Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)

[sayd]

I respectfully disagree. As I have stated a number of times, I believe this could have been a postmortem attempt to stop the fluids that would have been issuing from the nose and mouth. Which would have been more than a trivial act to accomplish. I don't think it is safe to assume the tape was placed either antemortem or perimortem. My disclaimer here is that either of us could be right, but that would also be my point.

You can state it all you want, as can the dream team, but if I was on the jury, I wouldn't buy your theory for one second. Duct tape doesn't stick to wet things, and why on earth would you duct tape the mouth and not the other orifaces. Makes no sense at all.

 

[nephers]

Prior to reading the autopsy report, I tried to keep an open mind and think of the SODDI theories, but the report has changed my mind.

The things that got me where the duct tape and the paper towel. I think the multiple layers of duct tape show rage and premeditation. I know that some disagree about when the tape was place but I strongly believe it was prior to death. I never really believed it was after, and to me the multiple layers confirms it. MOO

The paper towel, to me, was huge. It came from a bag that was taken from TL's apartment.This links it to KC b/c she obviously took it from there. It also makes me think that she didn't have any help with the attempt to clean up. I was on the fence about her getting help from GA but he would be smart enough to get rid of the evidence. The bag was found in the trunk and thrown out at the towyard. I don't think GA would have let that happen if he was in on it. The paper towel shows that she was aware of the situation, and knew she had to attempt to cover her butt. There is no insanity plea to be had here, she made a conscience decision to try to clean. Again, MOO.

Plus, there are other items that can be linked to the A house. Same brand of duct tape, same brand of garbage bag, same brand of laundry bag, the Pooh blanket. Combine that with the garbage from TL's and video of KC buying paper towels at Target (which I'm sure they will be able to show it was the same brand of paper towels), and I now think all signs lead to KC.

 

[babiesstolemydingo]

I believe you are right! I posted some info on the duct tape thread. I always wondered when my real life "tragedy" could come in handy. I was tuct taped on my eyes, mouth and nose while being kidnapped and raped. I was duct taped to a bed with my face covered in duct tape. My hair was matted on the back of my head and the tape and matting had to be cut out. This was from the struggle, rape and moving my head side to side. It would not come off by pulling no matter how hard I tried. The only way to breathe was to keep my composure, move my lips so the tape would release from my nose. With Caylee being not quite 3 ,I just don't think she had the problem solving skills to survive this horrible crime. Justice for Caylee.

I am so sorry this happened to you. Thank you for sharing.

 

[Jolynna]

Prior to reading the autopsy report, I tried to keep an open mind and think of the SODDI theories, but the report has changed my mind.

The things that got me where the duct tape and the paper towel. I think the multiple layers of duct tape show rage and premeditation. I know that some disagree about when the tape was place but I strongly believe it was prior to death. I never really believed it was after, and to me the multiple layers confirms it. MOO

The paper towel, to me, was huge. It came from a bag that was taken from TL's apartment.This links it to KC b/c she obviously took it from there. It also makes me think that she didn't have any help with the attempt to clean up. I was on the fence about her getting help from GA but he would be smart enough to get rid of the evidence. The bag was found in the trunk and thrown out at the towyard. I don't think GA would have let that happen if he was in on it. The paper towel shows that she was aware of the situation, and knew she had to attempt to cover her butt. There is no insanity plea to be had here, she made a conscience decision to try to clean. Again, MOO.

Plus, there are other items that can be linked to the A house. Same brand of duct tape, same brand of garbage bag, same brand of laundry bag, the Pooh blanket. Combine that with the garbage from TL's and video of KC buying paper towels at Target (which I'm sure they will be able to show it was the same brand of paper towels), and I now think all signs lead to KC.

I consider the paper towels a smoking gun, too.

I also agree with you that the autopsy report puts an end to speculation about Casey's state of mind or the possibility that Casey had help with clean-up.

 

[MAMABEAR]

u know what? ur right!
because even if they (defense or anthony's) say someone else had KC's car and committed the murder using KC's car....then WHY would this person (aka zanny the nanny) bother to CLEAN kc's car????
it's not zanny's car...so why does she care how clean it is????
those paper towels show SOMEONE tried to clean up that trunk.....most likely someone WHO OWNS THE CAR!!!!!!! because A) they didn't want to drive around with a "stinky" car and B) they didn't want to get caught!
KC owned the car, hence why she tried to clean it! but that didnt work, that's why she abandoned the car....:waitasec:

I member when the Target video of KC emptying the gro cart of her goodies and she took that big pkg. of paper towels out and we all thought right then that she had a mess to clean up. Funny how she left paper towels behind in the trash.

I have a question---what impact would the vacuums have on the decision to put the DP back on? If they found part of Caylee in one of the hoses, would that prove anythang other then "clean up". It would place a dead baby at the house? Maybe I'm not saying this right---so if I'm not---please help me. Thanks

 

[DAWN TREADER]

Great thread, thanks! :clap:

This may be a bit O/T but can you imagine the prosecutor bringing in a toddler-size mannequin to visually demonstrate the manner (layered) in which the duct tape was found to be applied to little Caylee Marie Anthony's mouth and nose per the testimony/findings of the medical examiner? Seriously I don't know if this kind of a demonstration would be allowed but dressed in an outfit similar to what was recovered with the remains (shorts and a tee shirt and NO SHOES) it could be very helpful/effective. Either way, we know they have pictures that can/will be used as well as Caylee's actuall skull though I don't know if they would actually bring that (the skull) into the courtroom.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[MAMABEAR]

I agree.Every time I open my mouth someone pops up with a piece of evidence I had forgotten about.
It will be great to have the pieces in one place.Thanks Cecy!

Yup---TY Beans. You be so sweet. I lub you.:blowkiss:

Miss James---I am so tired of all the guessing and crap that runs thru my tired ole brain. I just want this trial to get under way. I don't think the defense has a leg to stand on. What in the H3ll could they possibly drag into this without looking like dumb azzes? Nuttin. This ship has sunk. The only thang they could cry for is for the court not to put this 23 yr old MOTHER to death. Just what could they possibly use? Guess this doesn't have anythang to do with this thread. Lub you to, Miss James. :blowkiss: Lub all you W/Sers:blowkiss:

 

[Mrs.Peacock]

Great thread, thanks! :clap:

This may be a bit O/T but can you imagine the prosecutor bringing in a toddler-size mannequin to visually demonstrate the manner (layered) in which the duct tape was found to be applied to little Caylee Marie Anthony's mouth and nose per the testimony/findings of the medical examiner? Seriously I don't know if this kind of a demonstration would be allowed but dressed in an outfit similar to what was recovered with the remains (shorts and a tee shirt and NO SHOES) it could be very helpful/effective. Either way, we know they have pictures that can/will be used as well as Caylee's actuall skull though I don't know if they would actually bring that (the skull) into the courtroom.

Thoughts anyone?

My office was involved in a murder case in which that very demonstration was part of trial evidence. It involved a woman who shot and killed her husband and then hid his body in well for over 15 years. The attorney was allowed to bring a participant of the same size and stature of the defendant into court and demonstrate her ability to carry a doll/mannequin of similar height and weight of the husband in order to show that she could drag his body from the house several feet to the well on the property. It proved a great point and in the end she was found guilty.

 

[Jolynna]

I member when the Target video of KC emptying the gro cart of her goodies and she took that big pkg. of paper towels out and we all thought right then that she had a mess to clean up. Funny how she left paper towels behind in the trash.

I have a question---what impact would the vacuums have on the decision to put the DP back on? If they found part of Caylee in one of the hoses, would that prove anythang other then "clean up". It would place a dead baby at the house? Maybe I'm not saying this right---so if I'm not---please help me. Thanks

Great point. I forgot about the Anthony vacuum cleaners.

Car carpet fibres coated with dried decomposition fluid could be sucked up into a vacuum cleaner. Maybe Casey vacuumed when she was at the Anthony house on June 27 getting clothes and ice pops.

It sounds like Casey was pretty messy. Maybe she'd been driving around for awhile with Tony's trash bag in her trunk. Maybe Casey tossed her used paper towels into the trash bag because it was closer than any other trash container.

If Caylee was disposed of earlier in June, but Casey did not get around to trying to clean out her car until it started smelling just before June 27, Casey's text makes sense. Casey wrote to Amy about cleaning up the dead squirrel smell on June 27 because the ordeal was fresh on her mind.

Maybe Casey ditched her car because her clean-up did not work? She wouldn't have wanted to take Tony to the airport in a smelly car. So she got rid of it intending to go back and get it later when she would have time to do a better cleaning job.

June 27 was a Fusian night. Casey and Tony went shopping at J.C. Penney's that afternoon and got new shoes (with Cindy's credit card). Since Tony was free on Saturday and Sunday before leaving for the airport on Monday morning. Over the weekend Casey tried to make arrangements with both JG and Amy to get a gas can and gas.

But, she didn't mosey over to try to get her car until after Tony left. By then the car had been towed.

 

[Bree0372]

You can state it all you want, as can the dream team, but if I was on the jury, I wouldn't buy your theory for one second. Duct tape doesn't stick to wet things, and why on earth would you duct tape the mouth and not the other orifaces. Makes no sense at all.

This is a great thread! I have been away for a while from this case - it became too much for me emotionally.

Duct tape is waterproof so I'm not so sure it wouldn't stick to wet things. However, the autopsy stated that the tape was placed before decomp so I'm not arguing your point with you.

I think the matting of the hair could also be from where her body lay on the ground (in the bags) and the decomp fluids matted the hair. That thoroughly disgusts me to think about.

My thought though -- since I haven't caught up on all the threads -- has anything been released regarding the section of KC's mattress and the section of the wall that was removed (or was that all not true)? Maybe they have some bodily fluids on the mattress?

I pray that KC gets what she deserves! She is one sick 'b'. :bang:

 

[chckmate22]

wikipedia---Duct tape's versatility and holding power are evidenced by its nickname in engineering circles: "the ultimate material." It is commonly used in situations that require a strong, flexible adhesive, particularly when exposure to the elements is a concern.
IMO there are several "Sufficient Aggravating Circumstances" from the layers of duct tape to the paper towels to her behavior during and after her daughter was missing..and IMO there is a lot that we dont know yet. I also think that when you go back to interview in July and Aug with her parents and they state "Casey knows where she is" "casey knows who is responsible" "Casey will lie to protect her daughter" and the list goes on and on. Yes KC knows where she is ...15 houses away dumped like garbage...Yes KC know who is responsible...she will blame her mother....Yes she lies but only to make herself look good...

 

[Jolynna]

I member when the Target video of KC emptying the gro cart of her goodies and she took that big pkg. of paper towels out and we all thought right then that she had a mess to clean up. Funny how she left paper towels behind in the trash.

I have a question---what impact would the vacuums have on the decision to put the DP back on? If they found part of Caylee in one of the hoses, would that prove anythang other then "clean up". It would place a dead baby at the house? Maybe I'm not saying this right---so if I'm not---please help me. Thanks

Great point. I forgot about the Anthony vacuum cleaners.

Car carpet fibres coated with dried decomposition fluid could be sucked up into a vacuum cleaner. Maybe Casey vacuumed when she was at the Anthony house on June 27 getting clothes and ice pops.

It sounds like Casey was pretty messy. Maybe she'd been driving around for awhile with Tony's trash bag in her trunk. Maybe Casey tossed her used paper towels into the trash bag because it was closer than any other trash container.

If Caylee was disposed of earlier in June, but Casey did not get around to trying to clean out her car until it started smelling just before June 27, Casey's text makes sense. Casey wrote to Amy about cleaning up the dead squirrel smell after she'd tried to get rid of the decomposition because the ordeal was on her mind.

Maybe Casey ditched her car because her clean-up did not work? She wouldn't have wanted to take Tony to the airport in a smelly car. So, she got rid of the car, intending to go back and get it later when she would have time to do a better cleaning job.

June 27 was a Fusian night. Casey and Tony went shopping at J.C. Penney's that afternoon and got new shoes (with Cindy's credit card). Casey could not spend all day on June 27 cleaning up a car. She had important plans.

Tony was free on Saturday and Sunday before leaving for the airport on Monday morning. They were probably very tight that weekend due to KC's insecurity. Casey did communicate with both JG and Amy about her need for a gas can and gas over the weekend.

But, she didn't mosey over to try to get her car until after Tony left. By then the car had been towed.

 

[rosiegirl04]

Great thread, thanks! :clap:

This may be a bit O/T but can you imagine the prosecutor bringing in a toddler-size mannequin to visually demonstrate the manner (layered) in which the duct tape was found to be applied to little Caylee Marie Anthony's mouth and nose per the testimony/findings of the medical examiner? Seriously I don't know if this kind of a demonstration would be allowed but dressed in an outfit similar to what was recovered with the remains (shorts and a tee shirt and NO SHOES) it could be very helpful/effective. Either way, we know they have pictures that can/will be used as well as Caylee's actuall skull though I don't know if they would actually bring that (the skull) into the courtroom.

Thoughts anyone?

well i know when diane downes was on trial for the shooting of her children, the proscution had a mock car and three child sized dummies that he used to demonstrate with. i would love to see the look on her face if the prosecutor did something like that.

 

[CarolinaMoon]

I member when the Target video of KC emptying the gro cart of her goodies and she took that big pkg. of paper towels out and we all thought right then that she had a mess to clean up. Funny how she left paper towels behind in the trash.

I have a question---what impact would the vacuums have on the decision to put the DP back on? If they found part of Caylee in one of the hoses, would that prove anythang other then "clean up". It would place a dead baby at the house? Maybe I'm not saying this right---so if I'm not---please help me. Thanks

We haven't seen anything about them as of yet, have we? I think there might be something in one of them. Wasn't there a shop vac taken? That would possibly suck up some of the decomp from the car. So much testing in this case.

There won't be a smoking gun, IMHO... there will be tons and tons of forensic evidence as well as circumstantial evidence. I do see a story forming here that will, as a whole, be difficult to refute.

 

[Jolynna]

We haven't seen anything about them as of yet, have we? I think there might be something in one of them. Wasn't there a shop vac taken? That would possibly suck up some of the decomp from the car. So much testing in this case.

There won't be a smoking gun, IMHO... there will be tons and tons of forensic evidence as well as circumstantial evidence. I do see a story forming here that will, as a whole, be difficult to refute.

Maybe not a smoking gun, but decomposition in an Anthony vacuum cleaner and decomposition a a bag of Tony's trash found in KC's car would eliminate SODs.

IMO

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

I member when the Target video of KC emptying the gro cart of her goodies and she took that big pkg. of paper towels out and we all thought right then that she had a mess to clean up. Funny how she left paper towels behind in the trash.

I have a question---what impact would the vacuums have on the decision to put the DP back on? If they found part of Caylee in one of the hoses, would that prove anythang other then "clean up". It would place a dead baby at the house? Maybe I'm not saying this right---so if I'm not---please help me. Thanks

oh ya! i forgot about those paper towels from target!
when was the video taken?? i wonder if it's the same paper towels!?
same brand? etc....that would be interesting...

i have wondered about the vaccuums and also about those spray canisters (ones used to spray fruit trees etc...taken from A's home) the report isn't out on those is it?

and why the heck would she not throw out the garbage from the car??? talk about damning .....

 

[Trailerparkgirl]

How horrible. So glad you are alive and well today and survived such a horrendous event.

I have thought that perhaps KC chloroformed Caylee in order to have her unconscious while she place the duct tape on her mouth and nose. Caylee probably woke up and started to struggle. I would not even put it past the monster mother to have watched and when it was all over, placed the heart sticker there on the duct tape to seal the deal.....

honestly, i think if she was chloroformed, and the tape applied as soon as she passed out, i think she died right away, (lack of oxygen)
im not sure if there was a big struggle if she was passed out (sorry for being graphic)

 

[MAMABEAR]

Great thread, thanks! :clap:

This may be a bit O/T but can you imagine the prosecutor bringing in a toddler-size mannequin to visually demonstrate the manner (layered) in which the duct tape was found to be applied to little Caylee Marie Anthony's mouth and nose per the testimony/findings of the medical examiner? Seriously I don't know if this kind of a demonstration would be allowed but dressed in an outfit similar to what was recovered with the remains (shorts and a tee shirt and NO SHOES) it could be very helpful/effective. Either way, we know they have pictures that can/will be used as well as Caylee's actuall skull though I don't know if they would actually bring that (the skull) into the courtroom.

Thoughts anyone?

Member in D. Downs trial---they brought a car shell made from something and used that to show how she shot her babies. B!tch. I need a break. Sorry.

 

[debbie0604]

I agree with the tape scenario as you've laid out here, with the exception of the heart sticker. Casey didn't intend Caylee's body to be found, or any of the bags, etc. When the child was dead, prior to placing in the trunk, prior to dumping at the site where she was found, I believe the heart sticker was as close to saying goodbye/expressing remorse as Casey is able to express. it's the same as the dead pets. Representing goodbye, similar to the burial ritual of the animals of her childhood. I believe that was placed before leaving the home, after the death was done, before bagging. Casey placed that heart on impulse with no more depth of feeling than copying another icon on her MySpace page......because SHE liked it, because it was representative of her feelings at that moment. "love ya" , "buh bye". and it was over and done.

the heart sticker was in keeping with the expressed desire to have a grave site over which to "grieve her child's death" after she "gets out of prison someday". It's a similar display, She's mimicing what she percieves is acceptable for a grieving mommy.

Casey is all about her performance art. The sticker is part of that, and is about as deep as she can feel anything for someone else. In Casey's world, this is love. here.... have a heart sticker honey, mommy loves you. Buh bye.

just my opinion.

I respectfully disagree about the heart sticker. I have thought about that possibility before. I tend to think that KC was somewhat living a "double life" (going out and partying with the guys and her girlfriends), but was also tangled up at home with CA wanting her to stay home and take care of Caylee. At home with Caylee, she probably appeared to be a "good mother" (for whatever it's worth), however, secretly stealing money behind their backs. I think the fight with CA, the jealousy of Caylee and CA's relationship, and her own relationship with CA caused her to rage and seethe inside. I think that she decided to kill Caylee and she put the layers of duct tape over her mouth and nose to suffocate her and put the heart sticker over her mouth to try to quieten her down as she was trying to possibly use the chloroform as well. JMO.

Why not put the heart sticker outside of the laundry bag somewhere or on one part of the trash bag if she was planning on visiting the grave site at a later date? I don't really think she was planning on getting caught and going to prison. I think she really thought her parents would buy that "nanny story." And they seem to have bought it. That's why she was telling her friends all the time before Caylee was reported missing that she was "with the nanny" and she was telling CA that she was "crashing at Zanny's." She was premeditating the whole story all along.

 

[kageykaren]

I'm waiting to see if there was tox testing on the bone marrow. Could these results be the smoking gun the prosecution is holding close to the chest? I can't believe with all the careful testing this would be left out. It would be like a job left undone and we know how careful and thorough LE has been. On a lighter note I was thinking how kool it would be if LE were able to access the satellite in space, that can read license plates from space could be used showing just where KC was for that wk. It would be very expensive and other cases would be demanding the same type of investigating techniques. Oh Well, one can only wish.