someone particular in mind, this someone might or might not had anything to do with her death? But I think it is more than likely that this particular someone has a lot to do with this tragedy.
Why the elevator not moving for a considerable of time but eventually it moved? I have read a few peoples suggestion but there seems no clear answer. I am no expert in elevator but from personal experience of taking an old building hotel elevator and another warehouse elevator, it is possible the old building design elevator do not function as we would wish it to be like the modern day elevator, for warehouse elevator, there can be a switch to stop the elevator moving but this would not answer why the elevator eventually moved for Elisa. A more possible outrage idea is that someone in the security control room watched through their TV and might had control over the elevator!??
Going up the roof
So what I see was a person in fear, perhaps fear of a bad person or ghost, imaginative or real. To say that she went up the roof and got herself killed, I found it hard to make sense of it. She was in a state of fear, and suddenly a 360 degree change in her attitude/state of mind, went up the roof in the dark, walk herself into the gap between the tanks, climbed up the ladder, opened the lid, took off her clothes (report said that she was naked), she either dumped her clothes into the water first or grabbed the clothes and jumped into the tank together, and then there was this technical issue about how she managed to closed the lid which I will discuss later. This whole action was extremely scary. I can’t make sense of this change in her mental state, she was suddenly became so brave.
But let’s say she was running away from someone, ran to the roof, hidden behind the tank, found the ladder and climbed up, she thought to hide inside the tank, so she opened the lid, but then WHY would she took off her clothes before jumping in? It seems the logical steps stopped here. On another note, I think it is more likely for the person in fear falling off the tank instead of being able to manage themselves jumping into the hole of the tank, you got to be very calm. If she was really running away from someone and got herself killed, this someone is still guilty!
So what I see was a person in fear, perhaps fear of a bad person or ghost, imaginative or real. To say that she went up the roof and got herself killed, I found it hard to make sense of it. She was in a state of fear, and suddenly a 360 degree change in her attitude/state of mind, went up the roof in the dark, walk herself into the gap between the tanks, climbed up the ladder, opened the lid, took off her clothes (report said that she was naked), she either dumped her clothes into the water first or grabbed the clothes and jumped into the tank together, and then there was this technical issue about how she managed to closed the lid which I will discuss later. This whole action was extremely scary. I can’t make sense of this change in her mental state, she was suddenly became so brave.
But let’s say she was running away from someone, ran to the roof, hidden behind the tank, found the ladder and climbed up, she thought to hide inside the tank, so she opened the lid, but then WHY would she took off her clothes before jumping in? It seems the logical steps stopped here. On another note, I think it is more likely for the person in fear falling off the tank instead of being able to manage themselves jumping into the hole of the tank, you got to be very calm. If she was really running away from someone and got herself killed, this someone is still guilty!
Water tank – lid
There was no info about whether the lid was closed or opened when Elisa’s body was found, but there was no mention that when the repair man went up to the tank and check, the lid was open, if it was opened, I strongly believed that it would had been mentioned (in the news) because for the lid of a tank that is for drinking and personal use should not be opened.
So I believe the lid was closed when the repair man went to check the tank after customers’ complaint. This would meant that Elisa had managed to close the lid after she got in. I think this is a pretty hard to complete task. There was no where for her to step on while she got inside the tank, so let’s say she used one hand holding onto one side of the opening, then use her other hand grabbed the lid and closed it. Once she closed it, her other hand holding onto one side has to be released, all in the dark, she could either be floating in the water or still holding onto something while waiting in the water. If she could managed closing the lid, obviously it meant that she could swim, if she could swim, how could she drown in there? Being able to close the lid, to me, doesn’t looks like someone who had an accident or someone who wanted to kill herself!
There was no info about whether the lid was closed or opened when Elisa’s body was found, but there was no mention that when the repair man went up to the tank and check, the lid was open, if it was opened, I strongly believed that it would had been mentioned (in the news) because for the lid of a tank that is for drinking and personal use should not be opened.
So I believe the lid was closed when the repair man went to check the tank after customers’ complaint. This would meant that Elisa had managed to close the lid after she got in. I think this is a pretty hard to complete task. There was no where for her to step on while she got inside the tank, so let’s say she used one hand holding onto one side of the opening, then use her other hand grabbed the lid and closed it. Once she closed it, her other hand holding onto one side has to be released, all in the dark, she could either be floating in the water or still holding onto something while waiting in the water. If she could managed closing the lid, obviously it meant that she could swim, if she could swim, how could she drown in there? Being able to close the lid, to me, doesn’t looks like someone who had an accident or someone who wanted to kill herself!
Water Tank – hole
As previous poster had mentioned that if one stumbled into a hole, normally it would be one leg into the hole and then you would get bruises as you hit onto things. This was a very good point. I wanted to elaborate on this. For Elisa to fell into the hole, she has to had both legs closed together to get in, this means that it wasn’t an accident, the hole is not that big, she is not that small, to fall in by accident is not possible. If you are talking about a child or that it was a river, that is possible, this does happen in the real world, small child fell into the crack or drunker drowned in the river. Besides, it would also meant that the lid was opened at the time for the accident to happen.
This means it could only be suicide/intentional or murder. I think whether the lid was opened or closed after she got in was a key, if it was closed, I do find it hard to believe it was suicide because I don’t think a suicide person would be care enough to close the lid before they kill themselves especially when I believe it would require considerable effort to close the lid after jumping in, this also depends on the water level, if the level is more than 5 feet away from the top, I think it is almost impossible for a woman to handle the closing of the lid when you already don’t have a ground to stand on and with water level that is not enough for her to float at the top.
To me, she wasn’t under the influence of drug, the toxicology report also confirmed it, that also suggested that she wasn’t in a state of mind to do silly thing, to go up the roof, climbed up the tank, opened the lid, took off your clothes, throw yourself into the tank and perhaps closed the lid, does not make any sense to me.
As previous poster had mentioned that if one stumbled into a hole, normally it would be one leg into the hole and then you would get bruises as you hit onto things. This was a very good point. I wanted to elaborate on this. For Elisa to fell into the hole, she has to had both legs closed together to get in, this means that it wasn’t an accident, the hole is not that big, she is not that small, to fall in by accident is not possible. If you are talking about a child or that it was a river, that is possible, this does happen in the real world, small child fell into the crack or drunker drowned in the river. Besides, it would also meant that the lid was opened at the time for the accident to happen.
This means it could only be suicide/intentional or murder. I think whether the lid was opened or closed after she got in was a key, if it was closed, I do find it hard to believe it was suicide because I don’t think a suicide person would be care enough to close the lid before they kill themselves especially when I believe it would require considerable effort to close the lid after jumping in, this also depends on the water level, if the level is more than 5 feet away from the top, I think it is almost impossible for a woman to handle the closing of the lid when you already don’t have a ground to stand on and with water level that is not enough for her to float at the top.
To me, she wasn’t under the influence of drug, the toxicology report also confirmed it, that also suggested that she wasn’t in a state of mind to do silly thing, to go up the roof, climbed up the tank, opened the lid, took off your clothes, throw yourself into the tank and perhaps closed the lid, does not make any sense to me.
Additional thoughts :
The precision of the whole task, killing yourself and disappeared without a trace, definitely cannot be managed under the influence of drug, not to even mention if they could climb up a ladder, and this killing need to be done with a pretty shape, calculated and detail mind. Was Elisa such a person? And would a person with such mind do this to themselves? Very unlikely or never! It was someone with very good logic to have completed each of those steps.
Her missing mobile phone is definitely an item of interest. Why would it gone missing? It is more likely that it had a link to her death than not. I don’t know how far the US police went to investigate a Canadian tragedy but I expected that they would had at least tried to ring the phone and better if they had obtained her mobile phone identity/manufacturing id code and tracked whose hand it had gone to.
She had been all logical and sensible along the trip such as buying some books as gifts when returned to Canada, the sudden change of behavior is not making sense.
I think the state L.A. and the area that she was staying in was a complex society, to have a police task force providing high quality investigation in this case seems very difficult. The surrounding that she was in, full of travelers 24/7, also made it very difficult for investigation. And as the police also claimed that in the first few week of Elisa’s disappearance, they cannot or not allowed to go into people’s rooms as it wasn’t considered a crime yet. Any evidence would had gone by then. Again, luck is on the perpetrator’s side!
I truly felt that the hotel is trying to cover itself, which is understandable, but I think some valuable info might had been withheld.
The report suggested that there was no sign of rape or trauma, it could be just someone wanted to kill someone, could be a young and hot blood killer?, racist?, drowned her in the bath tube before dumping her into the tank??? Any way of murder is possible.
Elisa was light build/weight, I don’t think it would be very difficult for a big man to carry her up the ladder.
The precision of the whole task, killing yourself and disappeared without a trace, definitely cannot be managed under the influence of drug, not to even mention if they could climb up a ladder, and this killing need to be done with a pretty shape, calculated and detail mind. Was Elisa such a person? And would a person with such mind do this to themselves? Very unlikely or never! It was someone with very good logic to have completed each of those steps.
Her missing mobile phone is definitely an item of interest. Why would it gone missing? It is more likely that it had a link to her death than not. I don’t know how far the US police went to investigate a Canadian tragedy but I expected that they would had at least tried to ring the phone and better if they had obtained her mobile phone identity/manufacturing id code and tracked whose hand it had gone to.
She had been all logical and sensible along the trip such as buying some books as gifts when returned to Canada, the sudden change of behavior is not making sense.
I think the state L.A. and the area that she was staying in was a complex society, to have a police task force providing high quality investigation in this case seems very difficult. The surrounding that she was in, full of travelers 24/7, also made it very difficult for investigation. And as the police also claimed that in the first few week of Elisa’s disappearance, they cannot or not allowed to go into people’s rooms as it wasn’t considered a crime yet. Any evidence would had gone by then. Again, luck is on the perpetrator’s side!
I truly felt that the hotel is trying to cover itself, which is understandable, but I think some valuable info might had been withheld.
The report suggested that there was no sign of rape or trauma, it could be just someone wanted to kill someone, could be a young and hot blood killer?, racist?, drowned her in the bath tube before dumping her into the tank??? Any way of murder is possible.
Elisa was light build/weight, I don’t think it would be very difficult for a big man to carry her up the ladder.
Dude, the lid was off when the maintenance man went up there -- from the horse's mouth himself (not sure if you missed the report posted on the previous page or what). It's not uncommon for details like that in cases as such to either A) never come out at all publicly or B) come out much later. The police know way more details than what was publicly released -- this one just so happened to be leaked.
She saunters into the elevator, lingers not only inside but outside the elevator for several seconds, then slowly saunters out again. There is literally nothing that indicates she was "afraid" in the slightest. I think you're projecting what you want to see in the video, and not letting it speak for itself.
It makes no sense that someone would just out of the blue want to kill this girl, and do it in this manner. The killer would have just had to immerse an asian female's entire body in a tank of water on a rooftop?
She got in the hole by herself. Dumping a limp body into the hole would have still left markings, and if she was forced in, there would have definitely been markings.
This case is done and over. It's a shame a young woman in the prime of her life fell victim to such a fate.
She saunters into the elevator, lingers not only inside but outside the elevator for several seconds, then slowly saunters out again. There is literally nothing that indicates she was "afraid" in the slightest. I think you're projecting what you want to see in the video, and not letting it speak for itself.
It makes no sense that someone would just out of the blue want to kill this girl, and do it in this manner. The killer would have just had to immerse an asian female's entire body in a tank of water on a rooftop?
She got in the hole by herself. Dumping a limp body into the hole would have still left markings, and if she was forced in, there would have definitely been markings.
This case is done and over. It's a shame a young woman in the prime of her life fell victim to such a fate.
The case cannot be over and done with if there are more than one supportable theories of what happened. Taking all the facts assumed by Userid: the lid was off after poor Elisa was in the water tank; she was not afraid in the elevator; she was not killed by another person; she got in the hole by herself.
Even assuming all these facts to be true (which I happen to agree, except if not fear there was something going on emotionally with her in the elevator (just because no fear and no drugs doesn't mean she wasn't having a mental episode of some kind)) it still leaves open different possibilities, at least three:
1. Suicide. Definitely consistent with the facts but not necessarily the only explanation consistent (so I disagree it's already somehow been established its suicide). Here's theee other possibilities:
2. Accidentally fell in the hole while on the top of the tank
3. Was in some kind of mental instability and decided to go in but not thinking straight and not really knowing what she was doing
4. Didn't fall in and did know what she was doing. Just felt like going in the tank but just didn't think it through how she was going to get out.
Am I missing something?
Even assuming all these facts to be true (which I happen to agree, except if not fear there was something going on emotionally with her in the elevator (just because no fear and no drugs doesn't mean she wasn't having a mental episode of some kind)) it still leaves open different possibilities, at least three:
1. Suicide. Definitely consistent with the facts but not necessarily the only explanation consistent (so I disagree it's already somehow been established its suicide). Here's theee other possibilities:
2. Accidentally fell in the hole while on the top of the tank
3. Was in some kind of mental instability and decided to go in but not thinking straight and not really knowing what she was doing
4. Didn't fall in and did know what she was doing. Just felt like going in the tank but just didn't think it through how she was going to get out.
Am I missing something?
margarita25
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Yes it was, imagining:
From USA Today and other links:
"The cause of death was listed as accidental due to drowning, with bipolar disorder listed as a significant condition, he said."
margarita25
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I not convinced that this was an accidental death, jmo.
As to actions in the elevator: the autopsy showed neither drugs nor the level of evidence of the four prescriptions you would expect if she was taking them regularly. No drugs means drugs cannot explain anything. But low medicine level can explain a lot. If Elisa is suddenly lowering the dosage of a cocktail of medicines, including bipolar and depression medicines, that clearly could have had a big impact on her ability to act normally, such as the hand movements. By the way in my opinion the elevator wasn't broken she just had pushed the hold button. So we are left with either fear or the effect of missing dosages or a combination as causing the rest of the tragic events.
As to getting on the roof: I agree fear isn't consistent with going up on the roof alone. But the missing medicines must have resulted in her either having some kind of mental episode or not thinking straight, leading to one of the four scenarios I mentioned above. By the way in my opinion the most likely possibility of the clothes is that once poor Elisa found herself fighting to stay afloat of the water, she must have found wet heavy clothing a hindrance and so removed her clothes. Also I'm not sure she could have climbed the ladder in between the tanks. In my opinion she climbed the red rungs against the equipment building and dropped the short distance from there to the tank.
As to the lid: I think it may well have been open when they found her. But if closed, she could have been looking into the tank with the lid resting against her body and when her body had gone in the tank the lid could have closed by itself.And the ability to swim doesn't do you any good once your keeping yourself above the water finally exhausts you. She wasn't found for two weeks.
As to the hole: Assuming you're right about no accident and no drugs it still leaves two other alternatives besides either murder or suicide based on the low medicine levels. See my post above. As mentioned, whether or not she could close the lid, there's also the possibility of it closing after she went in based on the resting lid theory.
As to additional thoughts: ah yes the phone. You might ask about the laptop too. In my opinion they were stolen by one of the staff that had access to the room. She's missing, why not pick up hundreds of dollars of equipment. Don't think the guests there were leaving big tips. Also I don't make as light as you do of carrying her body from the bathtub to the elevator to the roof and then up whichever ladder was used is likely. Too many chances of being caught. If your a murderer why take the chance? Fear of being caught trumps dramatic effect. And I don't see it being that easy to get to the top of the water tank carrying poor Elisa's dead and dead weight body.
Thank you for organizing the issues.
As to getting on the roof: I agree fear isn't consistent with going up on the roof alone. But the missing medicines must have resulted in her either having some kind of mental episode or not thinking straight, leading to one of the four scenarios I mentioned above. By the way in my opinion the most likely possibility of the clothes is that once poor Elisa found herself fighting to stay afloat of the water, she must have found wet heavy clothing a hindrance and so removed her clothes. Also I'm not sure she could have climbed the ladder in between the tanks. In my opinion she climbed the red rungs against the equipment building and dropped the short distance from there to the tank.
As to the lid: I think it may well have been open when they found her. But if closed, she could have been looking into the tank with the lid resting against her body and when her body had gone in the tank the lid could have closed by itself.And the ability to swim doesn't do you any good once your keeping yourself above the water finally exhausts you. She wasn't found for two weeks.
As to the hole: Assuming you're right about no accident and no drugs it still leaves two other alternatives besides either murder or suicide based on the low medicine levels. See my post above. As mentioned, whether or not she could close the lid, there's also the possibility of it closing after she went in based on the resting lid theory.
As to additional thoughts: ah yes the phone. You might ask about the laptop too. In my opinion they were stolen by one of the staff that had access to the room. She's missing, why not pick up hundreds of dollars of equipment. Don't think the guests there were leaving big tips. Also I don't make as light as you do of carrying her body from the bathtub to the elevator to the roof and then up whichever ladder was used is likely. Too many chances of being caught. If your a murderer why take the chance? Fear of being caught trumps dramatic effect. And I don't see it being that easy to get to the top of the water tank carrying poor Elisa's dead and dead weight body.
Thank you for organizing the issues.
margarita25
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I think about Elisa's case all the time. It is quite a mystery imo, multifaceted with numerous possibilities and angles. I look forward to going to back and reading you all's recent posts.
I was followed by a strange person a while back. My actions reminded me of Elisa in the elevator.
I was followed by a strange person a while back. My actions reminded me of Elisa in the elevator.
margarita25
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There are plenty of girls who get killed "out of the blue". A young girl traveling alone in that awful hotel with rsos and who knows who else staying there...Any long term or short term guest/resident and/or staff member could know about the rooftop access and water tanks. That method of hiding her body and its disposal might have been more convenient than trying to get it out of the hotel.
I am not saying that this is what happened, but I am not saying this is what didn't happen either, jmo.
Elisaa444
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BBM
This is one of the main and unfortunate things I've learned over the years by being a regular on this forum. Until I started following true crime cases I had no idea just how many "out of the blue" and 'killing just because' victims there are out there. I've read about those cases more times than I want to recall. Because to me and probably most people on this forum...likely feel that out of the blue killings as well as planned, thought out killings are so beyond anything we could ever fathom ... for us who would never kill ...it is impossible for us (at least to me rather) grasp killing another human being. Sorry for the OT.
Back to Elisa. She is never far from my mind. My 'theory' as to what I think happened has changed several times. I've followed since the beginning. Just when I think I have a solid theory I'll read another poster's opinion and I'm reconsidering everything. I check this thread all the time to read the theories and opinions of others on this case because this case has me perplexed. Usually (right or wrong) I tend to lean one way or the other in a case ...and I have a hard time letting go of what I think happened. This is one case where that is not so...which makes sense to me...because of the circumstances of Elisa's death.
RIP Elisa. :rose:
Your post seems clearly thought out and rational - on the balance of things, do you lean toward one theory over another - even if there are still flaws in just about every scenario one can come up with? I'm new to this case and I have to say Elisa's behaviour in the elevator seemed to be caused by some compulsion. She seems to smile at some points.