Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes Are Divorcing

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This is what happened to David Miscavige's niece.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sCrutrSZtI&feature=related"]Scientology - Jenna Miscavige and the Cult 1/2 - Nightline - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1vRh-Csiw0&feature=relmfu"]Scientology - Jenna Miscavige and the Cult 2/2 - Nightline - YouTube[/ame]
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAn_qA2E7rs&feature=related"]SCIENTOLOGY AND ME (FULL DOCUMENTARY) - YouTube[/ame]
 
Woah!! I didn't know that! Has there ever been a police inquiry? I have no problem believing that he could get away with murder in the halls of Scientology. Scientologists seem to be very susceptible to manipulation by the church. JMO



BBM

You should watch some of the videos I posted. Scientology harms children greatly. It harms entire families. In fact, in Scientology if you defect then any family members still in the church cannot have anything to do with you. The Scientologists claim that the separation is done by their own choice, but a lot of evidence proves otherwise. I can very easily see TC manipulating Suri into saying she doesn't want to be with her mom anymore. JMO

I don't doubt he probably will try to alientate Suri from KH. It appears that he might have done that with his older children and their mother.


I should have said that IMHO joint custody won't be denied because of religion if it hasn't been shown to directly harm Suri. It's kind of like we can't lock someone up because they might kill someone----eventually---one day---maybe. KWIM?

I know Scientology is a cult, I'm not arguing that. I just saying that Katie will have to prove that Tom harmed Suri through Scientology in order to get a court order to deny him joint custody.

As I said before I'm not rooting for either parent because I can't judge what kind of Mom Katie is by looking at Tom. I have no idea what she is like with her child and pictures can only tell us so much.

Way off topic~~~ please ignore if not interested and after posting this I won't discuss it at all because it is so off topic.

I wish we still had the forensic astrology forum because there is some *interesting* aspects of Suri's natal chart that can't be discussed here that could be viewed in relation to her Mom and that is what gives me pause.
 
Why is this group still unchallenged by any authority? I can only hope NY is more farsighted than CA when it comes to this carp. The more I learn, the scarier it gets.

If TC pushes this I hope she calls all of the former Seaorg members she can subpoena to testify about Scientology's treatment of children and families. If David Miscavige's niece went through what she did I could see TC thinking Suri being abused was for her own good. JMO
 
I don't doubt he probably will try to alientate Suri from KH. It appears that he might have done that with his older children and their mother.


I should have said that IMHO joint custody won't be denied because of religion if it hasn't been shown to directly harm Suri. It's kind of like we can't lock someone up because they might kill someone----eventually---one day---maybe. KWIM?

I know Scientology is a cult, I'm not arguing that. I just saying that Katie will have to prove that Tom harmed Suri through Scientology in order to get a court order to deny him joint custody.

As I said before I'm not rooting for either parent because I can't judge what kind of Mom Katie is by looking at Tom. I have no idea what she is like with her child and pictures can only tell us so much.

Way off topic~~~ please ignore if not interested and after posting this I won't discuss it at all because it is so off topic.

I wish we still had the forensic astrology forum because there is some *interesting* aspects of Suri's natal chart that can't be discussed here that could be viewed in relation to her Mom and that is what gives me pause.

If you were a parent would you do everything you could to keep your kid out of a work prison if you thought your husband would put them in one? That's essentially what Katie is fighting here. Seaorg is a work prison for Scientology. The stories related by families who've gotten out are horrifying. There is a very good chance that TC could put her on a Seaorg ship and Katie wouldn't see her for years. JMO
 
I don't doubt he probably will try to alientate Suri from KH. It appears that he might have done that with his older children and their mother.


I should have said that IMHO joint custody won't be denied because of religion if it hasn't been shown to directly harm Suri. It's kind of like we can't lock someone up because they might kill someone----eventually---one day---maybe. KWIM?

I know Scientology is a cult, I'm not arguing that. I just saying that Katie will have to prove that Tom harmed Suri through Scientology in order to get a court order to deny him joint custody.

As I said before I'm not rooting for either parent because I can't judge what kind of Mom Katie is by looking at Tom. I have no idea what she is like with her child and pictures can only tell us so much.

Way off topic~~~ please ignore if not interested and after posting this I won't discuss it at all because it is so off topic.

I wish we still had the forensic astrology forum because there is some *interesting* aspects of Suri's natal chart that can't be discussed here that could be viewed in relation to her Mom and that is what gives me pause.

I agree with you. Sorry. I called you Tori in an earlier post.
 
If you were a parent would you do everything you could to keep your kid out of a work prison if you thought your husband would put them in one? That's essentially what Katie is fighting here. Seaorg is a work prison for Scientology. The stories related by families who've gotten out are horrifying. There is a very good chance that TC could put her on a Seaorg ship and Katie wouldn't see her for years. JMO

I gotta disagree with that. Celebrities are treated differently, as are their kids. Isabella and Connor were not subjected to this and neither would Suri be. Celebs wouldn't put up with such treatment. Their kids aren't going to perform slave labor. They are the golden calves of the group.

Also, no way could TC just take Suri and hide her on a ship from her mom. He would be charged with kidnapping and go straight to jail.
 
I gotta disagree with that. Celebrities are treated differently, as are their kids. Isabella and Connor were not subjected to this and neither would Suri be. Celebs wouldn't put up with such treatment. Their kids aren't going to perform slave labor. They are the golden calves of the group.

Also, no way could TC just take Suri and hide her on a ship from her mom. He would be charged with kidnapping and go straight to jail.

We'll have to agree to disagree. If David Miscavige would allow his niece to endure the things she did, then I have no problem believing TC would do the same and think it was for Suri's own good. JMO
 
We'll have to agree to disagree. If David Miscavige would allow his niece to endure the things she did, then I have no problem believing TC would do the same and think it was for Suri's own good. JMO

He could try and then he'd go to jail. But I don't think there's any way the org would allow him to do such a thing even if the law wouldnt intervene because celebs are the recruiters, the special ones. Why would Suri be subjected to something no other celeb scientologist kid, including TC's older kids, has been subjected to?

In any event, why do you think the law would allow TC to take Suri from her mom and put her on a slave ship? Suri Cruise ain't no Jenna Muscovige. Suri has her über famous mother, the public and the law on her side.
 
He could try and then he'd go to jail. But I don't think there's any way the org would allow him to do such a thing even if the law wouldnt intervene because celebs are the recruiters, the special ones. Why would Suri be subjected to something no other celeb scientologist kid, including TC's older kids, has been subjected to?

In any event, why do you think the law would allow TC to take Suri from her mom and put her on a slave ship? Suri Cruise ain't no Jenna Muscovige. Suri has her über famous mother, the public and the law on her side.

I don't think anything is beyond Scientologists. You're most likely right, but if I was Katie it would be a very real concern of mine. JMO
 
Yowza! I just finished watching the hour long documentary that Steely posted earlier in the thread, well, this one:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwPMHM3qC9w&feature=related"]THE SECRETS OF SCIENTOLOGY (FULL DOCUMENTARY) - YouTube[/ame]

and I read some of the ex-scientology young people's accounts.

So much to be said here. I do hope Dateline or some show will do something, strike while the iron is hot so to say.

This group claims to be opposed to psychiatry/psychology. That is because this is their main tool, only in it's most negative aspects. This is nothing than control tactics similar to the abusive spouse, parent, military leader, other cult leaders.

This group also incorporates little bits of many other religions, to even include a caste system. (Much more to be said.)

Any group that films you openly, or secretly with the tiny spy cams that again are used by abusers, stalks and abuses you, applies lie detectors (WTH?), is not one that could be deemed religious, imo. Any group that keeps families separate is not one to be deemed religious. None of this stuff has the best interests of the individual at heart. Only the best interests of the money making machine it is. Low cost to operate with high dividends from the followers either in money or labor. (Much more to be said.)

I did start chuckling at that level III space alien god dude thing. Oh my. But what else would you expect from a religion started by a sci-fi writer??! Wonder what you are told at the higher levels?

I can see why some young people would get involved. The nice, but no one on them, demo of pools, tennis grounds, etc... The help with raising a family (always have a guaranteed job of some sort), the help with not doing drugs or alcohol if one feels weak toward that. The community presentation (false as it may be.)

I just wish there were more exposure to cults nowadays. Also wish critical thinking was taught in schools and on television. Perhaps even world religion, philosophy, psychology, and footage of some of the most heinous leaders of all time in action to show how nicely it begins and how rapidly it ramps up into full on control through threats, intimidation, and sometimes death.

Interesting that the one actor had 3 very large German Shepards as his front line of loving furries.

I'll try to get to more of this bizarre stuff later. Most fascinated now.

ETA: I figured out why I never liked TC's acting, I always felt it is poor acting, but just not my preferred style. Then I saw the other actors/actresses involved and feel the same about them. It is fake. They are doing just as they have been trained! I do believe it is termed "method acting" but those people in this documentary were doing just this same in their display of tactics.
 
I am also wondering how the Government could step in, but I see no way. This is a fully covered scam for sure. Government can't bust it up or tax evasion as they are tax exempt. Can't do anything about the abuse unless enough can come forward and have proof of some kind of abuse. I don't know if psychological abuse is enough, the few stories on the ex site did not seem to be enough for the Government to step in. I really don't know though. It would take specialists in this area of law to handle, and enough evidence of strong enough wrong doing. Seems if you can blanket yourself as religion, then if people choose to participate, you are covered.
 
Yowza! I just finished watching the hour long documentary that Steely posted earlier in the thread, well, this one:

THE SECRETS OF SCIENTOLOGY (FULL DOCUMENTARY) - YouTube

and I read some of the ex-scientology young people's accounts.

So much to be said here. I do hope Dateline or some show will do something, strike while the iron is hot so to say.

This group claims to be opposed to psychiatry/psychology. That is because this is their main tool, only in it's most negative aspects. This is nothing than control tactics similar to the abusive spouse, parent, military leader, other cult leaders.

This group also incorporates little bits of many other religions, to even include a caste system. (Much more to be said.)

Any group that films you openly, or secretly with the tiny spy cams that again are used by abusers, stalks and abuses you, applies lie detectors (WTH?), is not one that could be deemed religious, imo. Any group that keeps families separate is not one to be deemed religious. None of this stuff has the best interests of the individual at heart. Only the best interests of the money making machine it is. Low cost to operate with high dividends from the followers either in money or labor. (Much more to be said.)

I did start chuckling at that level III space alien god dude thing. Oh my. But what else would you expect from a religion started by a sci-fi writer??! Wonder what you are told at the higher levels?

I can see why some young people would get involved. The nice, but no one on them, demo of pools, tennis grounds, etc... The help with raising a family (always have a guaranteed job of some sort), the help with not doing drugs or alcohol if one feels weak toward that. The community presentation (false as it may be.)

I just wish there were more exposure to cults nowadays. Also wish critical thinking was taught in schools and on television. Perhaps even world religion, philosophy, psychology, and footage of some of the most heinous leaders of all time in action to show how nicely it begins and how rapidly it ramps up into full on control through threats, intimidation, and sometimes death.

Interesting that the one actor had 3 very large German Shepards as his front line of loving furries.

I'll try to get to more of this bizarre stuff later. Most fascinated now.

ETA: I figured out why I never liked TC's acting, I always felt it is poor acting, but just not my preferred style. Then I saw the other actors/actresses involved and feel the same about them. It is fake. They are doing just as they have been trained! I do believe it is termed "method acting" but those people in this documentary were doing just this same in their display of tactics.

:goodpost:

And not just because she agrees with me.
biggrin.gif
 
Why is this group still unchallenged by any authority? I can only hope NY is more farsighted than CA when it comes to this carp. The more I learn, the scarier it gets.

I worry for Katie and Suri's safety.
 
SeaOrg is a very, very dangerous subgroup of the Scientology cult. It was established to protect LR Hubbard against lawsuits, both civil and criminal. It is the ultimate "off shore" organization, and tends to be away from shore for long, long periods of time. His paranoia, in the last decades of his life, was huge (and perhaps rightly so), and he developed the SeaOrg as a way to protect himself against his detractors.

It is a vile, evil part of the conglomerate that is Scientology. There are things which happen on the boats which is totally unconscionable, like enforced abortions, no education, and long days of hard work with little rest.

To hear that Suri may be "accepted" into the SeaOrg is a big, big issue. It goes far deeper than just who can say what to Suri, or how she practices a religion (or pseudo religion), and everything to do with not being able to parent her (either one). Basically, once in SeaOrg, she will not be seen for many years.

I speak from a different place than some of you. I worked for a Scientology couple as care taker for their three little girls. They always treated me with respect, and, once we went our seperate ways, they were always kind and helpful to me. We lost touch over the years, as these things go.

However, since one of the parents ended up being pretty famous and a mover and shaker in the Hollywood scene, I was able to sometimes see how this family, who I loved deeply, ended up.

Not a pretty sight. Lots of alienation of parents and children; lots of pressure to avoid SPs. Lots of not cool things.

I ran into the father at a Hollywood party while with my father about 8 years ago. I got some good time with him, and asked how the children were. He told me fine, and so on...and I was content with that. At one point, all the children were sent to a Scientology boarding school, and they had a hard time, but were apparently doing well now.

Recently, he left Scientology. It was a fairly public leaving, and he has been followed, ostracized, and battered a bit. But he did it for a huge reason, and that was the kids' alienation. I read a very long article about him, and found out that these precious children had been through what I'd call hell. And it took decades for him to understand, and, once understand, take action, and leave the "church".

I remember, being young and not longsighted, those days when the parents were politically active with the church; early mornings, late nights...protesting, activism, and strange practices (e.g. Cal-Mag cleansing, long exercise sessions, and other bizarre 'technology'). I had been raised (and still believe) that people have their own way of worship, and as long as it's not hurting anyone, then I was to respect it, and leave it be.

Problem is, Scientology hurts people; splits families against the family's will (read up on Suppressive persons, and PTS - potential trouble sources). Not only is there a huge financial issue, there is a wholehearted effort to seperate, and then "brainwash", the members.

This is a dangerous organization, but because they somehow got considered a religion, nothing really can be done.

LRH was a very disturbed individual, as is Miscavige. The organization has been very harmful to many people. And no, celebs kids don't always get treated as golden calves, especially when put on a boat off the coast of some other country, where no one can get to them and make sure they're all right.

Just my thoughts...

Best-
Herding Cats
 
If you were a parent would you do everything you could to keep your kid out of a work prison if you thought your husband would put them in one? That's essentially what Katie is fighting here. Seaorg is a work prison for Scientology. The stories related by families who've gotten out are horrifying. There is a very good chance that TC could put her on a Seaorg ship and Katie wouldn't see her for years. JMO

I'm not sure I am convinced that the article about seaorg in the daily mail is accurate reporting. (ETA: report about Suri and seaorg is what I mean)

To be honest what I'm seeing is a lot of speculation about what may have brought about the divorce filing and this is one of the speculations.

I haven't seen KH say it was and I haven't seen TC make a comment at all.

So I can't say one way or another if Katie is fighting seaorg or not to be honest.

If she is then yes I do understand that she would make this move. But there could very well be other reasons for her filing a divorce.

Divorce is usually ugly. Even when it's not it can sometimes have a negative impact on a child on the long run even both parents take as much caution as they can to prevent it from happening.

I get that scientology is a cult. I'm just not sure that this is factual about Suri and not just broad speculation by the media. Stirring the pot so to speak because it makes great news. KWIM?
 
Back in the early 80's I read LRH's Dianetics (just out of the blue for some reason, I had no clue about Scientology though IIRC I had read about it and wanted to see what this was all about for some reason).

I remember that I didn't get very far into the book. lol

I remember chucking it but I do remember that I laughed out loud at how asinine his theories were and I was only in my early 20's. If you get a chance you should have a look at it~ it will be painful for sure but it's a good read for a laugh.

(ETA: there is some theory about prenatal experiences I remember that really was bizarre!)
 
I think media is going crazy with speculation and I don't buy for a second he was going to send Suri to Sea org.
I also have not seen anything to indicate he was not a good father, regardless of what kind of husband he might be.
 
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