Trial Discussion Thread #26 - 14.04.15, Day 23

[Mystymiss]

When Nel was pressing OP on the details after the murder... he blubbered something like "I was shouting and yelling. I wanted to ask Reeve why she is phoning the police"... which sounded totally like she was in the process of phoning the police about something he'd just done to her (?) and that's when he went nuts. That sentence is completely out of place in the context of what had just happened. He'd murdered her. Why did he say " I wanted to ask Reeve why she is phoning the police" after he'd murdered her? Because he may well have said those words to her before. It's all guesswork because you can't trust anything he says to be factual.

It appears to me that OP had a slip of his tongue. Sounds like he may have done something to her on the lower level of the home where she may have been trying to call the police. OP went to stop her she ran upstairs locked the bedroom door ran and locked her self in the bathroom to get away from him. He was able to get in the bedroom and started to hitting the toilet door with the cricket bat to threaten RS. Got his gun and killed her so she wouldn't be able to make a complaint to the police about him. JMO!

 

[ShadyLady]

Hypothetically: Losing a race he much wanted to win. Then blamed his opponent for cheating! Big, bad feelings? Dark mood? Lingering agitation? Sense of injustice? A series of reported bad acts lead up to Feb 13th? Then to find his livelihood in jeopardy? Well, this is a 'major life stressor' which invokes bad self-feeling & fears for one's future. In contrast, life was going well for Reeva, her contract, and due to start filming two days later. Could there have been some 'envy' for Reeva's life situation as opposed to his 'hurdle', maybe a dark, gloomy future pressing down heavily upon him at that moment in time?

I also find it telling that supporters of OP came out early and talked crap about Reeva...and how she was only with OP to further "her" career...I think those stories were planted by OP himself.

 

[luvmygarden]

The answer to the question is favorable to Oscar. Reeva knew how to work the alarm system. And, could have used it to call for help for that matter [I haven't seen any evidence that she couldn't].

FA (female assessor): Would you please confirm if the deceased in this matter had access to the alarm remote.

OP: She did my lady.

FA: And could she activate and deactivate the burglar alarm?

OP: I'm not sure if she knew how to but she would have been able to if she had the remote my lady.

FA: One last question. Tell me, I would like to know if the light in the toilet, if it was broken at the time of the incident.

OP: It wasn't working my lady.

This exchange happens beginning at 12:49 in the following video.

Oscar Pistorius Trial: Tuesday 15 April 2014, Session 2 - YouTube

 

[sleuth-d-]

Here's another thing that points to Reeva NOT having her phone with her in the toilet room, the phone was locked. Now if someone fired the first shot at me and it hit my hip and I have my phone with me that phone will be unlocked and 911 would have been dialed.

Remember, there was a pause between the first shot and the final three.

MOO

i believe she had an iphone. passcode lock can be set to various short or long timespans...

 

[Plumeria5]

I also find it telling that supporters of OP came out early and talked crap about Reeva...and how she was only with OP to further "her" career...I think those stories were planted by OP himself.

BBM:yuck: I agree. Reeva was beautiful, successful in her own right and didn't need the likes of OP to further anything in her life.

 

[minor4th]

Heck he couldn't even work up some tears when he was reading the last words that Reeva will ever write to him to the court. And she was his "beloved". The one that caused him to cry uncontrollably and have need of the green bucket when forced to listen to her injuries that he caused. The one that he has to plug his ears with his fingers when he hears talk of how he bashed in the toilet room door (anyone notice he did this again today when Dixon was on the stand?) and shot through said door hitting Reeva with those bullets.

But reading a card that she gave him, in which she tells him she loves him, he shows nothing. He does nothing other than read it aloud as if it were from a stranger. No tears, no sniffling, no uncontrollable crying and no need for that green bucket.

But of course he's being honest and truthful about what happened that night/early morning.

MOO

I think he was crying when he read it

 

[Magdalyn]

RE: Oscar's contradiction/insistence on the placement of the magazine rack.

(Forgive me if this has already been discussed and I missed it)

Does anyone suppose that Oscar's odd insistence that the rack's original position was not the same as it was in the picture(s) because...

Nel had previously suggested that after Oscar's first shot, Reeva fell onto the magazine rack, it made a noise when she landed on it, Oscar changed his aim very deliberately toward the noise and then fired three bullets into the direction of the magazine rack.

Now Oscar thinks...what's the best way to deny that's exactly what I did....

"That's not where the rack was originally M'lady" (in his new version, he couldn't possibly be aiming for the magazine rack because he 'knows' it's over here. (middle of this wall.) Not over there, where the picture shows it. Somebody must have moved it. Tampering! If I had been purposefully and intentionally firing towards where I knew the magazine rack to be, the middle of this wall over here, I'd have aimed....here. But I didn't. I didn't aim at all. Except at the door in general. So there.

 

[Fuskier]

I also find it telling that supporters of OP came out early and talked crap about Reeva...and how she was only with OP to further "her" career...I think those stories were planted by OP himself.

If this was the case, then the same could equally be true for OP: that he was with R to help his 'image' as she was an educated, accomplished, beautiful model.

What threat would it pose to him if she wanted to leave him?

 

[minor4th]

Witness 19: Annette Stipp

There were only 21 + a re-work of Johannes Vermeulen

So towards the end of State Case...... whenever that was

I listened to it and I didn't hear her say the toilet light was on. I'm now listening to Dr Stipp and I have not heard him say the toilet light was on either.

 

[TorisMom003]

BBM:yuck: I agree. Reeva was beautiful, successful in her own right and didn't need the likes of OP to further anything in her life.

Especially when Reeva had a law degree to "fall back on". What the heck does OP have? Certainly not his charm, that has now flown out the window. His sponsors? Nope they flew out the window too. He did poorly in school so what exactly would he do if he somehow was found not guilty? Live off of Uncle Arnold's money?

MOO

 

[sleuth-d-]

No, I don't think he did. He said he got up early to beat the traffic out of Pretoria for his 10 am meeting in Johannesburg. He said he wasn't training because of his injured shoulder.

injured shoulder - pain.
not training - excess energy, no release.
dedicated athlete but not able to train - frustration.
second dentist appt due - did he have toothache?

additions to the column marked op likely to be on a short fuse.

 

[TorisMom003]

I think he was crying when he read it

Well I posted the video in this thread that has him reading the card in court. I also pointed out at what time it started on the video. Please feel free to have a look/listen and see if he was or not. To me, and apparently many others, he was not crying at all. He was simply reading out what she wrote in the card as if it meant nothing special to him.

MOO

 

[atthelake]

Sleepy time for a few hours and alarm is set! See y'all in a few.

Shady! Miss ya in the past week! Come on down!

 

[clearskies1]

It's so sad -- warning signs were there -- the fast driving that RS's mother intervened in, RS telling OP she was scared of him. I think it would almost be easier for her family if it all came out of the blue.

JMO

 

[BlueShoe]

In other words, the cat is neither dead or alive. Also, observation of the event may affect the outcome

I may be wrong, but I've always thought the cat was both dead and alive. MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

I listened to it and I didn't hear her say the toilet light was on. I'm now listening to Dr Stipp and I have not heard him say the toilet light was on either.

It helps to listen to the direct, the cross, and the redirect.

Mrs. Stipp said that there was light coming from the toilet room window as well as the bathroom window.

 

[OEJ]

Someone should have gotten the firearms away from this guy a long time ago. He was itching to shoot someone, and he finally did. Not that I think he was planning to kill Reeva for awhile but I do believe, based on his personality as I have come to know it, he did know she was in there when he started firing. Irregardless, these were not reasonable actions on his part. He was not in imminent danger when he heard the noise. You grab your partner and get away and seek help. You don't just grab a gun and start firing through a door blindly because you have scary visions racing through your head.

 

[shane13]

I may be wrong, but I've always thought the cat was both dead and alive. MOO

That is a good interpretation.

 

[sleuth-d-]

Heck he couldn't even work up some tears when he was reading the last words that Reeva will ever write to him to the court. And she was his "beloved". The one that caused him to cry uncontrollably and have need of the green bucket when forced to listen to her injuries that he caused. The one that he has to plug his ears with his fingers when he hears talk of how he bashed in the toilet room door (anyone notice he did this again today when Dixon was on the stand?) and shot through said door hitting Reeva with those bullets.

But reading a card that she gave him, in which she tells him she loves him, he shows nothing. He does nothing other than read it aloud as if it were from a stranger. No tears, no sniffling, no uncontrollable crying and no need for that green bucket.

But of course he's being honest and truthful about what happened that night/early morning.

MOO

amazing, the lack of reaction.
suggests empathy problems. imo

also worth noting, reading this marked his part in the trial was over.

 

[emmavoberry]

SUPERNOVANIC HAS SAID: I don't think it matters if Reeva loved him or not. I think what's important is that Oscar said he was more into her than she was into him. I believe him on this. A man being insecure in a relationship and having Oscar's personality can lead to some ugly behavior,, jealousy ... etc. ... not a good combo.

I have a problem with self-reporting. It is often ,delivered in personal defense, self-serving and unreliable. OP serves himself by making a case for his being terribly in love with Reeva, her not as much, and yet, their relationship loving and seriously so.

Doing so counters the theory he would be so enraged at her as to harm her. His claim that he was more in love than she garners sympathy and once again, goes to his not wanting to intentionally harm a person he is so besotted with. AND, let us not forget, Oscar is not only a gun-grabber, but a blamer. He gets ticked off, or overwhelmed, and off goes the gun, through the sun-roof, at the dog.

And then it's all someone else's fault and he didn't do it, or not willfully. The sub-text of his testimony about their relationship inequity implies that SHE'S to blame for his shooting her. He was just trying to protect her, so mistakenly killed her to do so. IF (and remember, Oscar is covering bases in advance) it's established to any probably degree he did mean to kill her or scare her or reflexively shot but without lethal intent it's HE we should feel sorry for and she who had the upper hand in the relationship, loved this very worthy person less...how dare she?

In the OJ case, the jury felt Nicole had beatings and her killing coming to her. In a variety of ways, the defense made this case. Thus, jury nullification.

But the interesting thing is how transparent Oscar is in casting himself as the martyred one in a star-crossed love affair. That he doesn't see how others might perceive his testimony goes to a streak of the sociopathic in his character. Before the uproar--I did say streak. And I do not mean to indict all sociopaths, in any case, as homicidal. Most are good salespeople, politicians, money embezzlers...

But relevant to OP's self-reporting is that a hallmark of this interesting character disorder is blatant lying, with seemingly no care for the fall-out ("I'll think about that tomorrow"), coupled with an inability to read other people's emotional responses and perceptions, especially as these are based on a moral compass the lying sociopath does not possess.

Though a tendency to misread the target audience a can undermine credibility, it can also, paradoxically, lead listeners to find it incredible that " he/she would commit to a glaring falsehood, when the truth can and will be determined later," or wonder that he/she could say something so appalling. She MUST be telling the truth as she knows it. As to the appalling blurt outs, the outright contradictions and discrepancies, he could not possibly MEAN what he said. Oscar must have slipped when he said X, Y, or Z. Nel rattled him.

I can't believe wholesale what Oscar reports. Many (not all) who end up with criminal charges are, if not "born liars," ones who acquire the habit to avoid the consequences of their anti-social behaviors.

Nel is trying to show this about Oscar. And since it's a cunning, baffling, and powerful trait, Nels must work to do so. As many of you point out, and often, and so does Nel, Reeva is not there to disprove or corroborate Oscar's narrative.