Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #7

[Harmony 2]

Have we seen text messages between Tony and Casey? Reading Tony's interviews I came across a statement that seems to infer he received a text from Casey at 6:00pm on June 16th. Am I misinterpreting his statement on page 18?


I was hoping others would weigh in with an interpretation of lines 11 and 12 on pg 18- the context is discussion of the Blockbuster video but then they are all over the place so it is hard to discern....

TL: Yeah (affirmative) when you brought that uhm, I mean the other day I was thinking about it. Well, well what happened, what helped me a lot was going back to my phone records.

YM: Uh-hum (affirmative)

TL: Uhm, I saw like and when the last time that she texted me and that's probably around , see because this is what about, six o'clock?

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686811/Casey-Anthony-Tony-Lazzaro-transcript-Sept-8-2008



I was trying to figure out what time Casey got to Tony's since he is never asked in any of the interviews. I figured that if a text message was sent at 6pm then that would mean she was not at his apartment yet. She left the Anthony home around 4:19pm. What was she doing during all that time?

TIA

 

[logicalgirl]

Very very interesting work here BondJamesBond. So the thought is Caylee died on the 17th, not the 16th? I'm going to have to do an about face here in all my thinking because after walking around looking at and poking my leetle grey cells, I see I assumed she died at home on the 16th.

Time to get back to reading those specific older documents. I've always held back from the idea of taping Caylee and letting her die in the trunk but only because it is too horrible to think about. I gotta admit I was sort of hoping she smothered her first. Not that that would make Caylee's death less painful however.

So BJB, where geographically do you think Casey killed Caylee? Have you said this and I've missed it?

 

[BondJamesBond]

Limited ability to post @ the moment and will hafta address some things @-length later tonight.

But wanted to clarify for localgirl quickly - I'm suggesting the evening of 6/16 (not 6/17)

 

[logicalgirl]

Limited ability to post @ the moment and will hafta address some things @-length later tonight.

But wanted to clarify for localgirl quickly - I'm suggesting the evening of 6/16 (not 6/17)

Looking forward to it thanks JBJ - I see I went sideways after Piptones older article I just finished reading that LiveLaughLove wrote. I was wondering how I got so off base if it actually wasn't the 16th.

Waiting, waiting, waiting .......for your timely return.

 

[beach]

Have we seen text messages between Tony and Casey? Reading Tony's interviews I came across a statement that seems to infer he received a text from Casey at 6:00pm on June 16th. Am I misinterpreting his statement on page 18?


I was hoping others would weigh in with an interpretation of lines 11 and 12 on pg 18- the context is discussion of the Blockbuster video but then they are all over the place so it is hard to discern....



http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686811/Casey-Anthony-Tony-Lazzaro-transcript-Sept-8-2008

I was trying to figure out what time Casey got to Tony's since he is never asked in any of the interviews. I figured that if a text message was sent at 6pm then that would mean she was not at his apartment yet. She left the Anthony home around 4:19pm. What was she doing during all that time?

TIA

BBM

I thought we had, but maybe I am remembering IM's. :waitasec:

I did a search and found this post by JWG. I hope I am reading it in the correct context.

Virtually all of the texts recovered before July came from Amy's phone. For whatever reason her phone managed to save the last couple of thousand texts, whereas most other players had a limit of a few hundred before the older ones were automatically deleted. In that regard LE got very lucky, because KC sent the message about the smell to Amy where it was stored in her bottomless in-box.

BBM and snipped by me


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3530134&postcount=27"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3530134&postcount=27[/ame]


It does seem strange that TL was able to use his phone as a timeline resource during the interview, yet we don't have any copies of the texts messages.

I am still trying to discern exactly what/when TL is referring to in the lines you referenced, Harmony. You're correct...it is all over the place.

 

[BondJamesBond]

OT: Only texting dialogue w/ Casey and Tony we've seen to-date has been of the morning, 7/16 (eg ~"If they don' find her guess who spends eternity in jail", and, ~"Why are you texting and not calling me?", etc. all stamped with the Blackberry closing. HTH.

 

[BondJamesBond]

OT: FWIW, we have Tony's cell record which is all one needs in order to make the statement Tony made @ that time about when he received Casey's text.

In fact, Tony could've printed out his cell transaction record from online...or just looked @ the history on his phone for that matter.

Here's to hoping they were already looking @ a forensic report done on his phone that would've been the only other way to get the content of his text messages if they weren't still in the phone's explicit memory.

I hate to say that IF they were looking at a report that contained the content of the texts it would've been very hard for some of that not to bleed over into their conversation where we would learn it existed.

I'd be happy for someone to point out my gaffs. :bang:

 

[notthatsmart]

Have we seen text messages between Tony and Casey? Reading Tony's interviews I came across a statement that seems to infer he received a text from Casey at 6:00pm on June 16th. Am I misinterpreting his statement on page 18?


I was hoping others would weigh in with an interpretation of lines 11 and 12 on pg 18- the context is discussion of the Blockbuster video but then they are all over the place so it is hard to discern....



http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5686811/Casey-Anthony-Tony-Lazzaro-transcript-Sept-8-2008


I was trying to figure out what time Casey got to Tony's since he is never asked in any of the interviews. I figured that if a text message was sent at 6pm then that would mean she was not at his apartment yet. She left the Anthony home around 4:19pm. What was she doing during all that time?

TIA

Cassleberry?

 

[Anais]

For whatever reason, my gut tells me to trust this guy's testimony, too. I can't recall....have we ever seen any surveillance video? :waitasec:

I am not familiar with JT's sighting testimony and missed it along the line can someone point me in the direction. Sheesh my brain is not absorbing!

TIA!

Respectfully Snipped From BJB's post Above

JT's WalMart sighting isn't as rock-solid as I would like it to be. But, for the time being, I will rely on it to further support that Caylee died away from Hopespring Drive on the evening of Monday, 6/16.

 

[notthatsmart]

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #1

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #2

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #3

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #4

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #5

Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #6 (New Smoking Gun Theories for DP)


So...theories is well-trodden ground. But since we have some fresh minds @ WS, let's move forward, shall we?

To kick off #7, for my part, IMHO...

1) Caylee's remains being found in the "Big Trouble..." t-shirt is signficant. As established by pics from Ricardo's on 2 occasions in early '08, and, IIRC, further indicated by G and/or C claiming they weren't familiar w/ this shirt...is a strong indication that Caylee died away from G&C's Hopespring Drive home on the evening of Monday, 6/16. And further, that Caylee was in the process of...or had been...prepared for going to sleep for the night.

2) JT's WalMart sighting isn't as rock-solid as I would like it to be. But, for the time being, I will rely on it to further support that Caylee died away from Hopespring Drive on the evening of Monday, 6/16.

3) Per the Blockbuster surveillance video Casey was with Tony for an extended period of time - at least long enough to goto the store and return to his apartment a few minutes away - by 7:54PM 6/16. This is the earliest period for which we can establish that Caylee was not in Casey's care.

4) IIRC, per Tony's statement, the evening of movie watching 6/16 was not a well-planned activity. IOW...IMHO there was no indication that Casey was hell-bent on spending the evening/night with Tony alone, hence, no indication that Casey was pre-disposed to off'ing Caylee to do so. We still don't know the content of all the texting between Casey & Tony well into the wee hours of the morning 6/16...so...suffice it say there certainly could've been enough sexual tension building that there was motive for some time alone.

5) After arriving in the area of Tony's apartment per pings, Casey repeatedly tried to reach Cindy - whose cell phone was off - through the afternoon of 6/16 until the two spoke for just under 2 minutes @ 7:06PM after Cindy had gotten home from work. IIRC, Cindy indicated the context of this conversation was Casey telling her that she & Caylee would be out for the night. I don't place a great deal of emphasis on what Cindy may indicate the context of the call was about. I do place significance on the fact that - UP TO THIS POINT - Casey was actively attempting to reach Cindy. AFTER THIS POINT - Casey appears to avoid contact with Cindy. IMHO, this is a strong indication that something happened around this time to cause the change in Casey's communication pattern w/ Cindy.

6) At 7:20PM Casey attempted to call Amy unsuccessfully, then, re-attempted @ 7:21PM and connected (i.e. spoke to...or more likely, IMHO, left a vmail). I speculate the context of this message was a repeat of so many times before, "What time do you get off work? Call me." IMHO, this is supported by two texts from Amy later that evening @ 10:45PM & 11:17PM.

"I think I have cramps for the first time in 3 years. This sucks! I forgot how much it hurts."​

...when Casey didn't respond...and @ about the time Amy should've been getting off work from TGIF's Amy sent...​

So I'm not feeling good so I'm just going to crash at the boys. I’ll call in the morning.​

Since Amy's first text is otherwise unprovoked, and unfortunately we don't have Amy's cell records to prove it, I speculate that Amy sent the message after getting a vmail left by Casey @ 7:21PM.

The second text indicated that Amy wasn't @ Ricardo's and further supports that she was likely @ work @ TGIF's @ the time Casey called earlier in the evening.​

So...given all of the above....and given that Caylee's remains were discovered with duct tape affixed across at least the mouth (if not the mouth & nose) I speculate that Caylee died in the throes of being silenced by Casey - for what was probably intended to be a temporary childcare solution - AFTER 7:21PM when Caylee had been changed into her "Big Trouble..." tshirt for what Casey thought would eventually be a night @ Ricardo's (sim. to 6/9). Perhaps the <2 minute conversation w/ Cindy @ 7:06PM wasn't civil and served to rekindle the fury of the alleged 6/15PM fight 'tween Casey & Cindy. :waitasec:

Plenty of details/aspects/options intentionally left out here for brevity. And plenty of room to oke: poke holes and offer alternatives.

Excellent post.

Just a couple of questions though

If Kc left the house and didn't return until the next day, did she take the duct tape with her to Cassleberry? And return it later?

How do we know Caylee ever left Cassleberry alive?

Thanks

 

[RainyGirl]

Whether Caylee died away from the home, in the home, in the trunk, etc.....
I believe she died in the presence of her mother----the person solely responsible for her during that time period.

Oh yeah...MOO

 

[beach]

I am not familiar with JT's sighting testimony and missed it along the line can someone point me in the direction. Sheesh my brain is not absorbing!

TIA!

Respectfully Snipped From BJB's post Above

JT's WalMart sighting isn't as rock-solid as I would like it to be. But, for the time being, I will rely on it to further support that Caylee died away from Hopespring Drive on the evening of Monday, 6/16.

Shoot, I will try to find it. Not sure where to start looking. I didn't even recognize the initials Bond posted, so I don't know his name. IIRC, this is the tech guy that owned a shop where KC took her laptop to be repaired/serviced (I can't remember off the top of my head why she went in there :waitasec I remember she had Caylee with her and that the guy found KC attractive. A few days later as he was entering Walmart, he recognized her exiting walmart, but did not make contact with her.

Bond, do you know of any surveillance video that corroborates his story?

 

[Harmony 2]

Cassleberry?

The cell phone pings do not support that unless she went there between pings. Pings show her around the vicinity of Tony's apartment. I researched parks in the area a while back and there are a few close by IIRC.

 

[BondJamesBond]

No surveillance video from Walmart that we know about.

FYI...do a thread title search using the keyword "witness" and you should get J. Thompson's thread. It may also give you links to tv interview he gave to local news.

HTH

 

[BondJamesBond]

Did a detailed analysis on pings showing 3 or 4 options in time for the Casselberry Walmart visit. It will be late tonight before I can get it for you myself. Its either in JT's thread or the 6/16 ping thread.

 

[beach]

No surveillance video from Walmart that we know about.

FYI...do a thread title search using the keyword "witness" and you should get J. Thompson's thread. It may also give you links to tv interview he gave to local news.

HTH

Found it!! Thank you, Bond! :blowkiss:


His statment to LE begins on pg 2. of this pdf

http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21146711.p


This is the thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89603&highlight=witness


Link to WESH inteview

http://www.wesh.com/video/21209605/index.html


I bumped the "2008.06.16 Witness says he saw Caylee alive..." thread so that we don't totally derail BJB's new Theory thread. We can continue there

 

[Jolynna]

I am not familiar with JT's sighting testimony and missed it along the line can someone point me in the direction. Sheesh my brain is not absorbing!

TIA!

Respectfully Snipped From BJB's post Above

JT's WalMart sighting isn't as rock-solid as I would like it to be. But, for the time being, I will rely on it to further support that Caylee died away from Hopespring Drive on the evening of Monday, 6/16.

Here's a link to JT's handwritten report to LE: http://www.clickorlando.com/download/2009/0929/21146711.pdf page 2 & 3.

JT says the reason he noticed Casey at the Wal-mart is because she was wearing hot shorts and a cleavage-baring top. In the video with Tony at Blockbuster, Casey is not dressed the least bit provocatively. JT also notices enough about Caylee to say Casey was heartless and a bad mother. But, he doesn't say Caylee wasn't wearing shoes. I don't think it would be possible for Caylee to run around on hot pavement in bare feet.

IMO, not finding shoes with Caylee's body or having a change of clothes for Caylee in Caylee's backpack is important. Caylee needed shoes to go just about anywhere. The shorts found with Caylee's remains don't look like comortable elastic waisted "sleeping" shorts to me: http://www..com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/19.jpg Plus, Caylee would need clothes, besides the ones she'd just slept in, to go anywhere the next day (or to be brought back to Cindy).

I think it is possible Casey left the house with Caylee hoping she could leave Caylee off with Cindy at Cindy's work. Although, I think Casey would have put shoes on Caylee's feet even for that. For sure, Casey didn't pack Caylee up for an overnight stay elsewhere.

 

[TakeNote]

Im still on board with the 16th as the day Caylee died

i agree with all the calls KC was doing that after noon, it looks like she is trying to find someone to watch caylee so she can go be with TonE....since TonE made it clear caylee could not sleep over at his place......and KC didnt or couldnt find someone to take Caylee for awhile so her and TonE could spend some time together.....

with in the time frame of the last call to her mom and the one to Amy until she is with TonE at the movie rental place.....there is only 33 mins.....

(the duct tape could have already been in the trunk of her car, used for the no clothes party or just to do minor repairs on the car....ect....she could have been duct taping her before as well....just this time caylee died)

if it wasnt in the car or trunk she left caylee....where else in those 33 mins would she have left her? and when did she come back to find her dead?....(at this time i believe she was pinging near TonE apt)

hope that makes since

oh....and if she duct taped her for keeping her quite as a baby sitting type thing and she meant to come back and get her alive later on.....why wouldnt she take that duct tape off her face when she discovered her.....you would think a mother would rip that off after finding her child dead....but yet it stayed on her with the disposal of her....??

to me its still murder because of using the duct tape/child abuse and then she died during the abuse.....not sure though about pre-meditated now though....if this is what did happen......im not saying this is what i think....but i am pondering on the idea as we all talk about it......

just a few things i was thinking about

 

[Jolynna]

If Casey was at the Wal-mart with Caylee wearing a bosom showing-off top and hot shorts, she changed clothes before she went to Blockbuster video with Tony. That would mean Casey walked out of the Anthony house at 4 with a change of clothes for herself, but without any change of clothes for 2-year-old, not totally potty-trained, Caylee. And no shoes for Caylee's feet.

 

[LambChop]

I have duct tape in my car. Not uncommon.