GUILTY TN - Rev. Matthew Winkler, 31, shot to death, Selmer, 23 March 2006

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=7144468

 

[Annie]

Mary's attorney says the judges who issued the stay have never even seen the transcripts of the hearing. I bet they have seen enough of Mary Winkler to know she is a dangerous woman. I can't believe anyone would want to put children in the care of a woman who could do what she did only a year and a half ago. I know this was just visitation, but I think Mary should just let her children settle down and put this behind them as much as possible. Maybe later on she could gradually be allowed back into their lives. No child should ever have to see what Mary's children saw.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary's attorney says the judges who issued the stay have never even seen the transcripts of the hearing. I bet they have seen enough of Mary Winkler to know she is a dangerous woman. I can't believe anyone would want to put children in the care of a woman who could do what she did only a year and a half ago. I know this was just visitation, but I think Mary should just let her children settle down and put this behind them as much as possible. Maybe later on she could gradually be allowed back into their lives. No child should ever have to see what Mary's children saw.

I agree Annie. I think all Judges in the area are very familiar with the Mary Winkler case. Remember Mary's attorney, Turner, had already filed an appeal before this court and their's was denied.

I actually think it would be best if the visits started out at a court appointed psychiatrist's office in group therapeutic sessions until such time he/she could be assured this is the best thing for the girls or that it is causing more pain than gain by being forced to be around their mother.

imoo

 

[Nore]

I agree Annie. I think all Judges in the area are very familiar with the Mary Winkler case. Remember Mary's attorney, Turner, had already filed an appeal before this court and their's was denied.

I actually think it would be best if the visits started out at a court appointed psychiatrist's office in group therapeutic sessions until such time he/she could be assured this is the best thing for the girls or that it is causing more pain than gain by being forced to be around their mother.

imoo

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Hi Ocean and Annie, more pain than gain!! the
right words.If the girls are showing signs of being more secure,putting the horrible tragedy out of their minds~the last thing they need is to see their mother.Does she realize at all what she exposed the two older girls to? It is all about Mary and what Mary wants.Mary thought she was going to serve her few months and it's over~well she should think again! Another thing.I just read on the first url you posted Ocean,(again Mary) says she doesn't remember getting the gun.On a recent url posted here on W.S. I distinctly remember reading Mary didn't know the gun was loaded. Now which is it Mary? Yet she stood on two pillows to balance? I agree with all~she should never have those girls again.Prayers go out for the Grandparents...IMO

ETA: A child can remember traumatic happenings.I was 7 yrs. when my (real) father pushed my mother against the kitchen wall and punched her,breaking her nose.When her eyes turned black he called her "the horse with the lavender eyes!"
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my stepdad,whom I loved deeply died in France~Infantry,Oct.1st,1944...Children dont forget!!

 

[bowie]

Mary said that the children need all their family. Wouldn't that include their father also. Apparently, she didn't care if they had all their family when she was shooting their father. Too late now!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

------------
Hi Ocean and Annie, more pain than gain!! the
right words.If the girls are showing signs of being more secure,putting the horrible tragedy out of their minds~the last thing they need is to see their mother.Does she realize at all what she exposed the two older girls to? It is all about Mary and what Mary wants.Mary thought she was going to serve her few months and it's over~well she should think again! Another thing.I just read on the first url you posted Ocean,(again Mary) says she doesn't remember getting the gun.On a recent url posted here on W.S. I distinctly remember reading Mary didn't know the gun was loaded. Now which is it Mary? Yet she stood on two pillows to balance? I agree with all~she should never have those girls again.Prayers go out for the Grandparents...IMO

ETA: A child can remember traumatic happenings.I was 7 yrs. when my (real) father pushed my mother against the kitchen wall and punched her,breaking her nose.When her eyes turned black he called her "the horse with the lavender eyes!"
--------------
my stepdad,whom I loved deeply died in France~Infantry,Oct.1st,1944...Children don't forget!!

Good Bless Step-fathers. So many of them are unsung heroes.

I still shake my head about this case Nore. I don't know if Farese and Mary think everyone has an IQ lower than a box of rocks or that they think if they confuse, change, rearrange the story that somehow all sane people's eyes will just glaze over and not pick up on the glaring outright lies told by this one woman.

As you know I have been a crime buff for more years than I want to think about and I have never seen one quite like this one. I literally can't keep up with Mary's stories! They change like a chameleon.

She cant remember getting the gun?
Oops scratch that now she remembers she was going to get the gun and point it at her bad arse abuser so he would listen to her?
Oops now she remembers she thought it was unloaded?

She said as he lay dying he asked "Why?"
Oops...again scratch that.......NOW she says he didnt say a word.

Okay if we believe Mary's crap then why in the world would she point an unloaded gun at a man that she said she wanted to intimidate so he would listen to her? If he kept it unloaded then he would immediately know Mary didn't know beans about guns (so says Mary) and he would take that gun away from her and if he was that bad of an abuser he would have beat the stuffings out of her or worse.

If she was being grossly abused would she have the wherewithal and b*lls to enter a room where she NOW (sigh) says he wasn't sleeping but AWAKE and had his back to her? So she enters the room where her husband is awake.......walks past the bed......goes to the closet......takes the gun out of its case......comes back balances on the pillows, puts the gun to her shoulder and magically snaps...just as the shotgun fires and hits him right square in the back and then makes a statement that "it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be." And all this time Matthew Winkler never turned around once? Does that make sense? NO! NO! NO! lol

This case without a doubt is one case where justice was not served and I don't know who I feel the sorriest for.... Matthew who's reputation was shredded to get a killer off, the poor Winkler family or Matthew's precious children. My heart breaks for all the many victims in this case.

Farese won this case on fluff and trash..shock and awe and Mary's little downtrodden mousy look......he knew if he could make the jury hate Matthew and paint him as a bad man that she would get a lessor charge. This was and always will be a first degree murder case imo. It is a mockery and a black mark on our justice system imo.

To know she is Scott free and not one thing she said was proven in court about her husband is beyond sickening. It is unforgivable for it to happen in a court of law in our country imo when everything is supposed to be based on facts in evidence. Not one thing did they find except the thumbnail *advertiser censored* in the deleted file. That's it. The wig and shoe was NOT in the parsonage of Matthew Winkler.......they were only tools that the defense used to inflame the jury.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary said that the children need all their family. Wouldn't that include their father also. Apparently, she didn't care if they had all their family when she was shooting their father. Too late now!!

Yes it absolutely does and those girls deserve to have their father in their lives. She had no right to take away their choices and replace them with nightmares.

imoo

 

[fundiva]

Good Bless Step-fathers. So many of them are unsung heroes.

I still shake my head about this case Nore. I don't know if Farese and Mary think everyone has an IQ lower than a box of rocks or that they think if they confuse, change, rearrange the story that somehow all sane people's eyes will just glaze over and not pick up on the glaring outright lies told by this one woman.

As you know I have been a crime buff for more years than I want to think about and I have never seen one quite like this one. I literally can't keep up with Mary's stories! They change like a chameleon.

She cant remember getting the gun?
Oops scratch that now she remembers she was going to get the gun and point it at her bad arse abuser so he would listen to her?
Oops now she remembers she thought it was unloaded?

She said as he lay dying he asked "Why?"
Oops...again scratch that.......NOW she says he didnt say a word.

Okay if we believe Mary's crap then why in the world would she point an unloaded gun at a man that she said she wanted to intimidate so he would listen to her? If he kept it unloaded then he would immediately know Mary didn't know beans about guns (so says Mary) and he would take that gun away from her and if he was that bad of an abuser he would have beat the stuffings out of her or worse.

If she was being grossly abused would she have the wherewithal and b*lls to enter a room where she NOW (sigh) says he wasn't sleeping but AWAKE and had his back to her? So she enters the room where her husband is awake.......walks past the bed......goes to the closet......takes the gun out of its case......comes back balances on the pillows, puts the gun to her shoulder and magically snaps...just as the shotgun fires and hits him right square in the back and then makes a statement that "it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be." And all this time Matthew Winkler never turned around once? Does that make sense? NO! NO! NO! lol

This case without a doubt is one case where justice was not served and I don't know who I feel the sorriest for.... Matthew who's reputation was shredded to get a killer off, the poor Winkler family or Matthew's precious children. My heart breaks for all the many victims in this case.

Farese won this case on fluff and trash..shock and awe and Mary's little downtrodden mousy look......he knew if he could make the jury hate Matthew and paint him as a bad man that she would get a lessor charge. This was and always will be a first degree murder case imo. It is a mockery and a black mark on our justice system imo.

To know she is Scott free and not one thing she said was proven in court about her husband is beyond sickening. It is unforgivable for it to happen in a court of law in our country imo when everything is supposed to be based on facts in evidence. Not one thing did they find except the thumbnail *advertiser censored* in the deleted file. That's it. The wig and shoe was NOT in the parsonage of Matthew Winkler.......they were only tools that the defense used to inflame the jury.

imoo

Can't the court take her "statements" that she has made since the trial and prosecute her for perjury given the fact that she has contradicted her testimony so much? I would think there would be something to charge her with - obstruction, perjury, even if it is just a misdemeanor, so that it counts against her in a custody hearing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Can't the court take her "statements" that she has made since the trial and prosecute her for perjury given the fact that she has contradicted her testimony so much? I would think there would be something to charge her with - obstruction, perjury, even if it is just a misdemeanor, so that it counts against her in a custody hearing.

They certain could fundiva but they wont. It is extremely rare for a person to even be charged with perjury even if the evidence shows blatant lies told.

I guess it is political to some degree. A DA is always supposed to give the appearance of fairness and if they brought charges he may think the community would think he was adding this charge merely because he is ticked that the verdict was a lessor degree than the State was asking or he was trying to disrupt the custody issue. That is also the reason imo why the check kiting charges weren't filed against her. To go back now would also appear to some that the State was doubling up on MW because of the stupid verdict.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case..... his mom, Ester Felding, not only perjured herself on the stand but destroyed evidence as well. The State never charged her even though they had her dead to right and SD was up to his eyeballs in an internet scam and stealing credit card information but they did not include those charges when they brought the first degree against him.

BUT! I do believe since there will be court transcripts to both the trial and custody hearing this will be brought out front and center in the civil trial. If I were the Winklers lawyer in that case my main questions to Mary would be as I asked her to read the inconsistent statements, "Were you lying in the trial, or the custody hearing or now, Mary?" "How can this jury ever know what the truth is when you have told so many lies?"

The Winkler civil attorney has got to be more hard hitting and forceful than ADA Freeland. He has a mountain of evidence to work with all the inconsistent stories this woman has told starting all the way back on March 23,06 until her mouth stops yapping. lol

imoo

 

[Nore]

They certain could fundiva but they wont. It is extremely rare for a person to even be charged with perjury even if the evidence shows blatant lies told.

I guess it is political to some degree. A DA is always supposed to give the appearance of fairness and if they brought charges he may think the community would think he was adding this charge merely because he is ticked that the verdict was a lessor degree than the State was asking or he was trying to disrupt the custody issue. That is also the reason imo why the check kiting charges weren't filed against her. To go back now would also appear to some that the State was doubling up on MW because of the stupid verdict.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case..... his mom, Ester Felding, not only perjured herself on the stand but destroyed evidence as well. The State never charged her even though they had her dead to right and SD was up to his eyeballs in an internet scam and stealing credit card information but they did not include those charges when they brought the first degree against him.

BUT! I do believe since there will be court transcripts to both the trial and custody hearing this will be brought out front and center in the civil trial. If I were the Winklers lawyer in that case my main questions to Mary would be as I asked her to read the inconsistent statements, "Were you lying in the trial, or the custody hearing or now, Mary?" "How can this jury ever know what the truth is when you have told so many lies?"

The Winkler civil attorney has got to be more hard hitting and forceful than ADA Freeland. He has a mountain of evidence to work with all the inconsistent stories this woman has told starting all the way back on March 23,06 until her mouth stops yapping. lol

imoo

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I certainly hope the civil attorney is keeping track of all Mary says.Mary in my estimation is a lieing loose canon and will harm someone again.I pray to God it is not one of the girls or the elder Winklers.Mary has huge mental problems,why they dont act on that is beyond me....IMO

 

[Nore]

Tonight at 10pm.Snapped is on Oxygen. I watched a few today and they are doozies.I'm anxious to see what they say!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Tonight at 10pm.Snapped is on Oxygen. I watched a few today and they are doozies.I'm anxious to see what they say!

The name of the show is very misleading to me Nore.

First they show only women who have supposedly "snapped" yet on their site they list murders committed by women that have killed because of jealousy, or the spouse had high insurance policies and the women killed for financial gain. The jealousy motive is a typical revenge motive done by both males and females. And women who are master planning the demise of their husbands so they can get his life insurance sure don't "SNAP" and murder their husbands. They premeditate the murder.

So the "snapping" part is very misleading to me. I have always felt that is a convenient excuse said to try and distance themselves from their crime and the responsibility/accountability for it. I dont buy it when a male tries to say it too.

If you watch would you give a recap of the show? TIA House is filled with baseball playoffs tonight. lol

imoo

 

[Nore]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didnt snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.

 

[Squishified]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didnt snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.

They repeat these shows a lot.
Let me see if I can find when it's on again.

 

[Squishified]

It's not on again until Sunday Oct. 14 at 8:00pm Eastern.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didn't snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.

Oh that is okay Nore. Believe me I have fallen asleep many times right in the middle of a movie I wanted to watch. lol

Squishi says it comes on again on the 14th. I don't get the Oxygen channel but no one anywhere is even mentioning watching the show. So I guess most have had a bellyfull of Mary Winkler.

Ocean

 

[Squishified]

Oh that is okay Nore. Believe me I have fallen asleep many times right in the middle of a movie I wanted to watch. lol

Squishi says it comes on again on the 14th. I don't get the Oxygen channel but no one anywhere is even mentioning watching the show. So I guess most have had a bellyfull of Mary Winkler.

Ocean

Hey Ocean,
I didn't watch the show because Mary makes me too mad. Maybe I'll watch the repeat. I might have to have a few drinks first!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hey Ocean,
I didn't watch the show because Mary makes me too mad. Maybe I'll watch the repeat. I might have to have a few drinks first!

LOL I hear ya Squishi. At least on "Snapped" though they do have quite a bit of views from the other side and they really do stress the financial check kiting scheme by Mary (only lol)

DA Dunavant speaks with "Snapped" and his interview was very good. I saw his interview on the bonus extended video page on Oxygen.

imoo

 

[JuJuBee]

I grew up in a very conservative Pentecostal family, and I can see where having a husband want her to wear hooker shoes and a wig during sex might have made Mary very uncomfortable and upset. However, if she's going to claim her religious background as grounds for being upset over kinky sex, she's going to have to explain to me why her religious background did not preclude financial fraud and check-kiting -- never mind cold-blooded murder. Those sins are a whole lot weightier than a little off-beat nookie, IMHO.

I also think she is a disturbed woman and that the police are lucky they found her when they did, because she meant to do no good with that shotgun she took with her on the road. I'd almost bet she planned to take the kids away and kill them and either lost her nerve or hadn't yet planned out her course of action when the cops caught up with her.

Was anyone else completely creeped out by her demeanor? That vacant smirk on her face and her total calm? Not to mention her mustache?

 

[Squishified]

I grew up in a very conservative Pentecostal family, and I can see where having a husband want her to wear hooker shoes and a wig during sex might have made Mary very uncomfortable and upset. However, if she's going to claim her religious background as grounds for being upset over kinky sex, she's going to have to explain to me why her religious background did not preclude financial fraud and check-kiting -- never mind cold-blooded murder. Those sins are a whole lot weightier than a little off-beat nookie, IMHO.

I also think she is a disturbed woman and that the police are lucky they found her when they did, because she meant to do no good with that shotgun she took with her on the road. I'd almost bet she planned to take the kids away and kill them and either lost her nerve or hadn't yet planned out her course of action when the cops caught up with her.

Was anyone else completely creeped out by her demeanor? That vacant smirk on her face and her total calm? Not to mention her mustache?[/quote]

I know it's not nice but that cracked me up!
Welcome to WS, JuJuBe (love the name). Good post. I believe what Mary did was comparable to what Mark Hacking did. They each killed their spouse out of fear of being "found out". Too bad Mary got off so easy.