Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[Ardy]

That's a very good question!!!! IMO the defense didn't call anyone to the stand as character witnesses because they knew they had better not open that door!!! It's going to be very interesting in the days ahead to see what wasn't allowed as evidence because Derstine objected to it. I am sincerely hoping the jury can see through all of it, for justice for Tori but also to get MR off the streets. IMO he could do this again to another child if he is found not guilty. But that's just MOO and my biggest fear.

If a long list of character witnesses would prove innocence, I think that Canadian Colonel could have presented hundreds, perhaps thousands, of witnesses to testify to his outstanding character, instead of pleading guilty. The list could have included the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Canada themselves..........but would it have made him innocent?

Character witnesses have no bearing on proof of guilt or innocence on specific criminal charges.

JMO............

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Court resuming Jury coming in

Jurors arriving in the courtroom now.

 

[~n/t~]

Here we go......


RaffertyLFP: Court resuming Jury coming in [via Twitter]

 

[Jezbel]

What was the purpose of reporting she was there?

What does it matter if she was there or not?

What difference does it make if she walks with a cane?

Why post pictures of her?

I rest my case.............

JMO..............

Well in that case why report that RS is there, or TM, or any of the others, why say if they are wearing purple ribbons or bows.... etc etc.

His mother chose to speak, therefore it is going to be reported and pictures posted, if she didn't want to be seen she would not have said anything.

MOO

 

[Alison]

wow... so they won't even let the jury work on the weekend or on monday yet they will still be sequestered...

with the instructions taking two days (possibly) this is going to most likely go well into next week

moo

Correct me if I am wrong Mike Knoll said they will work through the weekend and a verdict would be delivered immediatly as opposed to waiting for the Monday. moo

 

[TopTop]

10:02 [Comment From Marlene Marlene : ]
So if a verdict is reached on ther weekend, then the Crown, Defence and Rafferty would have to come to the court room
10:03 Mike Knoll: @marlene - yes.

 

[snoofer]

Good morning everyone

I was reading through yesterdays threads trying to catch up and all I kept thinking was sometimes we show our age.

It is quite interesting when hearing views and opinions and without a doubt I think I can picture who is older and who is from a younger generation. Especially when it comes to MR sleeping around, It shows that the generation gap is quite large at least to me

I got into a conversation with my mother about sexual partners a year or two ago and could see the same reaction from my mother as so many here when it comes to sex..

So we took the conversation to 5 generations of adult females ( My GG is from hearsay but believed to be accurate) and my mother couldn't pick her mouth off the floor because she couldn't believe that having multiple sexual partners is more and more common

To hear in todays society that someone is very sexually active is normal especially to the younger generations but go back 50+ years and it would have been very well hidden if you had more then 1 or 2 sexual partners, it was frowned upon back in those days i believe

My Great Grandmother - 1 Lifelong Sexual Partner ( 1890? - 1974 ) Hearsay
My Grandmother - 2 lifelong sexual Partner ( 1932 - 2009)
My Mother - 4-5 lifelong sexual partners ( 1947 - 2012)
Me - 12+ lifelong sexual partners ( 1971 - 2012)
Daughter - 7 lifelong sexual partners ( 1993 -2012)

The reason i posted this was because of all the negative reactions to a very sexual lifestyle. I believe it is common.

think weekly.....think weekly... MOO

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins his final argument He says Rafferty and McClintic "were in this together, together they are guilty"

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey goes back to April 8 2009 when Tara MacDonald wondered where Tori was Gowdey said she was in Rafferty's car

 

[TopTop]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey begins his final argument He says Rafferty and McClintic "were in this together, together they are guilty" [via Twitter]

 

[Sailor Bug]

Gowdey starts with "Michael Rafferty and Terri-Lynne McClintic were in this together"

Gowdey explains the events of April 8th, 2009. From Tara McDonald's perspective.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said Rafferty drove to a field 130 kilometres away and Tori is killed He says none of that is in question

 

[impatientredhead]

Let me say I think he is guilty and will be found guilty of all charges. It makes zero difference to me whether he planned to kill the child he raped or not. He was there and he didn't do anything to prevent it. The story isn't that MR violently beat her to death with a hammer while a terrified woman, out weighed and out muscled and in fear for her own life in the middle of the woods with a hammer weilding lunatic. MR was physically incapable of stopping TLM? Give me a break.

BUT I do think MR's fantasy was the kidnap and rape and the murder was an adaptation to the situation, not planned. TLM says that he told her about his rape fantasies, that he showed her where single moms lived and which windows belonged to the kids (was probably going to try to talk her into a home invasion kidnapping instead of the brazen school abduction), TLM says that when they got to the car he was mad about how old Tori was, that younger ones are easier to manipulate. That certainly seems to imply that he has been molesting younger children, maybe nonverbal ages (any single mom that dated him has to be having nightmares).

I also think previous molestations make sense because most predators groom and escalate up to their true "fantasy". I doubt MR and his fixation on raping a child went from zero to a hundred in one afternoon. I think the age comment, the "you know I am going to ......", and the we can't keep her and we can't bring her back all indicate to me he had a younger victim in mind, one that couldn't testify or wouldn't be a good witness. If he has younger victims in his past that would support that idea.

They also had to stop for a murder weapon. They had no clue the missing person report hadn't been filed by then, that the car hadn't been spotted, his license plate recorded. That was a trip out of new born necessity.

He also turned his phone off and took the battery out so he was well aware of how that technology could be used BUT he turned it on to make a call during that timeframe anyway. Because he was late for whatever encounter he had lined up. His plan that day did not include enough time for a drug run, a weapon purchase, a drive to the final crime scene, repeat rape, murder and clean up. He probably didn't think TLM would actually kidnap a child in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses, and even if she was willing to do it what are the odds of her succeeding on her first time out.

As I said, I still think he is every bit as guilty as she is, but I do believe she is the one that killed Tori. He has the keen ability to target damaged women. He talked some woman in to being a paid *advertiser censored* and sending him the money! 16k. Then he finds TLM and her criminal/violent past and tells her if she loves him she will help him kidnap a child. Basically dares her like a third grader, I knew you wouldn't go through with it, you're all talk.

And TLM can try to paint this picture of her being a source of comfort and apologizing for his angry outbursts in the car, holding her hand while she pees blood between rapes but I think the scenario makes much more sense when you frame it as TLMs "gift" being met with hostility and criticism about her age, more angry outburst at the home depot, and then the overkill and brutality of the murder screams of jealousy to me.

I am torn between being shocked they got the car as clean as they did and dumbfounded that he still had the thing. He can turn a girl out, collect the cash, orchestrate a kidnapping and rape but it never occured to him to have someone buy him a car and sink or burn that one? Really?

 

[nursebeeme]

Correct me if I am wrong Mike Knoll said they will work through the weekend and a verdict would be delivered immediatly as opposed to waiting for the Monday. moo

ahhh! thank you I misread that portion...

I am glad that they are allowed to work thru the weekend

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey thanks the jury for its service Says it will take more than a day to present his closing argument

As Tara worried, Tori was on the floor of this man's car (points to Rafferty).

Gowdey now thanking jurors for their attention during the trial. "You've served your community very well".

Gowdey notes his closing will be long for the jury, and himself.

 

[greenthumb]

I completely agree with you Ardy, it's no wonder she has stayed under the radar when her son was first arrested, no doubt because she knew she would have media camped at her door trying to take her picture and ask her tons of questions. She's not the one on trial, her son is, and as soon as the media realized who she was, they couldn't wait to get their hooks into her, so they could sensationalize anything she had to say. JMO

But the media did not camp at her door or track her down. To all appearances, the media has been quite respectful of her privacy. I have seen very little in the media about her, until she appeared in court yesterday. But she was there, she did make a statement, and it was reported... just as it was reported when Tori's grandma and aunt were in court. She is part of this and it is the media's job to report. I have not read anywhere that any blame has been assigned to MR's mother, but if I did, THEN I would feel it was irresponsible, unfair and harrassing reporting.

All MOO

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey says he will present all the evidence methodically presented in "chapters"

Gowdey promises not to be as methodical as the evidence was in the trial.

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey said there is no question Tori was kidnapped and murdered Gowdey said Rafferty is guilty of murder, sexual assault and kidnapping

 

[nursebeeme]

so more than a day for the Crown's closing...

 

[TopTop]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey thanks the jury for its service Says it will take more than a day to present his closing argument [via Twitter]

 

[nursebeeme]

bringing forward the chapters again for reference:

the crown will present its case in chapters:

Chapter 1: The day of the kidnapping. The surveillance video showing Rafferty driving up the street outside Tori's school and McClintic walking Tori up the street. Witnesses from and around Oliver Stephens public school will talk about seeing Tori.
An identification officer will use photographs and maps to show the route from Woodstock to Guelph.
Tori's mother, Tara McDonald, will testify about the frantic hours the family spent looking for Tori.

Chapter 2: Terri-Lynne McClintic. "She was an essential part of all that happened," Gowdey said. "I expect her credibility will be a major issue in this case."

Chapter 3: Guelph -- video surveillance and bank records detailing the events there.

Chapter 4: the Mount Forest death scene, which the jury will visit. "It will be difficult to go to the very place where this happened, I know that, but understanding the crime scene is crucial to understanding the crime," Gowdey said. Photographs, some of them graphic, will be used to explain "exactly how the killing happened."
"Unfortunately it is only through them that you can fully understand (the) evidence," Gowdey said.

Chapter 5: Police interaction with Rafferty.

Chapter 6: The searches of Rafferty and McClintic's residences and the evidence found.

Chapter 7: The Honda Civic. What was found inside.

Chapter 8: Rafferty's connection to the Mount Forest area.

Chapter 9: Comments Rafferty made to friends after April 8. "He had some interesting things to say to other people about Terri-Lynne McClintic and about the kidnapping itself," Gowdey said.

Chapter 10: The May 15 weekend and Rafferty's actions.

Chapter 11: The BlackBerry. The BlackBerry allowed police to track his movements April 8 and after.

Chapter 12: A recap of the surveillance video.
http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/r.../19463111.html

 

[Sailor Bug]

RaffertyLFP: Gowdey explains that any kidnapping or sexual assault that leads to the death of the victim is 1st degree murder even it was not deliberate

"There can be three routes to first degree murder". He says killing during a kidnapping and/or sexual assault both qualify.

 

[Wondergirl]

If a long list of character witnesses would prove innocence, I think that Canadian Colonel could have presented hundreds, perhaps thousands, of witnesses to testify to his outstanding character, instead of pleading guilty. The list could have included the Minister of Defense and Prime Minister of Canada themselves..........but would it have made him innocent?

Character witnesses have no bearing on proof of guilt or innocence on specific criminal charges.

JMO............

100% agree with what you say about the character witnesses for the disgraced former Colonel.

Even the despicable, disgraced former Colonel had the smallest, most minute shred of decency, to "man-up" when he had been caught, and tell LE where Jessica Lloyd's remains were, so, she could be brought home to rest peacefully, in a necklace around her dear Mother's neck, and bracelet around her dear Brother's arm.

AT LEAST HE DID THAT.

Many fine, upstanding citizens, were duped by the psychopathic, disgraced former Colonel, and many fine citizens were duped by Rafferty, as we have only just had a glimpse of thus far, IMO.

In my opinion, Rafferty had not a shred, not the most minute shred of decency to "man-up" when he had been caught, and tell LE where Victoria Stafford's remains were, so the sweet, innocent child could be brought home to rest beneath her angel gravestone.

JMO