^ Not underneath, but on the outer-side of the steel rectangular border surrounding the hole. In this photo (http://i.imgur.com/5YyXSPI.jpg), where there's a shadow on the right side of the steel border that surrounds the hole -- that's where the hatch would be attached; like it is on the tank in front. Since the photo looks directly down the hole, it's tough to say one way or the other, but a hatch can not be definitely ruled out, since the angle of the picture is an overhead view.
The Water Tanks
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I just can't really see anything. I can see comprehend how something can be under it, but otherwise... I just can't tell.
I tried looking, but got really sidetracked because at first everything assumed I had a farm. Then I got all of these sites about this case, so I was reading comments people had.
And then there's the fact these are old tanks. Or they surely look old. I don't know if there is any comparable thing still sold because, even if it is not drinking water you're storing, most people would want to lock it due to other types of safety reasons. And the tanks I found were really different than these, for all I know, maybe they didn't even have a lid.
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http://omg.yahoo.com/video/did-elisa-lam-die-193100223.html
In this video, they talk about the lids being difficult to remove. That was according to officials who removed the lid. They make it sound as if officials thought it might be too difficult for Elisa.
This being said, the hatch could have been wide open when she got there.
In this video, they talk about the lids being difficult to remove. That was according to officials who removed the lid. They make it sound as if officials thought it might be too difficult for Elisa.
This being said, the hatch could have been wide open when she got there.
the_chosen_one
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Was this image of you or your friend? If it was your friend how tall are they? I worked out the tank closest to the person is about 160% of their height...
If it was you, for the benefit of my mathematical inabilities i'll jump into metric:
5'1" = 61" = 156cm.
156cm × 160% = 250cm (calculated tank height)
250cm = 98" = 8'2"
(I acknowledge person standing next to tank is slightly closer to camera so this may underestimate tank height; on the other hand the tanks on the right seem to be slightly taller than the ones on the left in most of the photos from this angle. Also if this is your friend and she is taller than 5'1", then the tank height again will be underestimated)
thesetup85
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Was this image of you or your friend? If it was your friend how tall are they? I worked out the tank closest to the person is about 160% of their height...
If it was you, for the benefit of my mathematical inabilities i'll jump into metric:
5'1" = 61" = 156cm.
156cm × 160% = 250cm (calculated tank height)
250cm = 98" = 8'2"
(I acknowledge person standing next to tank is slightly closer to camera so this may underestimate tank height; on the other hand the tanks on the right seem to be slightly taller than the ones on the left in most of the photos from this angle. Also if this is your friend and she is taller than 5'1", then the tank height again will be underestimated)
The tanks were reported to be 10 ft tall and 15 ft high.
So yes, you calculations are pretty close.
thesetup85
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I have been reading all the threads regarding this case and have gathered the following information regarding the tank (info which is either confirmed fact or a hard deduction).
1) The Handyman found the hatch CLOSED when he went to investigate and found the body.
2) There is NO ladder inside the tank.
3) The Hatch is hinged and heavy.
4) The tank is about 10ft deep.
5) The opening is about 15"x15"
Now:
- I can agree that Ms. Lam can make her way to the roof.
- I can agree that she could have used the wooden ladder or the red ladder by the shed to get on top of the roof.
- I can agree that she opens the hatch.
- I can agree that she can get in the 15"x15" opening without scratching or bruising herself.
But what I cannot agree on, is that she closed the lid behind her!!!
The only way I can think off is:
She would have had to suspend herself on the opening by her armpits with the aid of her her elbows, with her feet dangling inside and then grabbed the lid some how and closed it as she fell inside.
To accomplish the above and that too in darkness, is not plausible at all.
So any theories how the lid was found closed besides "someone noticed it open and closed it without looking inside"??
1) The Handyman found the hatch CLOSED when he went to investigate and found the body.
2) There is NO ladder inside the tank.
3) The Hatch is hinged and heavy.
4) The tank is about 10ft deep.
5) The opening is about 15"x15"
Now:
- I can agree that Ms. Lam can make her way to the roof.
- I can agree that she could have used the wooden ladder or the red ladder by the shed to get on top of the roof.
- I can agree that she opens the hatch.
- I can agree that she can get in the 15"x15" opening without scratching or bruising herself.
But what I cannot agree on, is that she closed the lid behind her!!!
The only way I can think off is:
She would have had to suspend herself on the opening by her armpits with the aid of her her elbows, with her feet dangling inside and then grabbed the lid some how and closed it as she fell inside.
To accomplish the above and that too in darkness, is not plausible at all.
So any theories how the lid was found closed besides "someone noticed it open and closed it without looking inside"??
Nickfalzone
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Some have suggested that perhaps wind blew it closed. Or maybe the handyman was lying and the reason he inspected it is because it was open. If it was actually open all that time, then maybe he would have been in trouble for not having noticed it earlier, so he wasn't being honest. Or, as many of us believe, the hatch was closed by the perp(s) that put her in there. I agree that it is unlikely that she was able to close it by herself when jumping in.
thesetup85
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So it boils down to the handman lying and the lid was open all the time.
Or the Ms. Lam did not enter the tank on her own and who ever did put her in there, closed it. Or the weakest theory, that the wind blew it close (which is apparently what the cops went for to justify their accidental death story).
This is indeed sad and depressing for me.
I hope this poor girl has found eternal peace.
AlphaWolf
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The only other way the lid could have closed is , If it wasn't opened all the way if she climbed in on her own.
example: She holds it open with one hand and climbs in ( the lid is at a 45' angle as she gets inside the lid closes.
- We just have so many unanswered questions....The " handyman " could have gave his opinion on how heavy or hard it was to open the lids. ( not sure if he ever did?)...was it hard to open?....did it have sticky hinges? or was it loose?
- I too always thought her disappearance was the result of foul play. LE seemed to just easily go with the theory she climbed in herself.....IMO
I brought this up a while ago, and it's just a theory, but for what it's worth:
As you can tell in this photo, the 2 tanks on the left are the same exact tanks; while the 2 tanks on the right (bottom right being the one where Elisa was found) are the same as well. The 2 tanks on the left are the same, but differ from the 2 tanks on the right (and vice versa). Hope that makes sense so far.
Notice the pipe that connects the 2 tanks on the right. Also notice the way the lid on the upper right tank and how it opens (and is also hinged) towards the right.
Now, if you rotate the upper right tank to where the hole would overlap the hole on Elisa's, if I'm correct (I could be wrong, so I'm hoping you can confirm), the latch on Elisa's tank would open toward the pipe that runs across both tanks. That pipe would've caused the hinged door to remain in an upright, practically 90 degree angle -- as opposed to lying flat (as it does on the upper right right tank). At that angle, it would seem easier for Elisa to close it while getting in; and/or it, at that angle, it might've been possible (albeit more improbable, yet still) for it to have closed on its own -- as opposed to if it lye completely flat on the tank's top.
This is how I believe it happened, and if (as I suppose in my previous post) the pipe that connected both tanks would've hindered the lid from falling flat, it would explain how it would've been able to occur. She put her feet in first, holding the 90 degree-angled lid with her left fingertips/hand, and kept holding it until she dropped in.
thesetup85
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Good analysis Userid. I hadn't thought about the lid being partially open, while EL got in.
the_chosen_one
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i don't believe what the police/media claim the handyman said or anything else they release can be cited as being credible fact. There has been so much rubbish that has been touted as fact based on their statements that has been proven the LAPD is either incompetent or blatant liars.
Userid makes a good point re the lid being partially open with the pipe, but I am yet to see a photo of that tank with a hinged lid on it (ie a photo with a lid that is hinged open).
Ultimately I dont think there is any plausible explanation for why a person would climb into the tank from the evidence we have, regardless of the psychological status that Elisa is speculated to have been in the moments leading up to her death. This case was given a token investigations by the LAPD to fulfil international obligations. An accidental death is much better PR than an unsolved murder.
This whole case stinks of coverups by the LAPD, the Cecil Hotel staff and the Trustees/Bankers who are supposedly responsible for the facility.
Userid makes a good point re the lid being partially open with the pipe, but I am yet to see a photo of that tank with a hinged lid on it (ie a photo with a lid that is hinged open).
Ultimately I dont think there is any plausible explanation for why a person would climb into the tank from the evidence we have, regardless of the psychological status that Elisa is speculated to have been in the moments leading up to her death. This case was given a token investigations by the LAPD to fulfil international obligations. An accidental death is much better PR than an unsolved murder.
This whole case stinks of coverups by the LAPD, the Cecil Hotel staff and the Trustees/Bankers who are supposedly responsible for the facility.
corq
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Utterly unrelated to Elisa Lam, but for the strange Water Tanks attribution to possible gang activity signature (in mexico).
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dead-body-aspiring-actress-found-4971412
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dead-body-aspiring-actress-found-4971412
New news report:
In new court documents, the Cecil Hotel employee who found the body of Elisa Lam in a water tank on the hotel's roof in 2013 discussed how he ended up investigating the water tank, and what it would take for someone to get into the tank by themselves.
<modsnip>
In court documents, Santiago Lopez said he had begun working at the Cecil Hotel in 2010 as a maintenance employee, City News Service reports. He said that he only knew who Elisa Lam was because police had begun searching for her after her family reported her missing, and that he aided officers by opening the doors of various rooms in the hotel as they conducted their investigation. He was also the one who would eventually find Lam's body in one of the four 1,000-gallon water tanks on the hotel's roof. Guests were complaining about the low water pressure, so Lopez said he took the elevator to the 15th floor and took a staircase up to the roof. He had to first turn off the rooftop alarm, then had to climb up onto the platform where the four tanks sat. Then, he had to climb another ladder to get to the top of the main tank.
"I noticed the hatch to the main water tank was open and looked inside and saw an Asian woman lying face-up in the water approximately twelve inches from the top of the tank," he said.
<modsnip>
Police had checked the roof during their investigation, but did not think to look in the tanks. Lopez said that he didn't notice anything wrong with the alarm on the door to the roof that day, nor had he heard it go off at any point during Lam's stay.
He said that to the best of his knowledge, no other hotel guests have ever been able to access the water tanks.
<modsnip>
Source: http://laist.com/2015/10/01/elisa_lam_wrongful_death_suit.php
In new court documents, the Cecil Hotel employee who found the body of Elisa Lam in a water tank on the hotel's roof in 2013 discussed how he ended up investigating the water tank, and what it would take for someone to get into the tank by themselves.
<modsnip>
In court documents, Santiago Lopez said he had begun working at the Cecil Hotel in 2010 as a maintenance employee, City News Service reports. He said that he only knew who Elisa Lam was because police had begun searching for her after her family reported her missing, and that he aided officers by opening the doors of various rooms in the hotel as they conducted their investigation. He was also the one who would eventually find Lam's body in one of the four 1,000-gallon water tanks on the hotel's roof. Guests were complaining about the low water pressure, so Lopez said he took the elevator to the 15th floor and took a staircase up to the roof. He had to first turn off the rooftop alarm, then had to climb up onto the platform where the four tanks sat. Then, he had to climb another ladder to get to the top of the main tank.
"I noticed the hatch to the main water tank was open and looked inside and saw an Asian woman lying face-up in the water approximately twelve inches from the top of the tank," he said.
<modsnip>
Police had checked the roof during their investigation, but did not think to look in the tanks. Lopez said that he didn't notice anything wrong with the alarm on the door to the roof that day, nor had he heard it go off at any point during Lam's stay.
He said that to the best of his knowledge, no other hotel guests have ever been able to access the water tanks.
<modsnip>
Source: http://laist.com/2015/10/01/elisa_lam_wrongful_death_suit.php
CanManEh
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I wonder how much the TV show American Horror Story is gonna play into the elisa lam story since there doing it in the cecil hotel.. Iam kinda surprised the actors would even work in that building after its history and thier type of show ..
Thank you, Capsie -- for ages, people have been saying that there was no way she could have entered the tank on her own, and pulled the latch down closed (over the hole). Obviously, the latch was off and was never put back on, which once again give credence to my long-held belief that she entered the tank on her own accord.
mayqueen
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So the hatch wasn't closed as reported in MSM. Why the misinformation? This is such a sad case. Poor Elisa.