Theory #1: Stranger Abduction by the "Couple in the Car"

[GraceBlue]

Wow! That is one bizzare story. I hope it is true.

I've read that Anna was called with a long A as in swan. Did the woman say the little girl said her name that way? How did the woman know the little girl's hair was actually dyed or it was just naturally brown? Did she say the little girl had a mole like Anna's?

Is there anything I can do to help in related to searching for this "Bill"? I know I am on the east coast but please do not hestitate to PM or email me if you need help!

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I've read that Anna was called with a long A as in swan. Did the woman say the little girl said her name that way?

I believe so.

How did the woman know the little girl's hair was actually dyed or it was just naturally brown? Did she say the little girl had a mole like Anna's?

I believe that she mentioned that because she knew that Anna was blond (after reading the article) and the girl she meet had dark hair, so she assumed that the hair had been dyed. She did not mention the mole, but the mole is not a pronounced feature on her face.

Is there anything I can do to help in related to searching for this "Bill"? I know I am on the east coast but please do not hestitate to PM or email me if you need help!

I am still working on confirming details about the caller and her life - the more details about herself that she mentioned that can be confirmed lends creedence to other parts of the story. So far, everything about herself that I have investigated has been true.

 

[smile22]

hopefully this new evidence will pan out to be ligit. that we dont have to foucus on the creek anymore.hopefully records will exsist for the rentals and we can find the person we are looking for

 

[mfmangel1]

Would this source have access to records showing addresses of the properties her father owned at that time or does the family still own the properties?

Perhaps we could check census records for that time period....?

 

[itsreenw]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful. This woman seems to recall details that are too specific.

She remembered:
his name was Bill

his occupation

exactly how old she and Anna were at the time and somehow knew the man was in his 40's.

that Anna told her she was abducted because the man's wife wanted a daughter.

Things I find questionable:

She recalled the specifics of the conversation but she didn't remember exactly why he was there-she thought he was there to pay his rent.
Was anyone else home with her? Why let a strange man in the house that came asking for her father who was not home at the time?

What other room was he in when this conversation took place? Was he just wandering around the house while she and Anna were talking? Was he in the restroom? Kitchen? Where were she and Anna in the house?

After hearing Anna's story why not tell her dad immediately if she didn't feel comfortable calling the police.

Is it common to anyone's knowledge, that abductors that intend to keep the child alive would tell her the truth? Seems the abductor would've told Anna her parents were dead, moved away, didin't love her, etc as their reason for taking her. Not simply because his wife couldnt get pregnant-she would have been crying to go home all the time.

What made the year stand out in her mind? She somehow knew the man was in his 40s. How? Then he conveniently provides his exact age. She feels the man's statement that he didn't plan "to live his life in a cage" as a veiled threat but she went on to chastise him about abducting Anna.

If Anna spoke so freely to this girl, surely in 3 years Anna had come in contact with other people. There should be others coming forward that had similar conversations with Anna.

Those are my observations. Sorry if I sound pessimistic. Just don't want to experience another Delia Cly fiasco.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful... Sorry if I sound pessimistic. Just don't want to experience another Delia Cly fiasco.

Your observations are valid, and I also do not want a repeat of the Delia Cly fiasco. I will state that, so far, the details of her story about herself have proved true: Her name and phone number, where she lives, the names and ages of her brother and father, and the fact that her father owned rental properties in the area have all been verified. Had any of these facts proved false, then I would have dismissed this info as fraudulent. However, that these were true lends creedence to the truthfulness of her information about Anna. A Delia Cly situation is still possible (and there are a couple of more things that I want to confirm before we move forward with this info).

Concerning the specific info about the woman's encounter with Anna: some of the questions that you have may be because of my re-telling of her words. I didn't go into great detail about why the man was there at her house, so there may be obvious holes in the story, not because it isn't true as much as I didn't ask the questions to fill in those holes (yet). I also have a lot of questions that will either make this more believable or shoot it down.

 

[SherlockJr]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful....QUOTE]

You have a right to your opinion. I would believe this person has already visited this website along with many other residents of HMB. Why would a person give their real name, address, etc, make something up fearing falsifying a police report? If I were a resident and something about this story triggered a memory I had, I would now almost be afraid to call in the tip realizing that someone would shoot down my credibility so quickly.

The community is reaching out to us on our request. If there are any other residents who want to offer information, they can certainly request Dr Doogie not to post that information on this forum.

 

[Annasmom]

After reading the woman's statements at least 10 times I am inclined to believe that this woman is not truthful....QUOTE]

You have a right to your opinion. I would believe this person has already visited this website along with many other residents of HMB. Why would a person give their real name, address, etc, make something up fearing falsifying a police report? If I were a resident and something about this story triggered a memory I had, I would now almost be afraid to call in the tip realizing that someone would shoot down my credibility so quickly.

The community is reaching out to us on our request. If there are any other residents who want to offer information, they can certainly request Dr Doogie not to post that information on this forum.

Here are some things to consider: The story may be true, false, or partly true. Some of the parties to this story may be dead. The informant's life or Anna's life may have been threatened if the story was divulged before now. The informant may have known the purported abductor. He may have been an itinerant carpenter, not necessarily a licensed contractor. He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

 

[Elberethe]

The first tip from the newspaper article! :woohoo: I believe there are people out there who know something, who may not even know they know something. The publicity is going to shake something loose. We need more of these and the BOOK!! Not to put pressure on you or anything. /snicker

Great work Doogie. Can you verify if her father actually has alheizmers (sp?) because that one struck me weird for some reason. I'm not sure there would be much in the way of records, like most people are thinking. Low income properties tend to be very loosely rented. Seldom even having leases or rental agreements. Often to transient types (farmers, pickers). Construction? Doesn't that usually pay pretty good? Coincidence that Bill is same line of work as Joe Ford and Craig Barrick? Then again, there has been alot of growth so I suppose it isn't too remarkable a coincidence.

I don't want to throw a damp rag on anyone's hopes either, and I'm sure Doogie will get to the bottom of it. I too find it odd that Anna would be telling her story and not have told it to others. I do seriously doubt she was in the school system however (teachers are great confidants to kids and she would have hooked up with one if she knew the truth of her situation). Then, I'm not so sure she knows the truth of her situation. She was young enough she could easily be led to believe something else happened to her. People don't usually have alot of recollection from that age. I suppose the abductor could have told Anna the truth and Anna was sharing that info, but I really kinda doubt she would have stayed missing long if that was true. =*( I think it more likely she was told a lie or threatened.

The "veiled threat" the teenager remembers. I don't get it. How is that a threat? What does it mean? If a person doesn't want to live caged, they usually move. I don't understand how that was a threat. I also find it odd the teenager didn't at least tell her dad about the man/threat/stolen child. She never told any of her friends in all that time? She never told anyone? For me as a teenager to keep quiet about something like that, I would have to be very heavily into drugs/booze (couldn't care less) or the threat would have had to be more implicit (You say anything and I will KILL YOU and your little dog!)

As for remembering the exact year. That isn't hard to do. You aren't a teenager for long. Depending on circumstances in your life, it is pretty easy to pin down a year (or at least would be for me). I do find it odd the man volunteered his age (to confirm that yes, he is in his 40's)? I don't see him as having anything to prove. Here you have an abductor who just got caught and he doesn't make any *real* threats? Maybe, by saying he didn't want to be caged, he meant he would just move far from the area. He would still have Anna telling her story at every possible moment though. She really didn't tell her dad because of a threat he didn't want to be caged? Something not working for me there.

It could be a bad lead. That is always a possibility. It could also be someone who knows something, but doesn't want to be completely honest about what they know. Consider this scenerio. Bill is a family member. Not her dad, but say an uncle or even very close friend of the family. Someone you wouldn't want to get in trouble (no threats needed). Someone you might have wished would do the right thing, but someone you really don't want harm to come to. Maybe even someone you can half way sympathize with.

Suffice it to say, given the info we have so far, my gut reaction is the person isn't being honest. The better question would be WHY aren't they being honest. Either way, good work checking the story out Doogie. I also think you should let the police know about the tip. They have more resources to determine the credibility and follow up on any further leads. Besides, this isn't really a closed case. I think you are kinda obligated to let the police know (hint, hint).

Will be keeping a candle lit that this turns up something useful. I can so see Anna trying to tell her story. Makes me seriously wonder how she has stayed hidden. I still go for homeschooling and keeping her pretty disconnected from anyone she could tell. Eventually, she forgets or is led to believe another truth? Still, unless she was kept locked in a basement or upstairs room (couple of recent cases) and no one knew about her, then there should be family members/friends who know something is amiss. How willing would be they be to come forward? How much would Anna still remember of her ordeal? If she was trying to talk to people, she would remember that much. It would still be there in her memory even if it was locked away.

I think the publicity is going to shake something loose. :woohoo:

 

[Elberethe]

Here are some things to consider: The story may be true, false, or partly true. Some of the parties to this story may be dead. The informant's life or Anna's life may have been threatened if the story was divulged before now. The informant may have known the purported abductor. He may have been an itinerant carpenter, not necessarily a licensed contractor. He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

Hehe, we cross posted. See my thoughts on why I believe this person isn't being honest. You got it. She may know the abductor.

Good job.

 

[Elberethe]

He may have worked for her father and may have been doing work on the property. He may have lived in a motor home or trailer.

Annasmom, I keep thinking of my dream too and this is more the reason why. You and I think so much alike that I doubt there is much I could tell you that you don't already know. Remember when I said it is possible to live in HMB and not be known? This is how I did it. I worked for someone there and lived on their property in a trailor (with my boyfriend). We also stole all their booze and they never did figure out what happened to it! ~laughs~ I was a mess in my younger days, but suffice it to say, alot can happen in HMB that the community is not aware of.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

The first tip from the newspaper article!

Actually, this would be the third call as a result of the article. The first was from Anna's bus driver CK who we had been trying to locate. She stated that she did recall seeing some white vehicles parked on PC Road, near where it ends at Hwy. 1, but nothing suspicious beyond that. The second call was from a current resident of PC Road who stated that the previous owner of her house had been convicted of murder and buried his victim on his property (about a mile or so from where Anna disappeared). I am working on exploring his history and his possibility of involvement in Anna's disappearance (coincidently, he was a construction contracter also, but other details about him do not match this new information, so I doubt that the two tips are related).

I believe there are people out there who know something, who may not even know they know something. The publicity is going to shake something loose. We need more of these and the BOOK!! Not to put pressure on you or anything. /snicker

Non-pressure duly noted - LOL!

Can you verify if her father actually has alheizmers (sp?) because that one struck me weird for some reason.

The father is 90 years old, so this is believable to me. I will admit that him being unavailable to verify parts of this story is somewhat suspicious, but does not seem too out of the question.

I'm not sure there would be much in the way of records, like most people are thinking. Low income properties tend to be very loosely rented. Seldom even having leases or rental agreements. Often to transient types (farmers, pickers).

It would depend on how thorough the father was in his record-keeping. The infamous Box from Hell contains every bank statement and every correspondance that GW ever wrote since 1967 (mostly because GW was compulsive about record keeping). If the father was as thorough, he may still have records. I, on the other hand, keep nothing on file from even last month.

Construction? Doesn't that usually pay pretty good? Coincidence that Bill is same line of work as Joe Ford and Craig Barrick? Then again, there has been alot of growth so I suppose it isn't too remarkable a coincidence.

I had considered, that since construction was specifically mentioned, that perhaps there was a tie-in to perhaps a co-worker of Joe's that had overheard a conversation about Anna and "chose" her as a result. Joe does not recall any co-worker who fits that description and says that he was an apprentice and kept to himself for the most part and wouldn't have discussed his family with any co-workers.

The pay for construction workers varies quite a bit: a journeyman union worker would have made a pretty good wage, while a non-union general laborer would have made substantially less.

About the coincidence of the abducter, Joe and Barick all being in construction: the fact that Joe was a construction worker was not mentioned in article. Unless the tipster came to this website and read the entire thread to glean that fact before making her call, there is no way that she would have known this.

...I too find it odd that Anna would be telling her story and not have told it to others...Then, I'm not so sure she knows the truth of her situation. She was young enough she could easily be led to believe something else happened to her. People don't usually have alot of recollection from that age. I suppose the abductor could have told Anna the truth and Anna was sharing that info, but I really kinda doubt she would have stayed missing long if that was true...

I am also uncomfortable with this detail of the story, but I cannot dismiss it outright. Anna's statements seem to display an unusually mature and deep understanding of her situation for an eight year old. However, enough of this case is illogical, yet true (How many people would believe that an Ivy League educated physician making $75,000 a year in the 1970's would be living in a sleazy hotel with a crazy guru as his mentor?).

The "veiled threat" the teenager remembers. I don't get it. How is that a threat? What does it mean? ...

The tipster did not specifically call the statement about "living in a cage" a threat. I used that term based on reading between the lines of what she was saying - and I could be wrong in that interpetation.

It could be a bad lead. That is always a possibility. It could also be someone who knows something, but doesn't want to be completely honest about what they know. Consider this scenerio. Bill is a family member. Not her dad, but say an uncle or even very close friend of the family. Someone you wouldn't want to get in trouble (no threats needed). Someone you might have wished would do the right thing, but someone you really don't want harm to come to. Maybe even someone you can half way sympathize with.

I got the distinct feeling that there is more to the story than I was being told. I probed as much as I could without driving her away, but there are more details to be discovered in future conversations.

...I also think you should let the police know about the tip. They have more resources to determine the credibility and follow up on any further leads. Besides, this isn't really a closed case. I think you are kinda obligated to let the police know (hint, hint).

There are a couple of things that I want to accomplish before we turn this over to LE: First, I want to establish in my mind that this is most likely true (I don't want to publically state what means are being used to confirm this presently). Secondly, I want to be sure that the tipster is willing to tell her story to LE. I have tried hard to have a good working relationship with the local LE - if I brought them a hot tip that fell apart upon any review, it would damage whatever trust we have been able to build with them.

 

[Dr. Doogie]

...Remember when I said it is possible to live in HMB and not be known? This is how I did it. I worked for someone there and lived on their property in a trailor (with my boyfriend). We also stole all their booze and they never did figure out what happened to it! ~laughs~ I was a mess in my younger days, but suffice it to say, alot can happen in HMB that the community is not aware of.

Interestingly, the meeting between the tipster and Anna (if true) occured only about four blocks from where Annasmom lived (and about one and a half blocks from where I lived at the time).

 

[Elberethe]

Interestingly, the meeting between the tipster and Anna (if true) occured only about four blocks from where Annasmom lived (and about one and a half blocks from where I lived at the time).

Ok, 3rd tip then! Wow, that is alot! The guy who murdered and buried in his yard is terrible though. I wonder if his victim was random or known to him. There must be some news account of that too, I would think. I don't remember anything like that, but I wasn't into true crime as much back then as I am now. Still, think something like that one would remember it. How long ago did this happen? The murder/burial?

Yah, it is close. I dreamed it was, but since I have often wondered how they kept it hidden. I see other cases where it is, but I guess I just don't want to believe Anna lives or ever lived under those conditions. Glad you picked up on the "there is more to the story" from the teenager. I can understand only wanting to give credible tips to the police. I can also understand wanting to make sure you have someone willing to cooperate. Still, isn't all tips suppose to go to the police? They can't loose faith over bad tips ... they are suppose to take all. Not your fault if one is bad. Just don't want you to get in trouble for something stupid like "impeding an investigation" even tho there isn't much of one going on. Know what I mean?

Well, I have to be off now. Talk to you all later. You won't be far from my thoughts. :blowkiss:

 

[Dr. Doogie]

The guy who murdered and buried in his yard is terrible though. I wonder if his victim was random or known to him. There must be some news account of that too, I would think. I don't remember anything like that, but I wasn't into true crime as much back then as I am now. Still, think something like that one would remember it. How long ago did this happen? The murder/burial?

This occured in the early 1990's. We have been able to trace this guy living on PC Road as far back as 1981, but not farther. Also, the murder was over money between acquaintances. I should have more info by the beginning of next week concerning this guy, but for now it is just a known bad-guy who lived near where Anna disappeared at a much later date. Absent any additional incriminating info, it is most likely unrelated.

The murderer in question was named Ronald R. Middleton. The victim's name was Henry Olson.

 

[Gina_M]

When the man was in another room, the girl identified herself as "Anna" and that the man was not her father. Anna stated that the man had taken her because his wife couldn't have children and she wanted a daughter. Anna asked the teenager to "Tell my mother that I am okay", but didn't want to do anything that would get her new parents in trouble. Anna's hair had been died dark brown.

When the man returned to the room, he realized what had been discussed and stated that he didn't want to "live the rest of his life in a cage". The teenager interpeted this as a veiled threat to keep quiet about what she had heard. As the man and Anna were leaving, the teen told the man that "You are in your forties - you're old enough to know better than to do this!". The man stopped, turned to her and replied, "I am forty-seven." She described him as stocky, about 5' 8" or taller with light brown short hair. She stated that he was a construction worker and that Anna referred to him as "Bill".

OMG...when I read this post, I must say my jaw dropped wide open and my heart started racing! After reading some of the replies I can see why we should be cautious...but I still think there is a good possibility that it's true. Anna, if this girl was Anna, did seem to display a very mature and deep understanding of the situation for her age. But from everything I've read about Anna (Annasmom can verify this ), she was very mature for her age.

Oh, and it is easy (for me) to remember the exact year something happened, especially when I was young. We often tie significant events in our memory with what grade we were in school, or something else significant. For example, "I know *advertiser censored* happened in 1993 because it was right before I graduated from high school". So that part seems very credible to me

 

[Dr. Doogie]

I have discovered new information that raises questions about the reliability of our witness. Her sincerity is not in question, just the truthfulness of her testimony.

Her information may still be of value, but it certainly means that much more needs to evaluated before any involvement by LE or the media is considered.

 

[Annasmom]

I have discovered new information that raises questions about the reliability of our witness. Her sincerity is not in question, just the truthfulness of her testimony.

Her information may still be of value, but it certainly means that much more needs to evaluated before any involvement by LE or the media is considered.

It seems as if Doogie's caution was justified in this case, which should come as no surprise. Our responses told a lot about us, actually, whether hopeful, optimistic, pessimistic. Curiously, my reaction was fear...and it has taken all weekend to get over it. Planting five of the baby ferns from the Birthday mother fern helped.

 

[mfmangel1]

It seems as if Doogie's caution was justified in this case, which should come as no surprise. Our responses told a lot about us, actually, whether hopeful, optimistic, pessimistic. Curiously, my reaction was fear...and it has taken all weekend to get over it. Planting five of the baby ferns from the Birthday mother fern helped.

Annasmom-

I believe we all had our guards up regarding this lead. I am so saddend that you were actually experiencing fear over this source of info.
Perhaps you knew best.
However, I know that no one here wishes to put you through any more negative emotions, so for that, I apologize. There has already been too much pain.
Hopefully we can move forward and the next lead will be a more positive
step toward finding Anna.

 

[Annasmom]

I know that no one here wishes to put you through any more negative emotions, so for that, I apologize. There has already been too much pain.Hopefully we can move forward and the next lead will be a more positivestep toward finding Anna.

Mfangel1, anything that might give us information is not painful, and I was afraid because I'm just a wimp. However, I have to tell you that knowing I have you all behind me makes me much braver (though still not as brave as Doogie.)
:blowkiss: