"Theories only" - thread

[Jessica222]

Part 8

Somewhere there may be a film with the killing of Elisa Lam.

Here's a point:


I thought it quite strange for a young woman to want to go to work on a farm in Santa Cruz. I searched for Elisa Lam and Santa Cruz and came up with a connection with a Buddhist monastery/retreat...It was the James Creek Farm:
"We are a small organic farm (1 out of our 150 acres is farmed), off the grid, at 4000 feet in the Coast Range of central California. We grow mixed vegetables and fruits for the Tassajara Zen Buddhist Monastery and are on the way toward becoming a retreat center. The farm is in a very remote and spectacular location. It's not easy to get to town but cell phones and computers w/wireless work here. No alcohol or tobacco please. Please write or call for more information." There is another source that said they accept guests.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9055753"]Elisa Lam - What Happened? - Page 8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

I've just come across someone echoing most of my questions, and am happy to see that someone put it out there:


1. Why was the video slowed down? Was it to make it easier for police to pick up small details that might be useful and for all to have a clearer look at Elisa's features?
2. The video shows the duration between 0:22 to 0:26. (Supposedly 12:22-26 am, Feb 1st). Now every 3s of the actual footage has been slowed down to 4s, which means the 4-min long video we see is actually 3 minutes long originally. Yet the duration of the video seen from the counter is 12:22-26, almost exactly 4 min long too. As pointed out, this can be accounted for by the missing 54s and the three jump cuts just before the elevator door closes. Now why is this 1-min footage missing? If it was the motion sensor cutting off the video, then what caused it to cut back on just before the three jump cuts? I doubt it was edited out by a perp and the timing manipulated to fool the police. It would be naive to think the police would not scrutinize such things.

3. In fact, why release all 4 minutes of the video in the first place given that Elisa no longer appears from the 2:30 mark? Would it not be more convenient to just cut off the video at 2:30, instead of extending it and thus revealing the missing 54 minutes and the three jump cuts? I do not believe the timing counter was deliberately blurred out for it seems like a half-hearted effort if it was so. It would simply be easier to just black it out.

Really puzzling issues but unlikely that a hotel employee was responsible for the missing minute, because LAPD has denied the rumor that a hotel employee has been detained...

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200566&page=9

The point is well taken that the timer was partially obscured and yet not totally obscured. In fact, the only decipherable parts are those exposing the reduced speed and the other tampering, suggesting that someone wanted us to discover the tampering. But that idea cracks my brain with an effort to resolve the reason. I need time to think. Here's the long-version video again if you haven't got it handy:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM"]Elisa Lam Video - YouTube[/ame]
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/blog/article/the-tourist-in-the-tank/index.html

Resolved: the police wanted us to discover the parts of the timer that are decipherable. The police either wanted someone out there to know this because the hotel staff were obviously seeking to get away with such tampering, or the police wanted us to know because someone(s) in the police department is a fellow plotter(s) with the production team. Or, there is a logical explanation that no one I have read knows about.

JUST FOUND. Apparently, someone from Russia (username, arkadiy) has the ability to take the video apart frame by frame. It is asserted that there are duplicated frames at the snips:


02:54:553 (frame 2620) - 02:55.219 (frame 2629) fake 9 frames, half second, enough for somebody to bypass door
02:55.886 f2639 - 02:56.686 f2651 fake 11 frames, enough for somebody to bypass door

02:57.019 f2656 - 02:57.952 f2670 same situation Then door starts to close, no fake frames.

So if 3 guys bypass door, it was quick march at 2-4 meters per sec

...it has actually very creepy frames, where girls face looks like a wax mask, with no eyes, only black holes. But all strange gesturing part doesn't seems to be edit someway.

http://www.***********************/forum1/message2150426/pg1?COLLCC=2237961630&

Arkadiy claims to be finding spliced or "fake duplicated frames" in three areas corresponding to the three snipped segments between 25:04 and 25:14. He doesn't say by what criteria he determines the frames to be duplicates. To the best of my ability to follow, his first set of spliced frames is located less than a second after 25:04, where the elevator camera suddenly reads 25:07 (because :05 and :06 are snipped out). His second set of spliced frames seem to be located from the jump between 25:07 to 25:10 (where :08 and :09 are snipped out). His third set of spliced frames is then almost a second long from 25:11 and into 25:14 (this is where :012 and :13 are missing).

I think Arkadiy had not yet realized how to decipher the pixels, and for this reason, he didn't know (when submitting this post) that at least two seconds are missing at each snip. He therefore thinks that a person walks/runs by the elevator door in far less time than two seconds per person. He could be right that people were crossing the camera at those three points, but there is another explanation that does not require any people in any part of the 25th minute.

I'll trust Arkadiy where he mentions no spliced frames between 25:00 and 25:04. If he is correct concerning the locations and durations of the splicing thereafter, the first thing coming to mind is that the entire run, from 25:05 to 25:14, was a spliced-in repeat of an earlier part of the video having no activity. I'm saying that this was the original plan: almost ten seconds in all of repeat. Note that, from the start of 23:51, the last time the woman makes for activity, to the end of 23:59, there are nine seconds to take from, but there was likely some of 24:00 to 24:04 to take from too. This is important because it tells us that there were not any other ten-second intervals in the video from which to borrow for splicing in at 25:05 to 25:14. If there were other no-activity segments long enough, they would not have needed their three snips.

Follow me here. If, assuming there was one motionless segment of about ten-second duration somewhere in the 24th or 25th minute, then, because we hadn't yet viewed it, they would naturally have used it. But if the only segment to borrow from was the end of the 23rd minute, then, because it was already shown to the viewer, they had to disguise it. It became obvious to them that the tonal changes on the wall, for example, could have us discover a repeated section of video. Perhaps they at first jumbled, helter-skelter, small segments throughout the 10-second run, but in the end, as a quick fix to disguise the splices, they just snipped out of few parts hoping we wouldn't catch the evidence in the timer.

If this is correct, there never were people walking by the elevator door in the stretch from 25:05 to 25:14 (it lasts only four seconds elevator time due to the snips). But that doesn't necessarily mean no people walking by the door in the early part of 24th minute, when this stretch was spliced in. Why else might it have been spliced in?

A logical purpose of the splice would be to give the false impression of two possible things in the early part of the 24th minute: 1) no activity, and, 2) an open elevator door. As it seems the elevator door had no reason to close at this time unless someone walked in a pushed the door-close button, it appears that they were not concerned with the condition of the door, but rather with hiding people who appeared at the start of the 24th minute.

But wait. Could there have been another possible reason for adding in the splice? Did the camera stop taping at 24:04? For whatever reason, might this stoppage have been cause for making the splice? I've tried to look at this scenario, but have failed to see it's viability. It could be that it's too complex for my mind to grasp at this time, but in any case, I'm going to reject the idea of the camera rendered inactive in the first seconds of the 24th minute. I'm going to assume that the camera was rolling during 24:05 and 24:59, but that this segment was replaced with 25:05 to 25:59.

Arkadiy does not say that the 25:14 - 25:59 stretch was spliced in, but rather concludes that a 15-frame segment immediately before the stretch was spliced in. The way that I see his words, the entire 14th second, not including the door closing late in that second, was the 15-frame splice job. These 15 frames were taken from some other point in which the elevator door was fully open.

It seems obvious that, prior to adding the splice, the 24th minute was snipped out. First step: snip out the entire 24th minute except for 24:00 to 24:04 (so that 25:00 follows immediately after 24:04). Second step: splice and replay 23:51 to 24:00 between 25:05 and 25:14. Third step: make the three snips. Fourth step: change the timer for 24:00 to 24:04 by pasting in the timer for 21:00 to 21:04.

Arkadiy has his 15 frames ending at 2:57.952 youtube time. But the door doesn't start to close until the start of 2:58. It can mean that my claim still stands where concluding that the timer for 25:14 to 25:59 (2:58 - 3:59 youtube time) was pasted in...to explain a door abruptly closed almost a foot in distance in the late part of the 14th second. I'm assuming here that the 15 frames above do not touch any part of the door opening.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that they did not have the capability to paste in timers. By "paste," I simply mean to splice them in at any point aside from changing the video scene. That is, they could shift around any part of the timer without moving in the scene from which the timer part was taken. Let's assume they did not have this capability. It requires us to believe that the elevator door was open until 21:04, with the same four floor buttons lit as when the woman walks in a minute later and lights up her four buttons. It would require the elevator to go, in the span from 21:04 to 22:04, down three floors -- the 10th, 7th, and 4th -- and then return to the 14th in time for the woman to enter again and press the buttons all over again. There isn't quite enough time, is there? If not, then the 21:00 timer must have been pasted in to the 24:00 slot, meaning that timer parts were shifted around at will.

Next topic. Thanks to Arkadiy, I've just learned that the elevator door starts to close early in the video, then changes its mind. Hmm. Yes, between 12 and 14 seconds youtube time, the elevator door closes about an inch, then goes back to fully open. Arkadiy says (see post above) that, at the 14.929 second mark of youtube time, frames 224 - 225 are "100% glued," then follows up: "Important! Frame 224 00:14.900 timelapse, surveillense cam supposed to be at 11:18. Elevator works well, door actually starts to close, than montage, frame 225 seems to be a 11:77.. on surveillanse cam timer. Door opens, end of montage."

Hey, you know, it's a wonder that the Russians are beating the Americans to these details. Are there no video experts in America that can share these findings? Or are they too afraid to speak out?

I think what Arkadiy means is that two frames at 22:11 of the camera timestamp have been spliced in. But why only two? No eye can catch that? Why bother changing two frames? Doesn't it suggest that more frames were altered? Yes, and these two frames are right at the end of the small closing and opening of the door. Where it's said, "Door opens, end of montage," it means that frame 225 ends just after the door is fully open again. My sample of the video (saved on my personal system) has the door fully open again in the first quarter of the 11th second; Arkadiy has the end of frame 225 at the third quarter of the 11th second. That's how close the frames are to the door motion.

 

[Jessica222]

Part 9

Doesn't it mean that they once had a longer splice (probably to cover up the door movement), but decided to remove the splice, yet left two frames in? Is it no big deal??? It depends on whether the police were the splicers. Why would the police want to remove the small movement of the elevator door? Nonsense.

If that seems inexplicable and unlikely, then the video manipulators were at the hotel. And the police know that the hotel people manipulated to video. That's a big deal.

In this case, the hotel people should be the prime suspects, and yet the police said they detained (i.e. have someone in jail) someone other than a hotel staffer. You don't suppose the real killers framed someone else for the murder, and that the police are going to play along with it?? That's not playing games. That's criminality worthy of death.

It becomes obvious why the door starts to close. She took too long, when pressing the buttons, in getting to the hold-door button...so that the elevator started on its way to the tenth floor. It's a very good thing this little goof was part of the show. It's exactly that small thing Colombo could use.

It was probably deemed impossible to remove this door motion by splicing because she was moving too much at the time of the door motion. Whatever they spliced in would have changed her position too noticeably. They may have tried to cover over the entire door motion, but abandoned it, and left only a couple of frames in.

Once she's standing straight and still, they would be able to take some frames for the purpose of repeating them over the door motion. The only place that they could take from for this repetition is from the end of the 11th second to the start of the 20th, i.e. at which time the door is fully open while she is making little movement in the meantime by standing in the corner. This nine-second stretch provides more than enough video to cover over the door motion between the 9th and 11th seconds, and yet she's moving too much during the 9th and 10th seconds for frames to be inserted.

Due to the splicing in of the first frame, I think I can see the door snap quickly to the fully-open position at the first appearance of the 11th second 15 youtube), but that's the best they could do. One can even detect a slight visible jolt, throughout the scene, and the hall floor seems to change slightly as that first frame is inserted.

It is a very small change in the overall appearance of the video. So why did they bother? It's a huge point, it really is. The production team would have wanted to remove this door movement if the purpose of the video was to make the viewer believe in an elevator malfunction. In other words, we were not to know that she pressed the door-hold button, but with the door re-opening just as she presses the lowest button, she accidentally tips us off. The producers deemed this a liability.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that, in my first day or two of investigating this video, I was sure that she was frightened and being cool-headed as best she could in the midst of a murder plot. The video was having the intended effect on me. You would not have convinced me at the time that she was playing, unless you had the evidence. That evidence came to me when seeing the close-up of the button panel, clearly showing the door-hold button that she pressed. But even then, I did not believe that she was acting. Playing, yes, as when a woman is engaging a potential lover, but not acting as per a movie scene.

If true that the close-door button overrides the hold-door button, then she never once, in all of that fancy fingerwork she exercised, hit the close-door button. This exposes the reality, that she never intended to go down the elevator. Therefore, all of her mad fingerwork was a put-on, a fake, an act. That's why no one can explain it in view of being a real-life event. It wasn't a real-life event. It was an acting job with a purpose.

By the way, there are some insulting / crude writers at the blog pages where the Arkadiy quotes come from, but don't let that draw on me. I'm taking my information from wherever I can. Arkadiy seems to be reliable in a meticulous way that's needed here. Those two little frames at the near-start are important for identifying that the tampering was not from the police nor from the hotel people...if, that is, this video was the real Elisa Lam in a real-life situation. Under such a scenario, neither the police nor a guilty party at the hotel would find it necessary to remove/adjust the small door movement at the 11th second.

THEREFORE, it seems evident that the tampering was done by the video producer(s). Only a producer of a fake-reality show would wish to hide the slight door closing if it compromised the purpose of the production.

However, this is tricky, because no one but the hotel staff / owner was an overseer of the video. Doesn't it suggest that the hotel staff / owner was in cahoots with the producers of the video? Might they have been one and the same? How could the producer(s) of the video possibly edit the video unless he/they were in cahoots with someone at the hotel, or unless they were someone at the hotel?

 

[Jessica222]

Final Part


There you have it, the unbelievable: the video was an acting job.

Having thought about it since writing the last chapter, I've concluded that the door-hold feature does not render the floor buttons inoperable. It explains why the woman, during her second visit to the button panel, has a fit with the buttons and yet doesn't press any other buttons other than the ones she had pressed already. She knew exactly what she was doing, and made sure to hit the door-hold button at least every couple of seconds to assure that pressing other buttons did not activate the door-close. She did not wait in the elevator after pressing the buttons to see whether the door would close, but walked out immediately, knowing it would not close. Yet 99% of people who watch think she was definitely trying to get the door to close. She did not press the door-close button, did she? No, and she didn't press the door-close button when she first pressed the buttons at the start of the video.

If you take careful notice of her face as she turns from the mirror to enter the elevator for this bout with the buttons, you can catch a split-second happiness on her face. It indicates another person out there. Under the circumstance that this was a natural event, not an act, with another person out there, she wouldn't likely be looking straight into the mirror with her hands on her head, adjusting her hair for some 12 seconds (16 youtube time). Instead, it's more likely that she was directed to stand there looking into the mirror and meanwhile letting some of her body show for the camera, and all the while she was talking to someone in the production crew who made her smile. She couldn't get the smile off her face in time not to be caught on camera.

To a question posed on the camera's timestamp, Arkadiy says: "Yes, in left corner is name of the cam, date, time hour:minute:sec:milisec...Seems to be AXIS cam, but I need screen from such cam in good quality, to compare fonts." Here's an example of a crisp view from a surveillance camera by AXIS.
http://www.axis.com/products/video/about_networkvideo/integrated_systems.htm

The poor quality video was not intended to disguise the timer. If the video was not degraded by time / repeated recordings, and if the purpose was not to disguise Elisa Lam, then I suppose the purpose was to make the button panel less visible. Or, to hide the slight door motion...that I did not see for days until reading it from Arkadiy. I had viewed the start of the video several times by then.

I have really nothing to add as to whom may have produced this video beyond what was said in the last chapter concerning the people who were involved in the Dark Water movie, as they may relate to people at Hotel cecil. The question is, how dim do we think the Los Angeles police people are who have access to hotel staff? If it's obvious to a professional video person that someone tried to cover the slight door motion, and that there are snips and other compromises, how can we not expect the police not to know a lot more than we do (about the video) simply because they have power to question the hotel people in person?

The police have said that they've looked through hundreds of hours of video seeking the best shots of Elisa Lam. They apparently had free access to the whole gamut of hotel video. What are the chances that the only video they chose to publicize is this one laced with suspicious markings? I find it hard to believe that shots of Elisa Lam passing the lobby camera would have snips and splices. Ditto for other elevator shots of Elisa Lam, when going normally from her floor to the street. Could we at least hold the Los Angeles police under suspicion of collusion with the hotel and the video producer(s)?

It's not as though this is the video that the hotel would have wanted to give the police, if the police were not in collusion with the hotel's purposes for the video. If the police were not in collusion, and if someone at the hotel is guilty of a crime that it seeks to cover up, then, if it were left up to the hotel to decide which video segment of Elisa Lam to turn into the police, this would definitely not be one of them?

The fact is, the police are responsible for choosing, above and beyond the choice of the hotel, which video to put out there. We can be assured that the hotel manager / owner, if he were guilty of a crime, would not have permitted this video to go to the police in the condition that its in. If the hotel was going to tamper with the video at all under such a scenario of covering its donkey, it would have covered over the entire four minutes with a splice of a closed-elevator shot so as not to attract the police to that part of the video. Instead, the hotel has submitted a shot of a woman / Elisa doing strange things in a butchered segment of video. Hello?

Let's assume that neither the owner nor the manager knew anything about this video, and that both are innocent. Instead, it's a staff member who is the guilty party, a person with access to the security camera's hardware and software. The story doesn't change here. We still expect the guilty staff member to cover over the entire four minutes with a closed-elevator scene...unless it was wanted that the video should go to the police in this condition.

No matter how you cut it, the fact that the hotel staff / manager / owner wanted the video to go to the police in this condition, it smells of police collusion. By this, I purely mean that the police was in agreement with putting out the production from an occult production team. And yes, this production is directly involved with the murder of Elisa Lam. An occult police chief could tolerate a murder if done for a human-sacrifice purpose. There must be some police chiefs in the country who engage human-sacrifice cults.

I speak only from the standpoint of a production. But let's go back, for the sake or argument, to the idea that there was no production, where the police is not in collusion, and where someone at the hotel is privy to, and/or involved in, the murder. The only explanation as to why the guilty party would not submit a closed-elevator scene, instead of the butchered video we are witnessing, is that the one tampering with the video was unable to change the timestamp. In such a case, a splicing of a four minute closed-elevator scene could be detected by noting the wrongful change in the timestamp. However, it can be clearly proven that the timestamp can be, and was, modified.

To show this proof, let's assume that the timestamp is to real time in spite of the video being slowed to 75-percent real speed. The video reveals that the duration of elevator travel between floors is more than eight seconds when stopping at every floor. The time span for the door to close is more than four seconds, with three seconds for the door to open, and four more seconds between opening and closing. We now go to 21:04 in the video (2:47 youtube time), where the door is open with four buttons lit up. We never get to see 21:05, but for the sake of argument, let's assume the door closes from 21:05 to 21:09. Add another eight seconds for to go down to the 10th, and another eleven seconds for the door to open and close again on the 10th, so that at this point, the time is 21:28.

We then add another 19 seconds for the same process to the 7th floor, which brings the time to at least 21:47. In fact, in the video, 42 seconds (25:15 - 25:57) have gone by when the door closes on the 7th floor, meaning that the expected time is indeed 21:47.

We've yet to add 19 seconds for the same process to the 4th floor so that the time at that point would have been 22:06. The elevator now needs to come back up to the 14th floor, but, regardless, it's already past the 22:00 point, the point when we can plainly see the elevator door opening for the woman. It's a nasty question in itself as to why the door opens at exactly 22:00, but, the point is, the elevator could not have made its way down to the 4th, and back up to the 14th again, between 21:05 and 22:00, meaning that the video shot at 21:00 was not truly a shot at that time, but rather, the timestamp for 21:00 was pasted in at 24:00 (i.e. we are never seeing the true scene at 21:00).

And that's how we can know that the hotel staff intended to hand this production into the police, because, if they didn't want the police to have it, they would have spliced in a closed-elevator shot instead, just as easily, just as quickly.

Someone might say, hold on now. What if the timestamp had been slowed to 75 percent of the video speed? Would that allow the elevator to get to the 4th floor and back up again by 22:00? Don't be fooled. The question is irrelevant, because the very admission that the timestamp was slowed down apart from the video being slowed down demands a paste job of the timer. So long as it can be shown that the timestamp was pasted, the editing of the video could have included a near-fullproof four minutes of a closed-elevator scene.

There remains a question as to why they didn't just paste a fluid timer (no gaps) over the messy part from 23:59 to 25:14. Why did they allow the seconds to jump so as to reveal missed seconds? Why not make the visual part of video as best they could according to their needs, and then add a continuous timer on top? For example, why not start with 25:01 where the timer should read 24:01? Perhaps they wanted the snips in, to make us believe that murderers were snipped out. However, we were not supposed to know that it was a production.

The only way for the hotel to be cleared of suspicion of guilt is if the tampering of the video was done by the police. But it was already established that the police would not have tried to remove the small door motion. That discovery was the Colombo moment, the tiny thing that revealed the true story that would otherwise be a confusing question.

Earlier while writing this chapter, I didn't tell you. I broke down in a way I have never felt before. It wasn't a cry, but something like it. I don't know if it was technically a groan, but something like it, and with a taste of a horror right down to the center of my soul, when I realized that she was snuffed in the role of an actress. My reaction indicated to me that I believed it fully. Had I any doubts, I would not have reacted that way. Why did I believe it so strongly? It was such a sudden reaction. I didn't have time to think about it, I just knew. Maybe I was wrong, but "I just knew." So maybe I was right.

This chapter may change or be added to until finalized.






END OF BOOK

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/468677/20130518/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

By DRISHYA NAIR:
May 18, 2013 11:36 AM GMT

Over three months since the death of Canadian tourist Elisa Lam, the truth remains elusive.

 

[findinganatta]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/468677/20130518/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

By DRISHYA NAIR:
May 18, 2013 11:36 AM GMT

Certainly looks like a simple hoax, especially being that it came from halfway across the world from EL, from the same country that this story has had the most traction in.

 

[LittleWing]

Certainly looks like a simple hoax, especially being that it came from halfway across the world from EL, from the same country that this story has had the most traction in.

Yeah. On top of that it has even more impact because of the lack of news on the case. People are messed up for doing stuff like that u_u


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[findinganatta]

LittleWing, I completely agree with everything you said. The assumptions being made on Youtube, here (to a small extent), and other places online seem to be primarily focused on somehow fitting this story into a preexisting narrative that many people believe in (Illuminati, elite cover-ups, cult sacrifices, etc) instead of taking things on a case-by-case basis, trying to stick with evidence, not making big and presumptuous leaps in logic, and not superimposing other agendas on top of this event.

My only big problem with people who espouse these grand conspiracy theories about EL is that the vast majority of them refuse to consider that they could be totally wrong, and in many cases they attack anyone who isn't automatically coming at this from the conspiracy angle. That attitude effectively kills any discussion that isn't about conspiracies. As far as I've seen, this forum is just about the only in-depth, online EL discussion (in English) where that hasn't happened.

I do believe that high-level cover-ups exist and that there are conspiracies surrounding major events. Anyone who doesn't has not studied history. But so far, nothing we know about this case have given any strong indication of that. Sometimes a murder is just a murder, or an accidental death is just an accidental death, suicide just a suicide, etc, so people should remember that. My opinion And Jessica, I'm not referring to you with regard to some of this... you seem like a nice person.

 

[findinganatta]

Yeah. On top of that it has even more impact because of the lack of news on the case. People are messed up for doing stuff like that u_u

It's pretty sick. Probably just a kid who isn't thinking beyond his own amusement.

 

[Jessica222]

I do not see persons in this forum or others whom had bought up the conspirsacy headlines about Elisa Lam's case has had attacked anyone here or in the others, I only see someone who dislike this topic so much so and had tried whatever they could to avoid talking about it.

We all should be open minded, we don't have to believe it but we should know there is something beyond our imagination has had actually happened at all time in unsolved real crimes.

I do not believed a lot of comspiracy things myself honestly, I understand some were merely coinscidence but some were actually happened according to a specific plan.

Somebody had mentioned about FACTS OF THE CASE, yes, we all want the FACTS, but is there anything that we could obtain from the Police or her family so far? No, there is none, not to mention people who works at Cecil, strange right, how could people who worked inside could keep this secret so tight and seamlessly, it needs a very very very good co-operation to do this, people who has had something to do with it or involved would be willing to co-operate in this way.

We all had done something 'naughty' in our lives, something which we don't want to tell or disclose with others, so we need a co-operation from others so that we could keep a secret like this. In order to keep this secret tight and seamlessly, we need these people to join our team, once they became our teamates, secrets could be kept tight and seamlessly forever and ever, until the team demolished.

The LAPD postponed and delayed the medical exam report about Elisa Lam and their purpose is obvious to cool down the heat of discussions, they will continue to do so in an extremely patient manor, days by days, months by months, years by years, until we all shut up, we all gone old.

The only way to push them to work on this as hard as they could and let them know we are still concerned and standby for Elisa Lam and her family or other missing victims and their families is to continue to discuss and give whatever we knew or whatever we have heard to the general public through forum discussions.

We urge the LAPD to give us a FULL AND FRANK report of their investigations about Elisa Lam as soon as possbile.

We urge the LAPD to admit if they are incapble to continue this investigations, if they really want to solve the case, we urge them to seek help, rather to keep the case file down at the basement and locked it away, and pretended nothing had actually happened to Elisa Lam or there is actually no Elisa Lam.

 

[Jessica222]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/468677/20130518/canadian-woman-elisa-lam-death-cecil-hotel.htm

By DRISHYA NAIR:
May 18, 2013 11:36 AM GMT

Apprecaited it, even it shows no progress of the case, at least some journists shows interest and still care about the case, it shown to me that the power of internet forum discussions and it worthes our efforts to continue and keep talking in all dimensions.

 

[Conductor71]

Somebody had mentioned about FACTS OF THE CASE, yes, we all want the FACTS, but is there anything that we could obtain from the Police or her family so far? No, there is none, not to mention people who works at Cecil, strange right, how could people who worked inside could keep this secret so tight and seamlessly, it needs a very very very good co-operation to do this, people who has had something to do with it or involved would be willing to co-operate in this way.

We all had done something 'naughty' in our lives, something which we don't want to tell or disclose with others, so we need a co-operation from others so that we could keep a secret like this. In order to keep this secret tight and seamlessly, we need these people to join our team, once they became our teamates, secrets could be kept tight and seamlessly forever and ever, until the team demolished.

The LAPD postponed and delayed the medical exam report about Elisa Lam and their purpose is obvious to cool down the heat of discussions, they will continue to do so in an extremely patiently manor, days by days, months by months, years by years, until we all shut up, we all gone old.

The only way to push them to work on this as hard as they could and let them know we are still concerned and standby for Elisa Lam and her family or other missing victims and their families is to continue to discuss and give whatever we knew or whatever we have heard to the general public through forum discussions.

We urge the LAPD to give us a FULL AND FRANK report of their investigations about Elisa Lam as soon as possbile.

We urge the LAPD to admit if they are incapble to continue this investigations, if they really want to solve the case, we urge them to seek help, rather to keep the case file down at the basement and locked it away, and pretended nothing had actually happened to Elisa Lam or there is actually no Elisa Lam.

You make some very valid points but one of the things we have all overlooked is that there are legal ramifications involved in deciding a manner of death affecting insurance policies and possible civil suits. The ease in which anyone could get onto the roof and into that water tank leaves both the hotel and the city wide open for lawsuits. If a substance was found in EL like ecstasy and it played a role, they still need evidence she either voluntarily took it or unknowingly was given it by another. The ruling has to backed in the event it were to end up in court. My thinking is that the toxicology report is done but the coroner may be stalling it as LE is still working on gathering evidence.

I agree with you that at this point aliens may have been involved for all we know so nothing can be outright refuted. To play devil's advocate; in actuality, the easiest thing to do would be to rule it an accident especially if there were a conspiracy involved. No one would question it and there would be no need to keep results from the press.

Keep in mind too that once they finalize the toxicological report, the coroner updates the autopsy pending status, and files death record. Case closed. Three months is sufficient time to say hey we just cannot figure this out, so manner of death is officially undetermined. Given that she EL has all but vanished as far as media goes, I think it safe to say that few would question that too.

Autopsy reports are public domain in CA, so they cannot really hide behind that. In fact, the longer it goes with no update the more suspicious it all looks and draws attention to potential conspiracy, IMO. Reporters can file a Freedom of Information Act, and if that were to happen it also looks more like a cover up.

I think that reporters are complying with LE request to not further report because it would compromise their investigation. This says to me homicide. I simply cannot buy that not one reporter has even mentioned her mental health nor interviewed one person other than that bookstore manager in LA. I cannot see any other explanation at this point.

 

[findinganatta]

I do not see persons in this forum or others whom had bought up the conspirsacy headlines about Elisa Lam's case has had attacked anyone here or in the others, I only see someone who dislike this topic so much so and had tried whatever they could to avoid talking about it.

Snipped for space

I wasn't talking about this forum. I was talking about Youtube and other forums. This forum, as I was saying, is one of the few respites from overbearing conspiracy talk when it comes to this case.

As far as people avoiding talking about conspiracies around here, I don't see any problem with that. No one should feel obligated to.

 

[CanManEh]

I just wanted to mention some things i saw in the elevator vid .when she first comes in she presses what looks like 345 of somewhere in that area but she looks normal then she either hears someone or something to make her look out both ways then hide back inside in the corner then goes back out and you can see now she is talking to someone that comes from the left but thier carefull not to step infront on that elevator i think because they know the camera is watching you see her do what i think is point up maybe saying ok ill come up to higher floors then she does that weird stuff with her hands but she isn't drugged she is trying to move her hands in front because of the sensors that will make the door close if your in the way or it can also trigger them to open I know it looks weird but thats what she is doing with her hands and i really think there was someone just outside to the left towords the end of the video..

 

[bessie]

I agree about the hand gestures, CanMan, and I've always thought someone was in the hallway, off camera, but to EL's right, or to the left if facing the elevator.

 

[BlueShoe]

O.K., if there is someone on the right, this could explain her trying to delay the elevator door closing. If she is actually aware of the camera in the elevator, she may realize that the person on her right does not want to appear on camera. So she presses the door open button to be able to leave on the left without that person pursuing. Maybe she is telling the person to go away and let her go or else she will keep the door open indefinitely? The only problem here is why did she not ring the elevator alarm, unless she did, and it did not work. So, back to square one. If she is gesturing to keep the door open, it must be to keep someone away, right? But then why doesn't she use the elevator to try to escape the second time she enters it? Too many gaps for me to figure this out. I now go with the theory that she is somehow confused. I still think there is probably someone out there, but whether friend or foe, I don't know.

Although the elevator-timing problem goes too far for me, I am still intrigued with the missing seconds in the video. Could it be that someone does walk past after EL leaves but before the door closes and that bit has been snipped? Of course we can't know, but it sure is intriguing.

 

[Jessica222]

A month ago, I was being trapped by my residential lift when I intended to take the lift down to the ground floor lift lobby.

When I entered the lift at 15th floor, the lift closed normally after I pushed the close button, all the sudden it stopped, and it stopped at 15th floor as the button is still highlight at that floor, however the lights inside the lift didn't switched off, the ventilation fan is still working, which means, the electricity supply at my building is normal.

I was frighten, so I pushed the Alarm button immediately, the security guard who answered my call, told me the lift seems not functioning right now, he would call a mechnic staff and he will soon arrived to help me out.

I was all alone at that time, when I pushed the Alarm button again coz of panic, the security guard who answered my call asked me to try to push every buttons on the panel and sees what would happen, he wanted to know whether hitting the buttons would triger the panel system and made it normal again, then I followed, I pushed all the buttons, one by one, row by row (but not column by column), because the number sequence on the panel is from left to right, row by row, even I was panic at that time, I followed the number sequence, row by row but not by column, of couse, no lights was on except at the 15th floor, the floor I was entered and trapped. (It worthes people to solve the reason why Elisa Lam was pushing the buttons by column but not by row if the lift was not functioning or in order, however if there is a reason which made Elisa Lam to push the middle column buttons, it worthes the LAPD to solve the mystery.)

I didn't look at the camera when I was talking to the security guard, because the voice receiver is at the panel, people who tried to communicate with the security guards when they inside the lift should stand in front of the panel very close in order to talk to the security guards.

There is no way, we see her talking at the panel because the camera was at her back, so if the video has been altered/edited, slow down or speed up, it easily caused misdirections.

What I am trying to say is, if the video has been edited or altered in a way which only show what the incident had actually happened partially but not fully, and what her reaction inside the lift was not actually what she behaved in real incident, which means, it was a remake video, it was a video not even to edit, delete or altered, it was a remake video.

The girl inside the lift was Elisa Lam, there was no doubt, but it was a remake video.

 

[Pach]

if there are really missing seconds from the elevator video then that points back to the culprits possibly being the hotel or maintenance staff. I would imagine that if that were true, it makes me wonder if any of the staff recently quit or on leave. I imagine the culprit is under a lot of stress and nervousness so he probably quit, or on leave or i bet acting different compared to before,e.g. suddenly being real nice to everyone to compensate for guilt.
assuming, she took a fancy to someone, it would be worthwhile finding out what elise's preferences where in men, did she like asian, white ,black or hispanic, big ,muscles or just toned guys. does anyone on the hotel/maintenance staff matches her preferences in men ? or women ?

alternatively, assuming it was really the hotel/maintenance staff, is there anyone on the hotel or maintenance staff with a history of sexual assault/rape or violence against women ? or stalking or any other weird behavior ?

or how about the hotel tenants do any of them have a criminal history ??

it seems more likely that if there was a perpetrator that he has some sort of history in the police records rather than the killing of elise being a first-time event for the perpetrator, but then who knows...

A month ago, I was being trapped by my residential lift when I intended to take the lift down to the ground floor lift lobby.

When I entered the lift at 15th floor, the lift closed normally after I pushed the close button, all the sudden it stopped, and it stopped at 15th floor as the button is still highlight at that floor, however the lights inside the lift didn't switched off, the ventilation fan is still working, which means, the electricity supply at my building is normal.

I was frighten, so I pushed the Alarm button immediately, the security guard who answered my call, told me the lift seems not functioning right now, he would call a mechnic staff and he will soon arrived to help me out.

I was all alone at that time, when I pushed the Alarm button again coz of panic, the security guard who answered my call asked me to try to push every buttons on the panel and sees what would happen, he wanted to know whether hitting the buttons would triger the panel system and made it normal again, then I followed, I pushed all the buttons, one by one, row by row (but not column by column), because the number sequence on the panel is from left to right, row by row, even I was panic at that time, I followed the number sequence, row by row but not by column, of couse, no lights was on except at the 15th floor, the floor I was entered and trapped. (It worthes people to solve the reason why Elisa Lam was pushing the buttons by column but not by row if the lift was not functioning or in order, however if there is a reason which made Elisa Lam to push the middle column buttons, it worthes the LAPD to solve the mystery.)

I didn't look at the camera when I was talking to the security guard, because the voice receiver is at the panel, people who tried to communicate with the security guards when they inside the lift should stand in front of the panel very close in order to talk to the security guards.

There is no way, we see her talking at the panel because the camera was at her back, so if the video has been altered/edited, slow down or speed up, it easily caused misdirections.

What I am trying to say is, if the video has been edited or altered in a way which only show what the incident had actually happened partially but not fully, and what her reaction inside the lift was not actually what she behaved in real incident, which means, it was a remake video, it was a video not even to edit, delete or altered, it was a remake video.

The girl inside the lift was Elisa Lam, there was no doubt, but it was a remake video.

 

[ClearSight00]

My theory: (I have quite an imagination)

She was drugged with a hallucinogen while in the company of someone she recently met. Someone charismatic and seemingly friendly and genuine, someone who got her to open up and lower her defenses in a short time. Drugging her was part of a twisted game to confuse and terrorize her. I think she was allowed to wander the halls while she was being stalked in some kind of evil cat and mouse game. The guy was playing mind games and toying with her, eventually he leads her back to where ever it was that she was killed.
The killer did not act alone. At least one, but I think two staff members from the hotel knew about what was happening and were a party to the murder. I think the elevator controls were frozen on her floor. She was lead to the non-functioning elevator on purpose to further mess with her head. The killer(s) get pleasure from it.

Leaving Lam's body in the water tanks was not some desperate attempt to get rid of the body. It was an idea that could only come from the most twisted of individuals. Probably a practitioner of black magic, "satanists". The fact that multiple people would end up consuming water that came from the decomposing remains of Lam's body-- was a great joy to the people that did this.

Elisa Lam is not the first to fall prey to this organized trap.

Another aspect of the case, which I find highly suspect, is the behavior of the LAPD. I think this case is bigger than it appears publicly. It would not surprise me if members of the LAPD were involved in some way or had some connection to the individuals "operating" at the hotel. All of this stinks. I get the feeling that someone has tied the police's hands regarding the coroner's findings and toxicology report.

 

[jetsetsam]

This isn't my theory, as I came across it in the chinese forum as part of a very long-winded story about 3 contract killers and how they killed Lisa and disposed of her body in the water tank.

Anyway, an intriguing part of the story was that the killers shut off the valve allowing water to draw down from the tank, in order to conceal the presence of the body in the tank.

Looking at pictures of the pipe network, this looks like it would be possible, and could be an explanation for the low water pressure.

There are water pipe inlets to two tanks, so the inflow of water to the other tank would continue, even with the water outflow from the tank with the body shut off.

There appears to be a flotation system in the 2 inflow tanks that shuts off the water inflow when the tanks are full. Similar to what you would find in the tank of a toilet.

Maybe the maintenance worker, in checking for reasons for the low water pressure, saw the valve was turned off and opened it, leading to the complaints of the foul water, which didn't start until after the discovery of the body was announced.

 

[imanta]

I can't get over the elevator video, and how she just looks drugged. Specifically, drugged on Ambien.

I remember reading about how supposedly Elisa once had blogged about having bipolar induced hypomania and desperately needed sleep. What if she was in an Ambien haze, and it was an accidental death? I've been in Ambien hazes before, and they are very, very bizarre in that you feel like you're awake but also dreaming at the same time; visual and auditory hallucinations are not uncommon either. This could explain Elisa's weird gesturing outside of the elevator. Also, when I had my Ambien haze, I would have moments of lucidity, punctuated by moments of "dreaming." I remember getting out of bed, and walking around my living room, arranging my furniture. At one point, I remember consciously thinking, what the heck am I doing? But then I'd go right back into the weird auto-pilot dream state. I also realized later that I had exceptional strength while in my haze. I managed to move a couch by myself that normally I am unable to move. I did illogical things, in that I recall looking at a cabinet in my kitchen, convinced it was a door and that I wanted to go inside.

Maybe I'm reaching here, but I just couldn't help but to be struck by Elisa's actions in her video. It just reminds me so much of my own Ambien experiences. That coupled with the allegations she was bipolar and had experienced hypomania make me believe it could be possible.

I agree that ambien can cause similar behavior. People on it and not yet fully asleep can do things that might seem a bit strange but still look like they're alert and functioning overall ok.