Trial Thread 4/20/2012
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snoofer
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awesome you helped daughter through school; we did as well. Where my philosophy is different is that..this particular lady was 23 at the time. As a parent of an adult child; that we sponsored for uni
a. not sure i would equate straight sober and sound mind can = escort
b. at 23 just out of uni or college; as parents we would feel that this birdie flew and crashed; and it would be a one way conversation from us the parents to her the adult child-and escort would NOT be an acceptable option. Not gonna happen. Full stop.
I am not going to judge this particular lady as I don't know her whole situation. But I do know; that if it were my young adult her father and I WOULD ensure this was not going to be her way of life. Thankfully, I do not have the worry. JMO
I do believe though it is not a straight path to get to escorting. I think it is a long winding path of life that gets you there. JMO I do get what you mean about the love and support though.
snoofer
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The trial seems to be showing there are a lot of hardluck stories in that town. The people presented seem to be slugging it out through life, on the fringes, each one with a story of their own on hard life. It is like the setting for this trial could be East LA or someplace like that and all attended the school of hard knocks. But MTR crossed the line; even in the school of hard knocks; this is a deal breaker. JMO
brighidin
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Women have been sex trade workers for a long time. I don't presume to know why some women 'choose' to work in the sex trades. Part of the reason why it is so dangerous is because of the laws. Although prostitution is not technically illegal, other things related to it are, making women involved in the sex trade vulnerable. They do not protect the women; in fact, the laws make these women more vulnerable. A regulated escort service is safer than a girl alone on a street corner. The recent Appeals Court decision in Ontario is a step in the right direction in terms of protecting women, and, I hope, in preventing the victimization of girls and women by unscrupulous pimps and johns.
I think that a lot of important conversations should be, and need to be, held about this, particularly in the context of the BC serial killer, and perhaps even this case, although I submit that characterizing sex trade workers in negative terms will not help make those conversations productive.
In this case, I can't say one way or another, based on a few tweets and brief articles, but IMO, CS wasn't totally coerced into working as an escort, however, MR must be a smooth talker of the highest degree to have gotten her - anyone - to agree to give him 100% of their earnings. Who does that? How did he do that?
In any case, I think that CS was pretty brave to tell the court what she did today. I applaud her for that. I won't judge her, because, in the words of the lady at Burger King when I asked what drink she thought I should have: "I don't know your life."
all imo
I think that a lot of important conversations should be, and need to be, held about this, particularly in the context of the BC serial killer, and perhaps even this case, although I submit that characterizing sex trade workers in negative terms will not help make those conversations productive.
In this case, I can't say one way or another, based on a few tweets and brief articles, but IMO, CS wasn't totally coerced into working as an escort, however, MR must be a smooth talker of the highest degree to have gotten her - anyone - to agree to give him 100% of their earnings. Who does that? How did he do that?
In any case, I think that CS was pretty brave to tell the court what she did today. I applaud her for that. I won't judge her, because, in the words of the lady at Burger King when I asked what drink she thought I should have: "I don't know your life."
all imo
I think we agree ... However after a few stories came out about university students turning to escorting to pay for school my daughter and I discussed this exact issue. I said I was happy that I was able to help her and that she did not have to make that decision however no matter what I would always support. Of course I would try to show her a different path but bottom line she is a young adult.
http://www.fabulousmag.co.uk/fabmag/_fabulous/nolfabulous_features/1337707/Student-escorts.html
brighidin
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Sadly, I think you could find a similar cast of characters in any city or town across Canada.
Seeing the look on TM's face just broke my heart. So horrible and horrifying.
I can't help but think, that could have been my pretty little blonde baby girl. Or anybody's. People criticise her for her choices in life, but nobody deserves this. Nobody. Not a mother, not a father, and especially not a child.
Luckily CS didn't lose a child at the hands of MR... or did she? (moo)
{insert crying emoticon here}
Kittymama
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Quite the day today! I'm all caught up just in time for the weekend, where I'll fall behind again. I knew some of this stuff, but just bits and pieces. I sat up and took notice when they mentioned CS's last name yesterday. So glad she took the stand. Never imagined that was where MTR was getting all his money, although I knew they'd discussed starting an escort service. I thought that's all it was--discussions.
Wonder what other bombshells there are that we don't know about? I wonder if we'll hear any more of them?
Oh...I have been meaning to ask this: what happens here on WS when the trial is over? Do we get to talk about the stuff we can't talk about now, or does discussion shut down and move on to another crime? I hope it's the former.
I also miss our smileys. Sort of. If they're used responsibly. (Except that "rock" one. I'll never miss that one). This is why we can't have nice things.
Wonder what other bombshells there are that we don't know about? I wonder if we'll hear any more of them?
Oh...I have been meaning to ask this: what happens here on WS when the trial is over? Do we get to talk about the stuff we can't talk about now, or does discussion shut down and move on to another crime? I hope it's the former.
I also miss our smileys. Sort of. If they're used responsibly. (Except that "rock" one. I'll never miss that one). This is why we can't have nice things.
Well said.
I can not, and will not, judge a woman who, for whatever reason, chooses to enter the sex trade. What really grabbed me was that, it seems, the accused managed to get all of her earnings. What the heck?! How did he manage to convince her of that? That money should have stayed with her. To feed and clothe herself and her children. Putting herself through what I can only assume is a dreadful job... she deserved to keep it. He didn't deserve a cent. {insert confused emoticon here}
I am NOT judging her. Not at all. Not every woman in her position would publicly admit to not only doing the job she did, but handing ALL of the proceeds over to her half-bottomed "boyfriend". That was really big of her. Yes, she had no choice but to testify, but not everybody would be as candidly honest as she was.
I really hope that, whatever she chooses as a career, she is in a better place now. If she still chooses to take that path, I hope she has learned and is keeping the money that she earned. That is HERS, no matter how she earned it. And I hope her children are safe and well.
*sigh*
All just my opinion, of course.
Kittymama
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I won't judge her, either. No little girl wants to be an escort when she grows up. Women who fall into the sex trade are vulnerable and exploited, and yes, victims. It's easy to "*advertiser censored*-shame" when you're coming from a place of privilege. It isn't right, though.
As an unemployed, single mother, I have entertained the thought. I chose to just walk around with holes in the crotch of the only pair of pants that I own, instead, but I understand how somebody can end up falling into that trap.
Once I do find a job, I doubt my situation would get much better. My pants will likely still have holes in dodgy places. But how could I possibly judge somebody when I understand what her situation might be like, and have contemplated it, myself?
And while, on one hand, it absolutely baffles me how HE ended up with HER money. The money she put herself through physical (and likely emotional) hell to earn... I do understand what it is like to be in abusive relationships. Not all abuse is physical, and it isn't as easy as "get away!". That is the only logical conclusion I can come to, is that he was emotionally abusive. Nothing else makes much sense.
I may not know the woman. I probably never will. But I do feel for her and wish her well.
And with that, words can't explain how joyful I felt when I learned, through testimony, that TM is now clean. Life is full of (colourful word for poop). Since 2009, hers more than I can imagine.
Perhaps I should stop typing now. Getting emotional. I am sure you get my point
And, of course, everything is my own opinion.
And who is perfect, after all? Absolutely nobody.
Kittymama
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I agree, and I also believe he was emotionally abusive. He sounds so much like my ex that it's scary. Luckily I finally got away from my ex. He was a very manipulative sociopath. Rafferty sounds so much like him that it makes me wonder what I didn't know about my ex. *shudder*
I get really angry when I hear people shaming these women for their choices. We don't know them, or what they've been through in life. It's sad that our society still values women in relation to their ability to benefit men. This escort thing is just the extreme end of things, but it's pervasive. You can tell how sexist it all is by imagining that all the players in this case are the opposite gender. Seems ludicrous, doesn't it?
I get really angry when I hear people shaming these women for their choices. We don't know them, or what they've been through in life. It's sad that our society still values women in relation to their ability to benefit men. This escort thing is just the extreme end of things, but it's pervasive. You can tell how sexist it all is by imagining that all the players in this case are the opposite gender. Seems ludicrous, doesn't it?
In ways, he reminds me of many of my exes. Especially my child's father/spermdonor. I have gotten to a place in my life where I can smell abuse before it even happens.
Many people seem to fail to understand depression and loneliness, and the situations it can get one into. And how hard it is to get out of those situations. A lot of poor decisions are made under these circumstances. Some people are ridiculously strong and can stand up to death threats (and attempted murder.... but I won't elaborate on that...). And I have tremendous respect for those people.
Moving on, psychology is an interesting thing. I can not afford to go to university to take psychology classes (or I would). I do own many, many textbooks on the subject (hooray for thrift stores), and it fascinates me, whether applied to myself, or to others. There are so many variables that one needs to take into account in order to even begin to understand the situation of another. One can not think in relation to one's self. One has to think outside the box, for a lack of a better term at 5am. I even find myself understanding TLM, of all people, due to not just what I have read, but what I have been through. Obviously, it is just my opinion. Unprofessional opinion. But what somebody has been through in life can have a terrifying impact on their state of mind, which, in turn, has a terrible impact on their actions and choices. Don't take this as me defending TLM. I am absolutely not. No matter how unwell she is. But everything she has said, truth or lie, makes perfect sense when thinking "outside that box". And all the evidence presented against the accused to date is painting a very clear picture in my mind. An extremely terrifying picture. A picture of a man attracted to single mothers... you may fill in the blanks here...
*sigh*
(everything is my own opinion... and I should go to bed at this point... forgive any typos and grammatical errors... ahh, insomnia)
ETA: one of the reasons I have taken interest in this case is, as a mother, this is my absolute worst nightmare. I remember the first picture I have seen of Tori. She was wearing a purple Disney Princess shirt. At the time I saw that picture, my blonde little girl was wearing the exact same shirt. And I burst into tears. It frightened me beyond words. That could have been my girl. And if TLM was telling the truth, that Tori was too old... it really could have been my girl, as she is a few years younger. As much as I hate hearing the details of this case, I feel that I, as a mother, owe it to Tori. To her parents, her family, to all the other children who have met the same fate that Tori has. I may not want to know, but I NEED to know. It is important. Protecting my daughter is important. Protecting the children of others is important. Children are important. Period.
ETA again: It is amazing how much impact one child can make. I just wish she was alive.
When I was a kid, I had an older friend. We didn't always play together, but we lived nearby and she was always watching out for me (the neighbourhood bully-target). About the same age gap between my girl and Tori. Tori seems like the kind of kid, from everything I have heard about her, that I would be glad to have my daughter be friends with. Just a beautiful little person...
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