Trial Thread 8 May 2012 Wrapping up Closing Arguments

[robynhood]

..same here antiquegirl.... following several....but I know n/t amd sailor ....have been tweeting often the same as me ...so if you look back you may see it ...plus my tweets often say who I am following ....london press and several others lindaNguyen, globalnewsto, cristinaCHCHTV, Izilleglobal ...as I said it often shows who posted ..I was working very fast today ....so you may catch the exact twsets as soon as they came i posted from reporter....i honestly could not remeber as you are reading about 5-6 and I was posting the most relvant that I know people here would want to see...real tired from it ...going off to bed so I can do it for everyone here again tomorrow ...night all !...robynhoid ...the rockin robin tweeter ..smile!

 

[flipflop]

As Wondergirl posted above...the audio/video show provided by the crown really blew MR away today. We miss so much with just tweets.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/08/19734041.html

 

[robynhood]

MR didn't take the stand because he knew the Crown would chew him to bits and he would have to perjure himself with every answer.

It's heartbreaking to think how many lives MR and TLM have ruined because of MR's sexual deviance and two hours of sick thrills. Does anyone remember on what date MR posted on FB about his pathetic life (however he worded it)? MOO

I think it may have been the day of the abuction ...or just before ...I do know matou has a lot of this case and dates extremely accurate from her posts...tho...robynhood

 

[robynhood]

..oh ya I did see it on evidence from crown concerning M.R.'s facebook account so you could find it easily if needed too..swede...

 

[siestalola]

RH, do you have the exact copy of the tweet with the originating site? Which reporter/station are you following? Just asking because I follow more than five and missed this about the jury tearing up. TIA

AG, I'm pretty sure it was tweeted by London Free Press

 

[tmhco]

Thank-you, Randy Richmond and The London Free Press.

Great reporting.

Great job getting Rafferty's lies heard without him actually testifying, overlayed onto the corroborating video, it tells a very clear story, IMO.

(Number of Lies inserted by me, not written by Randy)

LOVE the bold part. Wish I could have watched!

About 4:30 p.m. April 8, a worried Tara McDonald, Tori's mother, wondered if something had happened to her, Gowdey said.

"Indeed something was terribly wrong. At that very moment, about 4:30, Victoria Elizabeth Stafford was lying on the floor . . .," Gowdey said, and turned suddenly to point with both hands at Rafferty in the prisoner's dock ". . . of this man's car."

 

[Kittymama]

Wait a minute--was TLM in the car with Rafferty at the Esso station? I thought he dropped her off, went to the Esso, and then went to the parking lot? But that's not what that article said that flipflop posted just above me.

I don't think it matters; I'm just curious. I was under the impression TLM was not in the car during the Esso video.

 

[Salem]

So now the court is recessed until tomorrow. A good place to stop and let the jury think about it overnight before burdening them with all the Blackberry stuff and Plenty of Fishies.

Yes a good place to stop. They will go home. Compare today with yesterday in their minds (they are still not allowed to talk about it, right?), sleep on it. Tomorrow the Crown will finish up with all the phone pings that corroborate (sp?) MR's travels and money transfers. Just icing on the cake.

Then the judge will explain to them the charges, what they can and cannot consider, each element of the charges that must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, what a reasonable doubt is, and then the jury will begin the hardest part of all - deliberations.

Salem

 

[justicefortori]

Another main point for me when I try to think like a juror, and try to decide with the evidence given whether MTR and TLM acted together on this... is him giving her the money for the murder weapon. TLM didnt have money that day... we know this, it was proven. She didnt have a job. She went to a church or something, and got a food voucher for 25$ the morning of April 8th. Went to FoodLand and got $24 and change worth of groceries. Made sure she didnt go over that 25$... MTR was on camera taking out money to give to TLM. Im suprised the Crown didnt mention that point in his arguements... maybe he did and it just wasnt tweeted.

 

[Kittymama]

Another main point for me when I try to think like a juror, and try to decide with the evidence given whether MTR and TLM acted together on this... is him giving her the money for the murder weapon. TLM didnt have money that day... we know this, it was proven. She didnt have a job. She went to a church or something, and got a food voucher for 25$ the morning of April 8th. Went to FoodLand and got $24 and change worth of groceries. Made sure she didnt go over that 25$... MTR was on camera taking out money to give to TLM. Im suprised the Crown didnt mention that point in his arguements... maybe he did and it just wasnt tweeted.

Wow, you are WAY more observant than I am. I knew she went to get a food voucher and went grocery shopping, but I had no idea that the voucher was for $25 and she bought $24 and change worth of groceries. Good catch!

 

[swedie]

Murder 101 Exam

Circle one.

18 year old delinquent, pushes young 8 year old girl into 28 year old slightly perverted man's car. The girl was on her way home from school and her mother was waiting for her and very worried she was not home on time. The car heads right to the highway, makes a stop for a hammer and some drugs. Heads to the rural in a deserted field far, far from the road. Only the man has ever been to this deserted road before. Why was the girl in the man's car? (5 marks)

a. the man and the lady needed a third person to play "monkey in the middle".

b. the man and the woman thought that would be cool when babysitting

c. she was kidnapped and will be raped and killed

d. it's been a long day so the man and woman needed to talk, walk and think about stuff


MOO

LMAO Snoof, you're funny and I chose A. Unless this exam is in regards to MR and TLM. Can I get more marks for writing an essay on his case?

 

[Salem]

I don't know, but neither do you or anyone else except TLM, MR and VS.
Since VS can't tell us, the scientist can't tell us, and TLM is not trustworthy and we haven't heard from MR well ... It is all speculation ...

I wonder if he ever talked to the LE?

I would pretty much bet he did not talk to LE except in the interview where he dances around the questions and lies through his teeth.

Even if MR were to have taken the stand, we would not be able to believe him anymore than we are able to believe TLM. He lies. His is on tape lying. There was a whole parade of women put on the witness stand, telling us he lies. So it wouldn't have done any good to hear from him, in my opinion.

If he would have talked to LE this whole case would probably be different.

Salem

 

[antiquegirl]

AG, I'm pretty sure it was tweeted by London Free Press

Thanks, siestalola, but I still can't find it. I followed LFP today and I've looked again through today's Tweets and don't see this reference. I did find a comment by them, though, that they do not have a good view of the jury from the overflow room from where they are Tweeting. (They are not allowed to Tweet from the main courtroom.)

Mike Knoll:
@Tiff - it's very difficult to get a read on the jury from the overflow courtroom. The shot of the main courtroom is VERY wide and facial expressions are impossible to make out.

It's not all that important, but I'm trying to keep complete and accurate files of all the Tweets and media articles.

JMO

 

[swedie]

I did not get mad at one single post today. Nope no siree, you know why? The crown did awesome and nothing anyone says is going to change how I feel they presented.

I'm an thrilled with the Crown's argument thus far. If anyone needs a good lawyer, I would recommend Gowdey in a heartbeat. The whole Crown together did an impeccable job for society and in honour of Tori. I can hardly wait for deliberations to start. Last night I predicted about 12 hours of deliberation; after today's argument from the Crown I think it will be more like ten hours or less but that is JMHO.

 

[brighidin]

Thanks, siestalola, but I still can't find it. I followed LFP today and I've looked again through today's Tweets and don't see this reference. I did find a comment by them, though, that they do not have a good view of the jury from the overflow room from where they are Tweeting. (They are not allowed to Tweet from the main courtroom.)



It's not all that important, but I'm trying to keep complete and accurate files of all the Tweets and media articles.

JMO

Antiquegirl, not a tweet, but I did find this reference in an article from the Globe:
"The nine-woman, three-man jury paid close attention to Mr. Gowdey's methodical address, and at times one female juror appeared close to tears."

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/news/n...ng-trial-hears/article2426215/?service=mobile

 

[antiquegirl]

I have many, many questions, but it's late so I'll just ask one. The Crown maintains that there was minimal to no blood spatter from Tori's murder because of the garbage bag covering her. So, therefore (according to the Crown) the tiny speck of her blood on the car door moulding could not be from the killing and had to be from the alleged rape. But we heard during TLM's testimony that Tori was killed beside the car. The rear passenger door was open. The poor child was hit with the claw end of a hammer. This reasonably would cause tears and rips in the bag, resulting in blood spatter, which in turn could land on the door frame. If there was no blood spatter, why did both TLM and MTR feel the need to get rid of their clothes and shoes?

JMO

 

[swedie]

As Wondergirl posted above...the audio/video show provided by the crown really blew MR away today. We miss so much with just tweets.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/05/08/19734041.html

Great article thank you WG and Flip! <3

 

[swedie]

MTR was having relations with many, many women, his car had its own little condom dispenser. His car could have been his whatever place since he probably couldn't take women to his moms. I'm kind of surprised that there weren't many DNA samples in the backseat which could possibly be an indication that he did clean his backseat.

Well there is the other side of the coin Daisy. Just because MR met a lot of women, and played them, it doesn't mean they were into him sexually kwim. He was very hopeful and maybe Tori was a sexual revenge against women as he was becoming very bitter about all the women dumping him. Of course JMHO. See Tori was a little girl and he could manipulator her a lot easier then he could these grown women. Tori was a defenseless tiny child and he took his rejection of women out on her. I think the condom thing was to show women he was ready, willing, available and protected while they were out zipping around in his makeshift sexmobile. You know, take the girl wining and dining (probably at her expense), go parking in the country like he did with TLM and try and have his way with them. He could've pulled out the condoms and said "look I even have protection". MOO. I believe MR was bitter about women and used them for whatever he could get from them. Again MOO.

 

[Alice Ramnit]

Tori's Law Petition

http://www.change.org/petitions/tori-s-law

 

[daisy.faithfull]

I have many, many questions, but it's late so I'll just ask one. The Crown maintains that there was minimal to no blood spatter from Tori's murder because of the garbage bag covering her. So, therefore (according to the Crown) the tiny speck of her blood on the car door moulding could not be from the killing and had to be from the alleged rape. But we heard during TLM's testimony that Tori was killed beside the car. The rear passenger door was open. The poor child was hit with the claw end of a hammer. This reasonably would cause tears and rips in the bag, resulting in blood spatter, which in turn could land on the door frame. If there was no blood spatter, why did both TLM and MTR feel the need to get rid of their clothes and shoes?

JMO

TLM might not have used the claw end each time, so the hole might not have been that big. If the blood got there when TLM killed Tori I would think there would be more splatter/cast off.

As far as blood on MTR's and TLM's clothes and shoes, I think TLM was closer to Tori than the car door. Possibly MTR was close as well, but I think MTR got blood on himself when he was assaulting Tori in the back.