Found Deceased TN - Riley Strain, 22, missing after leaving bar, Nashville, 8 March 2024 #3

[Cassady]

Dry drowning happens in a percentage of cases. The throat locks down to prevent water entering the lungs, and the victim suffocates.

Deceased persons are often found unclothed in moving bodies of water, due to actions such as currents and tides. And if this was an accident that happened while looking for somewhere to urinate... his trousers may have been undone, which would make it more likely for his trousers to come off. And if his wallet was in his trouser pocket, and his shoes weren't tightly laced, it's all going to be more likely to be lost. He was in the river a long time, and travelled eight miles downstream. That's a lot of agitated water.

I understand why the family finds both suspicious, but as someone who reads about forensics, I can understand why the medical examiner and LE don't. Both are commonly found in drowning cases.

MOO

Dry drowning or secondary drowning is not a medically accepted term...IMO.

For many years it was believed the 10-15% of drowning victims did not have water in their lungs, as is normally associated with drowning. This has been referred to as "dry drowning" too, but more recently this is referred to as drowning without aspiration. Studies in the past 30 years have called the 10-15% number into question, finding much lower percentages, and suggesting the examination of natural or other causes of death when drowning victim's lungs do not have water in them:

‘Dry drowning’ and other myths

Drowning is a common and often preventable cause of death, especially in children. The mass media often propagate misinformation about “dry” and “secondary” drowning, diverting attention from appropriate efforts to prevent drowning and rescue and treat those who do drown.

www.ccjm.org

“In the absence of the common finding of significant pulmonary edema in the victim’s respiratory system, to conclude his or her death was caused by ‘drowning without aspiration’ is unwise."

Drowning without aspiration: is this an appropriate diagnosis? - PubMed

It has been reported that 10-15% of drowning victims do not aspirate water. We have revisited the original studies quoted to reach this conclusion and find it is without foundation. Sudden cardiac standstill is known to occur on land and, therefore, may also occur when the victim is in water. In...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is a full article that details drowning:

The experience of drowning

Internationally, drowning is a leading cause of accidental death that features in many legal cases. In these cases, possible mitigations and the ‘pain and suffering’ in terms of the duration and subjective experience of drowning are often ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Megnut]

Dry drowning or secondary drowning is not a medically accepted term...IMO.

For many years it was believed the 10-15% of drowning victims did not have water in their lungs, as is normally associated with drowning. This has been referred to as "dry drowning" too, but more recently this is referred to as drowning without aspiration. Studies in the past 30 years have called the 10-15% number into question, finding much lower percentages, and suggesting the examination of natural or other causes of death when drowning victim's lungs do not have water in them:

‘Dry drowning’ and other myths

Drowning is a common and often preventable cause of death, especially in children. The mass media often propagate misinformation about “dry” and “secondary” drowning, diverting attention from appropriate efforts to prevent drowning and rescue and treat those who do drown.

www.ccjm.org

“In the absence of the common finding of significant pulmonary edema in the victim’s respiratory system, to conclude his or her death was caused by ‘drowning without aspiration’ is unwise."

Drowning without aspiration: is this an appropriate diagnosis? - PubMed

It has been reported that 10-15% of drowning victims do not aspirate water. We have revisited the original studies quoted to reach this conclusion and find it is without foundation. Sudden cardiac standstill is known to occur on land and, therefore, may also occur when the victim is in water. In...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here is a full article that details drowning:

The experience of drowning

Internationally, drowning is a leading cause of accidental death that features in many legal cases. In these cases, possible mitigations and the ‘pain and suffering’ in terms of the duration and subjective experience of drowning are often ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Staggering. All within/under 2 minutes.

 

[Sunny Day]

Riley Strain body found with no pants, wallet, boots | Vargas Reports

New details reveal University of Missouri student Riley Strain was found without his pants, wallet or the cowboy boots he wore the night he vanished. Strain family friend Chris Dingman tells NewsNation's "Elizabeth Vargas Reports" that authorities have ordered a second autopsy.

www.newsnationnow.com

I wonder if maybe he was still conscious after he went into the water and pulled off his pants and boots if they were pulling him underwater. Wallet may have been in the pants. All of that could have washed away. Just a thought and my own opinion.

 

[Tutter]

Kicking off your shoes is the first thing you're taught in Swim and Survive out here. It may have been instinct if he'd had similar training.

If he struggled in the water, wouldn’t that make it more likely for water to be in the lungs? I have to say, it would be hard for me to accept a loved one who died in an unknown way, with drowning suspected but with no water in the lungs. Add in no boots or pants….very suspicious IMO.

I really didn’t expect something like this. And if I am allowed to speculate, maybe some people really want this to be just an unfortunate accident so the city will be seen as a safe and happy place. My opinion only of course. I hope his family gets the truth.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Of course this will open the floodgates to speculation about his being already dead when thrown into the water, and of being accosted.
(I must admit, that as a lay person, I don’t understand drowning without water in the lungs, or how jeans can slide off a body. But I trust those who have expertise).

I am glad they decided to investigate this further, especially now that we are hearing about Riley missing his pants and boots. As thin as Riley was, if he really did fall into the Cumberland “unassisted,” I could see him loosing his pants and then his wallet, except for those Western boots. As someone who wears Western boots, I can tell you they are difficult to take off. I can’t imagine even a strong current releasing his boots. Therefore his jeans would remain as it’s doubtful they could slide over his boots. Denim also tightens up when it’s wet (think how your jeans feel right after you wash them). OMO.

When I read his obit, posted above, I had another concern — I was struck by all his outdoor experience and work in conservation. This made me wonder about his reaction if he was falling down that river’s edge. If Riley spent a lot of time in the woods, hiking in natural habitats, and around lakes, he had no doubt dealt with uneven terrain before and even taken some tumbles, giving him knowledge of how to react to stop his fall. Even intoxicated, I feel like adrenaline would pump as he realized he was falling. I picture him grabbing for a shrub branch or digging his hands into the dirt trying to stop the descent. Did LE check out where he supposedly went over the rail to see if the ground and plants showed any signs of disturbance? The only way I can imagine him not able to get hold of a branch or clump of vegetation is if he was impaired by more than alcohol or if his potential concussion was a factor. But if he did enter the Cumberland without “assistance,” how did he loose his boots and jeans? OMHO.

I think the answer to his found bank debit card is not complicated. My guess is he kept his wallet safely in his front jeans pocket (as family spokesman CD has described seeing in a photo)

and may have placed his bank card in that black shirt pocket, which appeared large enough to also hold his phone. This afforded him easy access to pay his tabs. But any time he leaned over to vomit, he was at risk for that card slipping out and landing on the ground. OMO.

Just some thoughts I’ve had over the last few days. As some have mentioned both in postings and podcasts, this case follows a very similar pattern to certain urb@n g@ng murders. Not sure if I can n@me it here, but they are “h@ppy people.” OMO. I just can’t dismiss that thought. It’s hard to imagine a college senior with high career aspirations still wanting to get this drunk.

I wish I could accept the simple scenario that has been given so far by LE. No matter what, my heart is so heavy over this very sad story. RIP, dear Riley.

ADDING: I’ve also heard that the Cumberland is shallow along the shore out about 10 feet. If one were athletic, alert, and could tolerate the current it might be possible to wade back to shore. After the 10 feet there is a significant drop in depth and a person could not stand. Don’t know if this is something to consider.

 

[SMK777]

It’s hard to imagine a college senior with high career aspirations still wanting to get this drunk.

That thought has occurred to me many times. Didn’t fit his known character or where he currently was in terms of getting ready to graduate and begin an internship. He’d been on a prior Nashville trip without incident. More like a freshman thing. MOO

 

[SMK777]

I really didn’t expect something like this.

I was kind of surprised by it as well.

 

[stemkb]

Was there really no water in his lungs or was his body too badly decomposed to make an assessment? Same thing happened with Kiely Rodni — it wasn't possible for the forensic pathologist to make a determination so people mistook the lack of finding for a proactive statement of its opposite: "If water had entered her lungs, the report would explicitly have said so!" That said, water in the lungs does not imply accidental drowning any more than no water no water implies foul play. Too many unknowns during his final moments.

 

[ErinC]

Kicking off your shoes is the first thing you're taught in Swim and Survive out here. It may have been instinct if he'd had similar training.

It certainly isn't impossible, but I'd say he likely didn't. MANY Americans never learn to swim- unless you live on the coasts, it can be really hard to get access. While this is changing, a lot of schools don't have pools- mine didn't and neither does the one here where we live, so of course we don't have a chance to learn in school. A lot of rivers and creeks aren't safe to play in for one reason and another. Of course, we do have community swimming pools, but without a country club membership or means of paying community pool fees, that leaves a good chunk of us, particularly in middle America, with no way to learn. While if his family could afford fraternity dues they weren't on the brink of starvation by any means, it's not a guarantee that he'd received any swimming lessons at all, and almost certainly not things like Swim and Survive, sadly.

 

[branmuffin]

Oh no. This popped up in my YouTube feed. Interview with Brian Entin and the family spokesperson Chris. No water was found in his lungs, and Riley’s boots, pants and wallet were not on his body when located.

That's not unusual. Many drowning victims have no water in their lungs. It's called dry drowning. About 20% of drowning victims end up with no water in their lungs. Here's a link:

Drowning (Dry, Wet, Near) Signs and First Aid Treatment

Learn how to prevent the third most common cause of accidental death, drowning. Discover the symptoms of both wet drowning and dry drowning, and learn how to protect young children from drowning in pools, as well as lakes, rivers, and oceans.

www.medicinenet.com

As for the missing clothing and boots. I presume the wallet was in his pants. Depending on the fit of his clothing I suppose it's possible the current or foreign articles snagged them. I've seen images of drowning victims where decomp has bloated the body and all items seem accounted for, including footware. It's difficult to assess the reasons why the items are missing.

Are people suggesting that Riley was accosted and relieved of his pants and boots?

 

[LadyL]

I thought they'd found his phone ?
Maybe someone will locate it and turn it in ?

I don't know where it is. There hasn't been any mention of it that I've seen.

 

[branmuffin]

I’m not leaning one way or another, but I do recall he wore size 15 shoes, and we heard his footsteps “clomping” down the street as he approached the police officer at the first bridge. Those would be large boots to slip off a foot, I’d think. Square toed Justin cowboy boots seem to go up the leg toward the calf. Easier for me to envision a sneaker slipping off. But as always I’m open to opinions.

I think it would be more difficult for sneakers to come off a body. On the west coast of Canada numerous feet encased in sneakers have washed ashore initially causing LE to believe a serial killer was at work. Investigations by forensic experts said when a foot is encased in a laced up shoe like a sneaker during decomp the foot disarticulates from the leg. Over time some of the feet were matched to drowning victims, suicides, etc. Unusual but not suspicious.

 

[CuriousCricket]

A different opinion....If he went into that cold, fast running water and was attempting to swim he may very well have kicked his boots off. Very hard to swim with cowboy boots on....though I've never tried, and don't really want to.
This all tracks back to the circumstances under which he ended up in the water. Autopsy indications are that he was only minorly bruised: if he fell in without hitting trees or masonry, there is a reasonable chance he was conscious and trying to swim before the cold got to him. I would anticipate the first thing you would want to do is get your face above water, and the second would be ditch the boots.
JMO

And if trying to swim, he'd want rid of jeans. Wet denim is really heavy.

 

[Ressler]

Forgive me if I missed some things. I have been following this case very closely while watching lives during the search for Riley. Initally thought he went to urinate off the side and dropped his phone while using the light to find his way through the brush near the bridge. Tragic accident maybe but as I continued to watch more lives of the search, I began to see the dangers of the area he was last seen. There were multiple bodies recovered during those weeks. <modsnip>

 

[Ann-Tx]

This probably was posted here when published. Since there is currently conversations/discussion about the Cumberland River here, some might find this article informative regarding the river.

Source: The Tennessean - Nashville, TN
March 14, 2024

Dangers of the Cumberland River: How water depth, current and temperature impact people​

Dangers of the Cumberland River: How water depth, current and temperature impact people

Officials have been searching the Cumberland River in Nashville for a missing Missouri college student. How safe is the river?

www.tennessean.com

 

[Ann-Tx]

Source: The Tennessean - Nashville, TN
March 22, 2024

Where Riley Strain was found in Nashville: What to know about The Nations and Cumberland River​

Where Riley Strain was found in Nashville: What to know about The Nations and Cumberland River

Riley Strain's body was found about 8 miles down the Cumberland River in the West Nashville neighborhood the Nations.

www.tennessean.com

 

[CamilleBSP]

I wish I could try to explain how his pants and boots could’ve slid off his body without being somewhat disrespectful.

But trust me, it’s completely plausible.

 

[Ressler]

An important question that I think needs to be answered is, “what percentage of the accidental drownings are dry drownings?”

 

[Sjöberg]

No water in his lungs is definitely interesting. But not conclusive in any way. As far as the c.o.d. and other autopsy stuff goes, I'll trust the professionals for now - unless there emerges a reason to think otherwise.

And if I am allowed to speculate, maybe some people really want this to be just an unfortunate accident so the city will be seen as a safe and happy place.

It’s hard to imagine a college senior with high career aspirations still wanting to get this drunk.

I think one problem with this case is the known bias that if we have dramatic results (kid died) it is very human to assume that we also need dramatic reasons (serial killer, drink drugged, attacked for money).

Moreover, its is complicated that if the main reason a kid dies is because he was drunk as a skunk, then it makes us uncomfortable, because not only does it sound like victim blaming, it also makes us feel like hypocrites.
Most people have been drunk as a skunk (and not died) and now it makes us 1) feel bad for saying that's the reason and that this behaviour is stupid and dangerous, because then we have to accept that we ourselves have done stupid and dangerous things that could have ended us up dead were we less lucky (with choice-supportive bias, the ostrich effect, etc), and 2) question if just "being drunk" is reason enough, as many people have been drunk and not died (availability heuristic and zero-risk bias at play).

Unfortunately, being drunk can go very wrong very easily and if alcohol were invented in the 21st century and not a cultural norm, I'm not sure it would be made legal with all the health damage and societal damage it causes. Said by me, who had both a glass of red wine and a tequila sunrise last night.

To illustrate, that alcohol is enough, I'll briefly point out a local case to me: a kid drowned in a small puddle on the street. He was drunk as a skunk, could not get into his home, wandered off to an idiotic direction, ended up probably tripping on some tree roots and either decided to fall asleep or had trouble getting up, but eventually the kid drowned in a small puddle on the street. He had been of legal drinking age for ~3 years already, and he was a medical student of all things. No foul play, not a kid from a bad background, not often a heavy drinker, no drugs involved. Just got too drunk one night.

 

[Really?]

How are bars not responsible …..they throw out an overly intoxicated person….to fend for themselves?????


This happens way too much here and the UK as well as other places.