TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[glorias]

Isn't that the implication behind the allegations that Gail had delusions? I don't believe the specific word has been used before, but that's the way I understood it.

Delusions aren't specific to schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder. Many mental illnesses have paranoia, delusions, mild to severe hallucinations. The implications of "paranoid" and "delusional" don't point to one specific mental disorder, and both those words are used so often as colloquial descriptors that it's possible no specific mental condition was even implied.

It's like some of us said way at the beginning of the case, people often pull the "my ex was psycho" stuff when they break up, but they don't mean specifically "psychotic". They're just bashing and venting.

Frankly, I don't personally think we know enough about these claims of being "flat f-- up" or "paranoid" or "delusional" to make much of them. And since Susie, Arlene, Diane, and even LE all said there was no evidence of Gail being delusional anyway, I wonder how far we should even believe Matt's claims. Because it's only Matt and his lawyer (who may or may not be quoting Mr. G) who are saying Gail had mental problems.

 

[glorias]

SMM interview clamored for the FBI. My point is that she does not know whether they are working it already. You are confirming the family called. All I am saying is that just because the media does not know if TBI and or FBI is on the case, does not mean they are not.

Right, and I THOUGHT I was agreeing with you. I was trying to, at any rate. Sorry if you thought I was arguing.

What is going on here today, anyway? Sheesh.

 

[believe09]

Right, and I THOUGHT I was agreeing with you. I was trying to, at any rate. Sorry if you thought I was arguing.

What is going on here today, anyway? Sheesh.

No, friend, it is all good. I didnt think you were arguing, I thought I was unclear. ((hugs))

 

[lalalu]

OK - this is bugging me...

EARLY on, the story was that Gail all of a sudden left early from the lake in AL and drove back to Signal Mtn. I don't quite recall if AD was away from her own property then or if she just hadn't seen GP leave or what. Now AD is speaking of things (computer bag and boat key)that she knew GP had with her when she left. This new story is inconsistent with the original story.

And also AD stating that Matt must have seen GP that last day as he seemed to have the boat key that Gail had with her.

I am wondering if these new statements are being generated in order to try to encourage a premature arrest? (I have no clue if anything like this could happen really.) If MP is involved though, might all this ruin the chances of conviction if LE acted too soon?

And if he is not involved, just who has been up to what?

Ugh! Don't roast me for questioning AD...I just cant shake these nagging questions.

 

[MacGyver]

A women who disappeared after becoming increasing distraught after uncovering information about her husband (and therefore her life, and the future lives of her children) that was tremendously stressed- and I imagine infuriated, depressed, and scared- and was in the process of both realizing that, and trying to figure out how best to climb out of the darkness she had suddenly found herself in.

MOO, but forget the schitzophrenia or mental illness approach until we see ANY type of documentation that Gail was treated for anything of that sort. And even then, take into account that it appears she was struggling with the prospect of her entire life crumbling before her very eyes.

Ok- off rant here- but can we somehow get back to helping, and not hurting, the search for finding Gail and/or her jeep??

As someone who was in occasional contact with GP every year, when I think about our conversations now, she was planning and taking everything in stride. She never said anything specific, but now I can read between the lines.

She was loving being a stay at home mom and getting to spend more time with her kids. I used to ask her, "what do you want to be when you grow up?" She said she wanted to take her time to figure it out.

 

[BeanE]

Whoa, where did the schizophrenia come into this? I don't recall seeing that mentioned before, but could have missed it. That completely changes the WHOLE thing and certainly makes some of the info more understandable. I have studied schizophrenia in-depth and can say that it is really a mess to deal with, for everyone and anyone involved. I would like to see the links to this... Thanks

I don't know who brought up schizophrenia, but from what I know of it, from a relative who has it, and 2 friends in my younger years who had it, and from what I've been researching, I don't think at all that Gail is schizophrenic. I just haven't seen anything to indicate it.

 

[glorias]

snipped...

OK - this is bugging me...

EARLY on, the story was that Gail all of a sudden left early from the lake in AL and drove back to Signal Mtn. I don't quite recall if AD was away from her own property then or if she just hadn't seen GP leave or what. Now AD is speaking of things (computer bag and boat key)that she knew GP had with her when she left. This new story is inconsistent with the original story.

And also AD stating that Matt must have seen GP that last day as he seemed to have the boat key that Gail had with her.

No, you're 100% right, these statements aren't making a lot of sense. Only if AD's computer bag is still in the Jeep right now would Matt having that boat key be important. The location of the computer bag is just not verifiable. Since AD didn't even know Gail left that morning, how can she possibly know if the computer bag was in the Jeep or not? It could have been left behind in the lake house, dropped off at the Signal Mountain home before Gail left about 12:15. Or Matt may even have a copy of it that AD doesn't know about.

I think AD is piecing things together herself and jumping to conclusions, personally. Either that or she's outing herself as having a lot more information, and not just from the papers Gail gave her.

 

[BeanE]

snipped...



The only thing we know is that early on, KN said the FBI had been called. Since then, nothing about the FBI has been reported as far as I know. If they claim they have more info about that, then that's yet another claim they've made that no one else can substantiate. Frankly, that particular list is getting a little long for my taste.

I think Arlene was just referring to the brother calling the FBI. Then SMM went on a long involved tangent, including wanting to "usurp" the case.

 

[BeanE]

Isn't that the implication behind the allegations that Gail had delusions? I don't believe the specific word has been used before, but that's the way I understood it.

I haven't seen any mention of schizophrenia. There are many conditions that can cause someone to become delusional or paranoid besides schizophrenia.

 

[BeanE]

I am puzzled that MP would go outside of the state for representation in a lawsuit against a TN company. As others pointed out, the atty would have to be licensed in TN of course. Perhaps it is a family friend who is doing a favor for MP.

Some lawyers practice in more than one state that are near each other.

I check the news several times a day, and still haven't seen any mention of it. Nothing on twitter from the reporters either.

 

[Pearl*]

I don't get when Arlene reads out the message from LE:

Your actions today were criminally negligent and interfering with a police investigation. Any further actions will result in criminal charges against you.

SMM's reaction, slamming LE, practically shouting, cursing. That's a strong message. She doesn't even ask Arlene what it was that she had done that day.

IMO, SMM is a menace. She's really fanning the flames with Arlene, and Arlene is upset and emotional right now. Of course she's going to react.

I can't tell if SMM is trying to sell books, resolve her own personal conflicts from the past, or both. She needs to take a step back though. She's waaaayyyy overboard.

My opinion.

I completely agree, and of course, the interview is what prompted the rant I posted last night. Enough rant though. I listened to the interview again today and did a transcription for the benefit of people who maybe don't have an hour to listen to it. I didn't transcribe but a small portion, enough to make the point, I believe. I certainly have no desire to repeat all the information Arlene gave in the beginning of the interview. Mods, I tried to disguise the offensive language, but it is what it is. And I think SMM's manner of presentation is most relevant:

http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/821

Partial transcription from radio broadcast June 23, 2011:

timesupforjustice@gmail.com to contact SMM (address given in broadcast)

• Susan Murphy Milano
• Guest: Arlene
• Guest: Robert Rarn, “Works for Missing Persons for Intimate Partner,” NYSleuths.com: Management Resources of NY, President and Director of Investigations, retired New York former homicide detective (30 years experience)
• Guest: Kim Anklin (Robert Rarn’s partner), Vice President, senior investigative analyst, former crime and intelligence analyst from [unintelligible] police department…

No phone calls taken because… “respect…we don’t want screaming or yelling…”
…
[Early portions of program relate to proper handling of missing person cases in general, expertise of the guests, specific details of Gail’s case as related by Arlene (and including evidence Gail shared with her), and comments of specific mistakes the panel believes have been made to this point)]

Transcription begins 49 minutes into program:

RR: What needs to happen now is that the family needs to hire a private investigator to investigate her disappearance?
SMM: You know what? Why should they? Ok, those that are listening right now, Bob, why the h@#$ should they hire anybody? Why can’t the police do its job, or why can’t, because of this, somebody usurp this?
[now all talking at once]
SMM: Somebody…
KA: Why can’t they just quit being territorial about it?
RR: It doesn’t sound like they are taking this seriously.
KA: Because this is what happens, like you said, you know, it’s the same story, it’s unfortunately…
SMM: So, would she be better off, because of this corruption and garbage, if she went to cold case or the AG’s office there. Is that an alternative, or the US Attorney’s office? I don’t think they would do much, but there’s got to be a body.
RR: The first step would be the Attorney General’s Office, and then the next step would be with the Federal.
SMM: Because so much time, here, eight weeks has gone by. Eight weeks she’s gone. Missing. Not a word. She’s not here, and so what, all that time that’s past with these things that, I think because Arlene has not been sat down and really spoken to, because I think that if people had seen, in positions of power, all the information and just talked to her, they’d be able to paint the picture, so Kim Anklin, when that happens, how important is it for investigation very early on?

[more discussion on proper procedures for the early phase of an investigation]

AD: A month after she disappeared, I was someplace, and was going back to Chattanooga, and I got a text from the police department, telling me the your actions today were criminally negligent, interfering with a police investigation, and any further actions will result in criminal charges against you.
SMM: Look at that! Look at that! Wait, wait, wait! Stop! Wait, wait, wait! Oooo, my God, Mother of God, she is the one that, criminal actions will result in her, why the h$%^ aren’t they going to look for her? You know, they’re tagging the friend for helping, for saying we have to find her, and they’re threatening her when they won’t even do their God d#$% jobs?

[more rant regarding “all of these cases”]
…
RR: I’m thinking get it out into the media. Get the media’s attention and force another law enforcement agency to get involved. Just by pressuring through the media…. [various agencies suggested] Why can’t they [TBI] get involved?

[discussion about missing person cases in general terms]
…
SMM: We’re not going to go away on Gail’s case, and Arlene isn’t going to go away, and we are going to keep surfacing all of this information, getting it out there, until she is found or until they do their jobs. I’m going to be the biggest pit bull on this case.

 

[believe09]

SMM said corruption? Head shaking.

 

[JBean]

I am going to start a new thread here shortly.where this post lands is random.

but as for Gail's mental condition, we just don't know so let's be careful about even guessing.
We have had reports both ways, but we have no idea what the truth is so it becomes very difficult to discuss.

Here is what we know: her dh says she had been delusional and paranoid the past few weeks prior to her disappearance.
The attorney friend from AL said she was flat *advertiser censored** up out of her mind.
LE says they have not seen anything to support that she had any mental issues
Her friends and family say they did not notice any type of mental instability.
Her sister Diane did say she was frightened, confused, and anxious when she spoke to her last on 4/30.

add it all up and we know nothing about her mental state except, that it is fairly safe to assume, she was very concerned,upset,or fearful about something either real or imagined.

Depending on how you interpret the info, state your opinion. IF she was mentally ill then >>>>
IF she was just upset and aggravated then>>>>
IF she was totally in her right mind then>>>>

Arguing about something that we cannot argue with any solid clear cut information is going to drive us all mad.

Where is Gail? I will be starting a new thread in a minute, so let's all chill and try this again.

 

[Pearl*]

I haven't seen any mention of schizophrenia. There are many conditions that can cause someone to become delusional or paranoid besides schizophrenia.

Understood. I think that just may be one of the first thoughts that comes to mind with the term "delusional," and that may have been how the term was first introduced on the thread. (I didn't bring it up) I don't think we have any evidence that ANY mental illness has been diagnosed, and I sure would hate for that term to "stick" because of the stigma of the word (which I know is not deserved but it is a fact, that a stigma exists).

 

[JBean]

Some lawyers practice in more than one state that are near each other.

I check the news several times a day, and still haven't seen any mention of it. Nothing on twitter from the reporters either.

My brother practices in Illinois and California.

 

[JBean]

We have absolutely nothing to confirm that the atty friend in AL is representing Matt in the wrongful termination suit.
I will say that very often what AD says is often subequently backed up, and she is most often right on. but until it is let's leave it alone.

 

[BeanE]

Understood. I think that just may be one of the first thoughts that comes to mind with the term "delusional," and that may have been how the term was first introduced on the thread. (I didn't bring it up) I don't think we have any evidence that ANY mental illness has been diagnosed, and I sure would hate for that term to "stick" because of the stigma of the word (which I know is not deserved but it is a fact, that a stigma exists).

No, you're right, I haven't seen any diagnosis of mental illness either, and as I've pointed out, paranoia and delusion can be caused by any number of things other than mental illness - I'd mentioned head injury, medications such as anti-depressants, ingestion of chemical substances. There are more things than that that can cause them too. Inhalation of substances in the environment such as carbon monoxide, etc.

 

[MacGyver]

Thank you for this perspective. Can you give any more details without breaking a confidence? Such as what DN would like to be happening with media, including WS? Personally, I'll stop posting immediately if the family believes this type of forum is harming them in any way.

I did not ask her about WS, just if there was anything I could possibly do. She just said they are working on GP's disappearance everyday. If they are favoring GP's approach, I'm guessing that you will not see them in the media unless deemed necessary.

 

[JBean]

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6757843#post6757843"]TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[fran]

Fran, what have you seen work in the other cases? And why do we think no one is looking for Gail?

Sorry for not answering you earlier Pearl. I've been watching the trial of another case.

IF local LE doesn't follow through on a case, it's difficult to get anyone interested. AMW doesn't want a case unless LE will talk to them. The EquaSearch group won't do searches unless invited by LE. The only thing Sometimes that's difficult, depending on what's been happening around the country at that time. Like now there's the Casey Anthony case in Florida which has news agencies from around the world camped out on the court steps and broadcasting live the trial and nightly news programs dedicated to nothing but that trial and all the drama.

Locally, they could have a candle light vigil and invite the media. There's groups such as the Sund Foundation, which often times will contribute to a reward and make media announcements of such.

There's a number of programs such as GMA, Nancy Grace (she's in Florida for the Anthony Case), local programming. Sometimes it just takes ONE news reporter to become interested in the case that may help keep the case alive and in the public eye.

Unfortunately I've seen a number of cases, like Gail's, that get a week or two of attention and fall off the radar and still are unsolved today. Sometimes it may take a few months for a case to die down, but some loose steam much sooner, as this one has. It's the family and friends that have to keep chugging along and HOPE that just one, just one RIGHT person will become involved that will help the case come to a close, AFTER the case is solved.

JMHO
fran