Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[TorisMom003]

OP's defense is what it always is........It is not my fault.

When something has worked for numerous years, why change it? OP has gotten away with a lot of things in his life, especially the past few years, so why would he expect to get punished for killing Reeva?

After all, if only "Reeva had spoken to me or come out......" he wouldn't have shot and killed her.

MOO

 

[Magdalyn]

Several witnesses testified to hearing different things. How do you decide which witness' testimony is given the most credence? Certainly not by choosing the one's testimony that best fits your conclusion. That is simply confirmation bias, not sorting objectively through the evidence.

IMO the witnesses that heard different things basically nullify each other.

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that OP's testifying to multiple versions of events within the same trial, and contradicting himself on even the most seemingly benign facts, pretty much nullifies his entire testimony.

 

[Plumeria5]

Could someone recap the jeans inside out for me? Where were they found? And do we know if they were Reeva's? TYIA

 

[clearskies1]

I'm thinking OP's statement that he did not consciously shoot is an attempt to argue 1) the shooting was not murder (no intent to shoot); and 2) the shooting was also not culpable homicide (negligent/reckless) because anyone as scared as he was (allegedly) could shoot out of fear/instinct.

JMO

 

[BabaJ]

He had OP read a card from Reeva that said:

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
Today might be a good day,
to Say I love you

Awesome, huh? Totally makes up for the dozens of lies and contradictions over the last few days.

I am sorry I have not had time to listen today, is everybody talking about the Valentine card going with the Valentine present from Reeva, which was opened by OP on her "birthday" on August 8?

 

[Madeleine74]

I don't think Milady is going to buy what OP's selling.

I really don't.

 

[TorisMom003]

I am sorry I have not had time to listen today, is everybody talking about the Valentine card going with the Valentine present from Reeva, which was opened by OP on her "birthday" on August 8?

Yes Baba.

The poem was written in the card.

 

[TorisMom003]

Could someone recap the jeans inside out for me? Where were they found? And do we know if they were Reeva's? TYIA

There is a debate about that between the State and the Defense. They were found on the floor with the top part (waistband) on a flap of the duvet.

The Defense has stated they are Reeva's jeans. The State did not argue that they were not Reeva's jeans.

 

[shane13]

If you did not watch Roux try to help OP recover today, and I would bet many did not, here is what was said:

Roux to OP: When you were standing with your firearm pointed at the door, what emotions did you feel?

OP: I was terrified. I feared for my life. I was scared. I was thinking about what could happen to me and to Reeva. I was just extremely fearful overcome with a sense of vulnerability.

Roux to OP: When you heard the Noise that you interpreted to be the door opening. What was the feeling or the emotion that you experienced?

OP answers: It was complete terror and helplessness.

Roux asks him to repeat his answer because Roux couldn't hear (lie). OP just did not repeat the script properly.

OP then says: Not having anything to be able to do my lady, not being able to defend myself.

Pistorius did not sound convincing about his fear and need to defend himself. He didnt even cry when he described his feelings and emotions. This is a farce. Game over. Sorry.

Thanks--dozed off.
Was that it?
Or much more?

 

[Carmelita]

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that OP's testifying to multiple versions of events within the same trial, and contradicting himself on even the most seemingly benign facts, pretty much nullifies his entire testimony.

I respect your opinion. You are in the majority.

I do think Oscar will make up outlandish excuses to try and lessen his culpability when he behaves badly. I just personally am not convinced that this wasn't a horrendous accident caused by his hotheadedness and his paranoia, made into something that it is not by his excuse making and inability to accept any imperfections in himself, or take personal responsibility for his actions.

 

[DebinGA]

Nel: “Why did you have black talon ammunition?”

Pistorius: “It is the type of ammunition used for my firearm.”

Reposting this as it's a quote from today that's a prime example of Oscar-Speak. Translation?

 

[TorisMom003]

If you did not watch Roux try to help OP recover today, and I would bet many did not, here is what was said:

Roux to OP: When you were standing with your firearm pointed at the door, what emotions did you feel?

OP: I was terrified. I feared for my life. I was scared. I was thinking about what could happen to me and to Reeva. I was just extremely fearful overcome with a sense of vulnerability.

Roux to OP: When you heard the Noise that you interpreted to be the door opening. What was the feeling or the emotion that you experienced?

OP answers: It was complete terror and helplessness.

Roux asks him to repeat his answer because Roux couldn't hear (lie). OP just did not repeat the script properly.

OP then says: Not having anything to be able to do my lady, not being able to defend myself.

Pistorius did not sound convincing about his fear and need to defend himself. He didnt even cry when he described his feelings and emotions. This is a farce. Game over. Sorry.

Heck he couldn't even work up some tears when he was reading the last words that Reeva will ever write to him to the court. And she was his "beloved". The one that caused him to cry uncontrollably and have need of the green bucket when forced to listen to her injuries that he caused. The one that he has to plug his ears with his fingers when he hears talk of how he bashed in the toilet room door (anyone notice he did this again today when Dixon was on the stand?) and shot through said door hitting Reeva with those bullets.

But reading a card that she gave him, in which she tells him she loves him, he shows nothing. He does nothing other than read it aloud as if it were from a stranger. No tears, no sniffling, no uncontrollable crying and no need for that green bucket.

But of course he's being honest and truthful about what happened that night/early morning.

MOO

 

[Greater Than]

Fair enough. I'm of the opinion that OP's testifying to multiple versions of events within the same trial, and contradicting himself on even the most seemingly benign facts, pretty much nullifies his entire testimony.

Bingo!

And let's not forget that he had the right to remain silent. He chose (or realized he NEEDED) to testify in his own defense after the prosecution rested. He did himself no favors by doing so.

 

[shane13]

Yes Baba.

The poem was written in the card.

I think again he was not pressed that that was not her birthday.

 

[TorisMom003]

Bingo!

And let's not forget that he had the right to remain silent. He chose (or realized he NEEDED) to testify in his own defense after the prosecution rested. He did himself no favors by doing so.

BBM

The guilty ones never do. They think they can take the stand and talk their way out of their rightful guilty verdict, but alas, the truth always finds a way to come through.

MOO

ETA: :welcome:

 

[ShadyLady]

I just finished testimony....and have not read all comments....was toilette tested for urine? Obviously there was no toilette flush...

I hope alot more comes out.

 

[Rumpole]

Anyone remember what day Mrs Stipp testified?

Witness 19: Annette Stipp

There were only 21 + a re-work of Johannes Vermeulen

So towards the end of State Case...... whenever that was

 

[Fuskier]

I think if we made a timeline starting with early September 2012 when OP lost that important race to the Brazilian, and immediately announced the guy had cheated, we'd find a downward spiral of reported bad acts leading up to Feb. 13. By that afternoon I think he'd learned from that "advisor" that his livelihood was in serious jeapordy. Reeva filing a police report would have been the last straw for his sponsors and his fictional good-guy image.

Hypothetically: Losing a race he much wanted to win. Then blamed his opponent for cheating! Big, bad feelings? Dark mood? Lingering agitation? Sense of injustice? A series of reported bad acts lead up to Feb 13th? Then to find his livelihood in jeopardy? Well, this is a 'major life stressor' which invokes bad self-feeling & fears for one's future. In contrast, life was going well for Reeva, her contract, and due to start filming two days later. She was light and full of love. Could there have been some 'envy' of Reeva's life situation as opposed to his 'hurdle', maybe a dark, gloomy future pressing down heavily upon him at that moment in time? If something like this was going on, a 'critical moment', then he could have been like a 'bomb' ready to go off IMO.

Vicarious discharge of rage justified by an intruder story? Was this a possibility?

Sure he may regret what he did, but does that excuse what he did?

 

[shane13]

Reposting this as it's a quote from today that's a prime example of Oscar-Speak. Translation?

Well OP's reply is true that it merely fits his gun.

it was up to Nel to go further but he decided not to.
It must have been legal at the time otherwise he'd have another charge.
Nel decided not to grill him on what black talon bullets do--for whatever reason.

 

[Plumeria5]

If you did not watch Roux try to help OP recover today, and I would bet many did not, here is what was said:

Roux to OP: When you were standing with your firearm pointed at the door, what emotions did you feel?

OP: I was terrified. I feared for my life. I was scared. I was thinking about what could happen to me and to Reeva. I was just extremely fearful overcome with a sense of vulnerability.

Roux to OP: When you heard the Noise that you interpreted to be the door opening. What was the feeling or the emotion that you experienced?

OP answers: It was complete terror and helplessness.

Roux asks him to repeat his answer because Roux couldn't hear (lie). OP just did not repeat the script properly.

OP then says: Not having anything to be able to do my lady, not being able to defend myself.

Pistorius did not sound convincing about his fear and need to defend himself. He didnt even cry when he described his feelings and emotions. This is a farce. Game over. Sorry.

BBM I can only imagine that Reeva could have used these same words to describe the terror and helplessness she was experiencing.

There is a debate about that between the State and the Defense. They were found on the floor with the top part (waistband) on a flap of the duvet.

The Defense has stated they are Reeva's jeans. The State did not argue that they were not Reeva's jeans.

Those very close to Reeva, boyfriends and girlfriends and perhaps Mom, would know if turning her jeans inside out was common practice whether taking them off or before washing them.