Try to keep an open mind, an open heart and an open eye.

[askfornina]

wow, smoothoperator!! excellent post!!! great points that i too have been thinking over.

i know i said i would add more thoughts here, but you all have made my points for me. this is an excellent thread and i hope people will read it with an open mind. i would like to see more responses from people who are skeptical of the parents.

i have not seen one thing indicating guilt to me. i have a hard time judging people based on their behavior in an absolutely UNIMAGINABLE time. if sufficient evidence comes to light that this was done by one or both parents..i will change my tune. but with what i am presented so far, i have absolutely no reason to doubt the parents story. every little nitpicked thing i have seen has a potentially innocent explanation.

not everything is as clear cut as spectators want it to be. that is not real life. not everything has a deeper meaning behind it. not everything can be made into something "hinky" and that is what i am seeing a lot of in this case. since there is so little information, everything is being picked apart to infinity and everything is under a microscope. sometimes it just is what it appears to be.

eta: this is not meant to be an attack post on anyone. i hope it doesn't come across that way. it just makes me very sad for this mother in particular if she is innocent...man. i cannot even imagine. not only is she dealing with a missing child, but she is dealing with the media onslaught in a post-casey world.

 

[MyBelle]

Organized searches need to be approved by LE. I personally think LE and FBI are doing an excellent job covering the areas, not once, but two and three times. I do not see TES accepting this case, even if asked. TES has been their and done that. One with "world famous bounty hunter" and now "celebrity PI". What a circus!
I still think MK needs to offer his services to the parents and give them some solid advice.

What advice could MK possibly offer these parents other than to advise them to cooperate with LE?

 

[Blaze]

Wow Smoothoperater!! Powerful post!!

 

[tlcya]

I am trying very hard to examine each "hinky" thing pointed out by those who feel parent involvement is attached to this case through the prism of my own life. In light of all the I never, I would never, I would type statements that are being attached to posts criticizing the parents' (mostly DB's) actions on the day/night of Lisa's disappearance.

So taking that same thought process, I examined my own behaviors in my own real life. Here is what I came to.

I have given birth to a child as an unwed teen.

I have moved in with my new love before my divorce was finalized.

I have taken in a found kitten and let my one of my children handle it and sleep with it prior to it being vetted.

I have on occasion had a glass or two of wine after putting down my kids for the night. (please note my use of the words "putting down" when referring to tucking children in at bedtime, this is a phrase I have used my entire life and it does not indicate anything other than putting my children down into their beds for the night). I have even on more than one occasion had a mixed drink after having put the children down for the night.

I have let my children sleep in shorts or whatever their tired behinds were wearing so long as they seemed comfortable enough for sleeping in. My daughter currently owns several pairs of summer pj's that feature shorts rather than long pants, although I have told her she may not wear them any longer now that fall has set in as they are not weather appropriate.

I have referred in the past to my infant or toddler children as "the baby" or "my baby" and did not at all use it as a means of distancing myself from them.

I sleep with my cel phone near my bed, but only because I use its alarm feature to rise in the morning. If not for that, I would leave it down in our living room on the charger, as does my husband.

I have on at least two occasions absent mindedly left our front door unlocked. That job is usually done by my husband and twice when he was not going to be home that night, I forgot and was mortified the next morning upon discovery.

I have always slept with all of our bedroom doors closed because my first husband is a firefighter and that fire safety tip, among many others, was drilled into early on when my grown son was a child.

So viewed in that light, perhaps that is why I feel so strongly that none of the above has to mean anything other than different choices (not good not bad but different) that different people make. Typing all of the above has made me realize why this case upsets me so. I see myself in some small degree or other in these parents. If it could happen to them what if it could happen to me? This nightmare?

as to the parents behavior since Lisa's disappearance all I can say is - there but for the Grace of God go I. I have no idea how I would function in their circumstance. I get the feeling these people are plain working folk and maybe not terribly savvy as to what they should be doing. I also think they are being given alot of perhaps well-meaning but not so great advice by those close to them right now.

I will not, cannot, judge them based on their behavior since Lisa's disappearance. I simply cannot put myself into their post disappearance shoes. It is too emotionally wrenching a thing for me to seriously consider and leaves me feeling a wreck.

This post has gone much longer than I intended but I guess it needed a place to be written so thank you to the opening poster for giving me a place where it feels appropriate.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I think many of our disagreements stem from different narratives (referring to wfgodot's previous post), written from different experiences and knowledge. For me, one of the things I enjoy about WS is that it's very stimulating for me to read all of the different narratives that posters present, because the fact is that no one of us can be the final authority on what people could, would, should do in a given situation, but it is very interesting to compare people's narratives. Not a single person here has ALL of the information in this case. We are each forming our opinions based on the information available, which includes personal experiences that we believe are relevant to the question at hand. It is as if we are all sitting down to answer a scientific question, and each of us has different data to base that answer on. One of the reasons that it doesn't bother me that I don't have a firm theory about this case is that I know I only have a very tiny bit of data, and I'm comfortable allowing my opinion to form as more data comes in.

 

[marge_rita]

Wow Smoothoperater!! Powerful post!!

Powerful and longggggggg. :floorlaugh: :seeya:

 

[marge_rita]

I think many of our disagreements stem from different narratives (referring to wfgodot's previous post), written from different experiences and knowledge. For me, one of the things I enjoy about WS is that it's very stimulating for me to read all of the different narratives that posters present, because the fact is that no one of us can be the final authority on what people could, would, should do in a given situation, but it is very interesting to compare people's narratives. Not a single person here has ALL of the information in this case. We are each forming our opinions based on the information available, which includes personal experiences that we believe are relevant to the question at hand. It is as if we are all sitting down to answer a scientific question, and each of us has different data to base that answer on.

Wise words, great post PJD.

 

[wfgodot]

I am trying very hard to examine each "hinky" thing pointed out by those who feel parent involvement is attached to this case through the prism of my own life. In light of all the I never, I would never, I would type statements that are being attached to posts criticizing the parents' (mostly DB's) actions on the day/night of Lisa's disappearance.

So taking that same thought process, I examined my own behaviors in my own real life. Here is what I came to.

I have given birth to a child as an unwed teen.

I have moved in with my new love before my divorce was finalized.

I have taken in a found kitten and let my one of my children handle it and sleep with it prior to it being vetted.

I have on occasion had a glass or two of wine after putting down my kids for the night. (please note my use of the words "putting down" when referring to tucking children in at bedtime, this is a phrase I have used my entire life and it does not indicate anything other than putting my children down into their beds for the night). I have even on more than one occasion had a mixed drink after having put the children down for the night.

I have let my children sleep in shorts or whatever their tired behinds were wearing so long as they seemed comfortable enough for sleeping in. My daughter currently owns several pairs of summer pj's that feature shorts rather than long pants, although I have told her she may not wear them any longer now that fall has set in as they are not weather appropriate.

I have referred in the past to my infant or toddler children as "the baby" or "my baby" and did not at all use it as a means of distancing myself from them.

I sleep with my cel phone near my bed, but only because I use its alarm feature to rise in the morning. If not for that, I would leave it down in our living room on the charger, as does my husband.

I have on at least two occasions absent mindedly left our front door unlocked. That job is usually done by my husband and twice when he was not going to be home that night, I forgot and was mortified the next morning upon discovery.

I have always slept with all of our bedroom doors closed because my first husband is a firefighter and that fire safety tip, among many others, was drilled into early on when my grown son was a child.

So viewed in that light, perhaps that is why I feel so strongly that none of the above has to mean anything other than different choices (not good not bad but different) that different people make. Typing all of the above has made me realize why this case upsets me so. I see myself in some small degree or other in these parents. If it could happen to them what if it could happen to me? This nightmare?

as to the parents behavior since Lisa's disappearance all I can say is - there but for the Grace of God go I. I have no idea how I would function in their circumstance. I get the feeling these people are plain working folk and maybe not terribly savvy as to what they should be doing. I also think they are being given alot of perhaps well-meaning but not so great advice by those close to them right now.

I will not, cannot, judge them based on their behavior since Lisa's disappearance. I simply cannot put myself into their post disappearance shoes. It is too emotionally wrenching a thing for me to seriously consider and leaves me feeling a wreck.

This post has gone much longer than I intended but I guess it needed a place to be written so thank you to the opening poster for giving me a place where it feels appropriate.

That's just a brave and brilliant post, tlcox. Thank you for it.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

TLCox, just to be clear, when I said that it takes me aback to hear someone talk about putting a baby down, I was using that as an example of a phrase that has multiple connotations. I was trying to say that I could read death into it when people say so, but it's actually pretty innocuous. JFYI

 

[Buddha_with_mace]

Oh my goodness, what an excellent thread.

I know I have not been posting long, but I have not been able to read as much or post as much as I would like lately. WS is a wonderful place, BUT, seeing the same names in different thread cases over and over again with the same tone of fixating on blaming the parents and disecting every little movement, every word, every action and imo seeing what they want to see, has made it difficult for me to take part. I know that the parents of a missing child should always be considered a person of interest, but it just feels like there are so many posters that jump on that bandwagon and get tunnel vision. The sometimes harsh and critical judgements of the actions of a family who are in crisis and may very well have nothing to do with the crime I find hard to stomach. I think there is a way to discuss and talk about a case and the people involved without the often vindictive sarcastic tones. I do understand that people become jaded and emotional about these cases, but I also believe that can lead to being too easily swayed.

Again, wonderful, wonderful thread that warms my heart and has made me feel more comfortable that others share my view.

 

[Buddha_with_mace]

I am trying very hard to examine each "hinky" thing pointed out by those who feel parent involvement is attached to this case through the prism of my own life. In light of all the I never, I would never, I would type statements that are being attached to posts criticizing the parents' (mostly DB's) actions on the day/night of Lisa's disappearance.

So taking that same thought process, I examined my own behaviors in my own real life. Here is what I came to.

I have given birth to a child as an unwed teen.

I have moved in with my new love before my divorce was finalized.

I have taken in a found kitten and let my one of my children handle it and sleep with it prior to it being vetted.

I have on occasion had a glass or two of wine after putting down my kids for the night. (please note my use of the words "putting down" when referring to tucking children in at bedtime, this is a phrase I have used my entire life and it does not indicate anything other than putting my children down into their beds for the night). I have even on more than one occasion had a mixed drink after having put the children down for the night.

I have let my children sleep in shorts or whatever their tired behinds were wearing so long as they seemed comfortable enough for sleeping in. My daughter currently owns several pairs of summer pj's that feature shorts rather than long pants, although I have told her she may not wear them any longer now that fall has set in as they are not weather appropriate.

I have referred in the past to my infant or toddler children as "the baby" or "my baby" and did not at all use it as a means of distancing myself from them.

I sleep with my cel phone near my bed, but only because I use its alarm feature to rise in the morning. If not for that, I would leave it down in our living room on the charger, as does my husband.

I have on at least two occasions absent mindedly left our front door unlocked. That job is usually done by my husband and twice when he was not going to be home that night, I forgot and was mortified the next morning upon discovery.

I have always slept with all of our bedroom doors closed because my first husband is a firefighter and that fire safety tip, among many others, was drilled into early on when my grown son was a child.

So viewed in that light, perhaps that is why I feel so strongly that none of the above has to mean anything other than different choices (not good not bad but different) that different people make. Typing all of the above has made me realize why this case upsets me so. I see myself in some small degree or other in these parents. If it could happen to them what if it could happen to me? This nightmare?

as to the parents behavior since Lisa's disappearance all I can say is - there but for the Grace of God go I. I have no idea how I would function in their circumstance. I get the feeling these people are plain working folk and maybe not terribly savvy as to what they should be doing. I also think they are being given alot of perhaps well-meaning but not so great advice by those close to them right now.

I will not, cannot, judge them based on their behavior since Lisa's disappearance. I simply cannot put myself into their post disappearance shoes. It is too emotionally wrenching a thing for me to seriously consider and leaves me feeling a wreck.

This post has gone much longer than I intended but I guess it needed a place to be written so thank you to the opening poster for giving me a place where it feels appropriate.

Oh my goodness, this is soo wonderful. As I was reading it I was saying "yes, exactly!". What a wonderfully worded post and one that I whole heartidly agree with, it's almost as if you were reading my mind!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

My issues regarding the intruder story given by the parents:

1. No signs of (genuine) forced entry.
2. This was the father's first night away from the home.
3. Intruder turns all the lights in the house on.
4. Family had a dog...heard no barking.
5. Next door neighbor had a dog which was outside at the time. She heard no barking.
6. 3 cell phones taken, according to the family, to keep them from calling 911. Really? This intruder didn't seem concerned about turning all the lights on while invading the home, but suddenly he cares about the police coming AFTER he's gone?

Just doesn't add up, IMO. Sorry, it just doesn't. Now, maybe we aren't being given the whole story, that's a definite possibility. But if this IS the full story the parents are telling, then yeah...I have some real troubles swallowing it.

 

[tlcya]

TLCox, just to be clear, when I said that it takes me aback to hear someone talk about putting a baby down, I was using that as an example of a phrase that has multiple connotations. I was trying to say that I could read death into it when people say so, but it's actually pretty innocuous. JFYI

So sorry - that comment was not directed at you but rather was to illustrate my point that the very same words to different ear can be taken in many different ways, all of which fall somewhere within the spectrum of innocuous to sinister. Which is why I cannot bring myself to pick apart each word or phrase spoken by DB post disappearance. Wasn't meant to be a pointed comment at all but simply an illustration that came most easily to mind because as I typed it I realized someone had commented on that very phrase.

 

[In da Middle]

I am trying very hard to examine each "hinky" thing pointed out by those who feel parent involvement is attached to this case through the prism of my own life. In light of all the I never, I would never, I would type statements that are being attached to posts criticizing the parents' (mostly DB's) actions on the day/night of Lisa's disappearance.

So taking that same thought process, I examined my own behaviors in my own real life. Here is what I came to.

I have given birth to a child as an unwed teen.

I have moved in with my new love before my divorce was finalized.

I have taken in a found kitten and let my one of my children handle it and sleep with it prior to it being vetted.

I have on occasion had a glass or two of wine after putting down my kids for the night. (please note my use of the words "putting down" when referring to tucking children in at bedtime, this is a phrase I have used my entire life and it does not indicate anything other than putting my children down into their beds for the night). I have even on more than one occasion had a mixed drink after having put the children down for the night.

I have let my children sleep in shorts or whatever their tired behinds were wearing so long as they seemed comfortable enough for sleeping in. My daughter currently owns several pairs of summer pj's that feature shorts rather than long pants, although I have told her she may not wear them any longer now that fall has set in as they are not weather appropriate.

I have referred in the past to my infant or toddler children as "the baby" or "my baby" and did not at all use it as a means of distancing myself from them.

I sleep with my cel phone near my bed, but only because I use its alarm feature to rise in the morning. If not for that, I would leave it down in our living room on the charger, as does my husband.

I have on at least two occasions absent mindedly left our front door unlocked. That job is usually done by my husband and twice when he was not going to be home that night, I forgot and was mortified the next morning upon discovery.

I have always slept with all of our bedroom doors closed because my first husband is a firefighter and that fire safety tip, among many others, was drilled into early on when my grown son was a child.

So viewed in that light, perhaps that is why I feel so strongly that none of the above has to mean anything other than different choices (not good not bad but different) that different people make. Typing all of the above has made me realize why this case upsets me so. I see myself in some small degree or other in these parents. If it could happen to them what if it could happen to me? This nightmare?

as to the parents behavior since Lisa's disappearance all I can say is - there but for the Grace of God go I. I have no idea how I would function in their circumstance. I get the feeling these people are plain working folk and maybe not terribly savvy as to what they should be doing. I also think they are being given alot of perhaps well-meaning but not so great advice by those close to them right now.

I will not, cannot, judge them based on their behavior since Lisa's disappearance. I simply cannot put myself into their post disappearance shoes. It is too emotionally wrenching a thing for me to seriously consider and leaves me feeling a wreck.

This post has gone much longer than I intended but I guess it needed a place to be written so thank you to the opening poster for giving me a place where it feels appropriate.

Thank you for summing this up so well!

ps Do me a favor and don't get into any trouble or the media will tear you apart!

 

[tlcya]

Thank you for summing this up so well!

ps Do me a favor and don't get into any trouble or the media will tear you apart!

Don't I know it!

 

[askfornina]

Oh my goodness, what an excellent thread.

I know I have not been posting long, but I have not been able to read as much or post as much as I would like lately. WS is a wonderful place, BUT, seeing the same names in different thread cases over and over again with the same tone of fixating on blaming the parents and disecting every little movement, every word, every action and imo seeing what they want to see, has made it difficult for me to take part. I know that the parents of a missing child should always be considered a person of interest, but it just feels like there are so many posters that jump on that bandwagon and get tunnel vision. The sometimes harsh and critical judgements of the actions of a family who are in crisis and may very well have nothing to do with the crime I find hard to stomach. I think there is a way to discuss and talk about a case and the people involved without the often vindictive sarcastic tones. I do understand that people become jaded and emotional about these cases, but I also believe that can lead to being too easily swayed.

Again, wonderful, wonderful thread that warms my heart and has made me feel more comfortable that others share my view.

you are very sweet! i completely agree.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Oh my goodness, what an excellent thread.

I know I have not been posting long, but I have not been able to read as much or post as much as I would like lately. WS is a wonderful place, BUT, seeing the same names in different thread cases over and over again with the same tone of fixating on blaming the parents and disecting every little movement, every word, every action and imo seeing what they want to see, has made it difficult for me to take part. I know that the parents of a missing child should always be considered a person of interest, but it just feels like there are so many posters that jump on that bandwagon and get tunnel vision. The sometimes harsh and critical judgements of the actions of a family who are in crisis and may very well have nothing to do with the crime I find hard to stomach. I think there is a way to discuss and talk about a case and the people involved without the often vindictive sarcastic tones. I do understand that people become jaded and emotional about these cases, but I also believe that can lead to being too easily swayed.

Again, wonderful, wonderful thread that warms my heart and has made me feel more comfortable that others share my view.

I understand what you mean. I am very sensitive to it when people appear (to me) to be prejudiced against transients or the mentally ill. I try really hard to keep an open mind about the facts we know even though I do sometimes get upset and frustrated if I read repeated posts hammering someone who is homeless or "crazy." I am not pointing any fingers, I am just saying that I have shared your feelings albeit wrt a different type of person. I am glad that you feel more comfortable and I look forward to reading more of your posts.

 

[In da Middle]

Don't I know it!

And if you do I got your back. Hope the same, right?

 

[Peazzzer]

Thank you for this thread. I expressed moo on this case a few days ago. I have tried to keep an open mind in this case. I just happen to be a person that used to never go with my gut feeling, full of self doubt. However, I won't discount any evidence that comes out. I am not about to criminalize anyone purposly. I look at the people involved, and the first thought that comes to me is what it ends up being. I hate that about me. For instance, a guy drove by me and when I looked up I said to myself out of no where, out loud, wow..that guy doesn't have long to live. My freind asked me why I would say that about a person I barely knew. I. Don't. Know. He was dead w in the month. The pastor at my church said its a gift, I have tried to ignore it and belittle it most of my life. Now I just go with it. I have never been wrong, but thats not to say that feeling in my gut is an every day or every case happening. Call bull, I can't change it.

 

[wfgodot]

I have never been wrong, but thats not to say that feeling in my gut is an every day or every case happening. Call bull, I can't change it.

snip

Well, Peazzer, that's pretty much a conversation-stopper.