TSA pat-down leaves Mich. man covered in urine

[kgeaux]

The problem I see with all this is that they only check a percentage of the passengers. Something like 3%. Well on the news, on two different days I saw them checking little old ladies, one that was sitting because apparently standing was too difficult for her. While they were checking them and busting this poor man's bag, there is no telling how many crazy terrorist walked right onto that plane. We already know that they were not checking packages very well or they wouldn't have been chasing packages around trying to find them before they blew up. I'm afraid they are setting up an illusion of keeping us safe. But not accomplishing anything. There has to be a better system, one that doesn't take people's dignity.

Yep. They check random people. I've shared this story before, but it's appropriate for this thread, so I'll share it again.

My son was flying out to go on summer vacation. He was 12 or 13---this was the summer after 9/11. There is a Muslim couple who are boarding on the same flight. They are going through the line, and reached the point where they had to put their carry-ons onto the conveyor belt, and they had to be "swanned" for metal objects. They spoke little or no English, and the woman didn't understand what was going on. She was clutching her purse to her chest and screaming something in a foreign language. The workers at the airport ALLOWED her to carry her purse through, un-x rayed! OK, that was a little scary for me to witness. My son was next in line, and when he reached the agents, he was required to undo his belt, untuck his shirt, take off his shoes and socks, go through a "body pat" and his luggage was unpacked and searched. He is a little American boy, and yet he was searched and the passengers ahead of him got a free pass. THAT was terrifying!

I'm with Israel on this one: We need to do racial profiling if we want our airlines to be safe. If it offends us to call the procedure "racial profiling" then we should re-name the process something that indicates we are searching those who belong to groups most likely to be involved in terrorism.

 

[Trino]

Soon I'll be flying. I've had a knee replacement, and it's my understanding that using the scanner will be worthless. If bells and whistles go off, I must be patted down because even if I say/show I've had a replacement, I could be concealing something elsewhere. From what I've heard, I may as well just opt for the pat down.

I also have a relative who had a double hip replacement. Although he carries a card stating his medical condition, he said there is no option to the pat down. I don't know that this has been discussed, but somehow this just doesn't seem fair.

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is one of those "you're damned if you do... and damned if you don't" things. I think I might be the only one who has no problem being pulled aside, searched, patted down, being put in a stange machine, whatever... it really doesn't bother me at all.

Again, I do believe that exceptions should be made. I know that exceptions are made all the time for children who fly without parents, disabled people, elderly people. I see elderly/disabled people being wheeled past security all the time... not even having to go through security. If it takes a phone call to the airlines in order to have these exceptions made available to you, or your loved one... then that is what you have to do.

There is no excuse for how this man was treated... there is always going to be some injustice done to some individual in all walks of life... it's sad, but it takes things like this to happen for change to be made... Just read an American History book... our history is full of big and small injustices done that helped shape the way we live today.

We can't take away what happened on 9/11... but I have no problem taking measures to make sure that it never happens again... Everytime I am pulled aside, have to take off my shoes, etc... I know I am doing it for this very reason.

Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[kgeaux]

This is one of those "you're damned if you do... and damned if you don't" things. I think I might be the only one who has no problem being pulled aside, searched, patted down, being put in a stange machine, whatever... it really doesn't bother me at all.

Again, I do believe that exceptions should be made. I know that exceptions are made all the time for children who fly without parents, disabled people, elderly people. I see elderly/disabled people being wheeled past security all the time... not even having to go through security. If it takes a phone call to the airlines in order to have these exceptions made available to you, or your loved one... then that is what you have to do.

There is no excuse for how this man was treated... there is always going to be some injustice done to some individual in all walks of life... it's sad, but it takes things like this to happen for change to be made... Just read an American History book... our history is full of big and small injustices done that helped shape the way we live today.

We can't take away what happened on 9/11... but I have no problem taking measures to make sure that it never happens again... Everytime I am pulled aside, have to take off my shoes, etc... I know I am doing it for this very reason.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours, Lola!

The sad fact is, whether we object to pat-downs and body-scans or not, what our country is doing is not in the best interests of the general public. As long as the searches are random, there is room for a terrorist to board---especially if, as I suspect, many times those who do belong to groups known to have participated in terrorism against USA are DELIBERATELY NOT SEARCHED, since God forbid we should appear to be prejudiced against Muslims.

The story I told in my above post is a true one. While my young son was being patted down, a Muslim couple who refused to comply with the rules was allowed to board the plane. Thankfully, they were not terrorists, but had they been, they would have been allowed on the plane without the woman's purse going through the scanner, without pat-downs, without body scanning, etc.

So while I agree with everyone that what happened to the gentleman we are discussing is awful, I also wish to add to the point that agents are woefully uneducated about how to treat people, in addition to having a high percentage of out and out rudeness.....and to go a step further, I also believe the whole premise of the program is without common sense. It is something the government instituted to make people "feel" safe. Not to MAKE us safe.

 

[MCDRAW]

Yep. They check random people. I've shared this story before, but it's appropriate for this thread, so I'll share it again.

My son was flying out to go on summer vacation. He was 12 or 13---this was the summer after 9/11. There is a Muslim couple who are boarding on the same flight. They are going through the line, and reached the point where they had to put their carry-ons onto the conveyor belt, and they had to be "swanned" for metal objects. They spoke little or no English, and the woman didn't understand what was going on. She was clutching her purse to her chest and screaming something in a foreign language. The workers at the airport ALLOWED her to carry her purse through, un-x rayed! OK, that was a little scary for me to witness. My son was next in line, and when he reached the agents, he was required to undo his belt, untuck his shirt, take off his shoes and socks, go through a "body pat" and his luggage was unpacked and searched. He is a little American boy, and yet he was searched and the passengers ahead of him got a free pass. THAT was terrifying!

I'm with Israel on this one: We need to do racial profiling if we want our airlines to be safe. If it offends us to call the procedure "racial profiling" then we should re-name the process something that indicates we are searching those who belong to groups most likely to be involved in terrorism.

It seems that in this Country we are so scared to offend any one from another Country or nationality. Yet we don't blink an eye when American's rights are infringed on. I watched them search that little old woman that didn't have the strength to stand, yet you better not ask anyone for their greencard. If they`are going to go to these extremes yet skip the ones that fit the profile then it's all for naught in my opinion.

 

[Opie]

I'm totally in agreement with what kgeaux and MCDRAW have posted. As I read (somewhere), it's "security theater" rather than actual security.

Expect to be flying with family within the next year and I sure hope they have straightened out a lot of this "stuff" by then. A family member has 2 artificial knees and always gets pulled out for wanding after the metal detector goes off. A medical card would be useless, we've been told by airport security, as the card carrier could be hiding something metal elsewhere.

Hooray for Israel! They know how to screen for flights. Sure wish we were as serious about security as they are.

 

[jjenny]

They only called him to apologize? How about a whole truckload of free travel vouchers?

This story almost has me in tears. How humiliating for him.

I really don't know why he would want to travel? I sure don't want to travel by air anymore and will avoid it at all cost. What does this accomplish? Do we really think that by patting grandmas and kids TSA will keep us safe?

 

[drip~drop]

I'm still so angry about what happened to that poor man with the ostomy bag.

Aren't there limits???

 

[Opie]

I'm still so angry about what happened to that poor man with the ostomy bag.

Aren't there limits???

Well, there certainly SHOULD be limits, but apparently there are not.

 

[orb4me]

My 2 cents worth.

first. This man had an indewelling catheter and cath bag that would be belted to his upper leg.

I used to fly 2 or 3 times a year. Been to lots of countries, etc. American Airlines has always treated me very well, never never had one problem. Couple of times I vollyed to get the fancy hotel and first class tickets the next day. thats fun
THEN...........I got AE cc, and Delta became my new airlines, not one trip went well. and ive booked over 250,000 miles. Only thing good about Delta, they are close and you dont have to go clear to the other end of the concoarse.

Now, I really dont think I will fly for some time. I didnt mind removing my shoes, nor a light pat down, or them fumbling thru my purse, also throwing away the btl of water to go thru security so i could buy another one on the other side. grrrrr

We have to have tight security, I would rather sit in pee than to be blown out of the sky (like I said, not going for awhile)

I believe we are in the end times, and things are going to get worse and worse, this is just a small taste of whats to come.

As for the man that got tossed around and the kid scared taking off his clothes in between 4 grown officers. I hope they sue their ....... off. When will the nice lady with double masoectomy get searched like that? Theres going to be many more horror stories. We need to keep our prayers going for this country.

<<<puts soap box over there for the next person.

 

[jjenny]

My 2 cents worth.

first. This man had an indewelling catheter and cath bag that would be belted to his upper leg.

I used to fly 2 or 3 times a year. Been to lots of countries, etc. American Airlines has always treated me very well, never never had one problem. Couple of times I vollyed to get the fancy hotel and first class tickets the next day. thats fun
THEN...........I got AE cc, and Delta became my new airlines, not one trip went well. and ive booked over 250,000 miles. Only thing good about Delta, they are close and you dont have to go clear to the other end of the concoarse.

Now, I really dont think I will fly for some time. I didnt mind removing my shoes, nor a light pat down, or them fumbling thru my purse, also throwing away the btl of water to go thru security so i could buy another one on the other side. grrrrr

We have to have tight security, I would rather sit in pee than to be blown out of the sky (like I said, not going for awhile)

I believe we are in the end times, and things are going to get worse and worse, this is just a small taste of whats to come.

As for the man that got tossed around and the kid scared taking off his clothes in between 4 grown officers. I hope they sue their ....... off. When will the nice lady with double masoectomy get searched like that? Theres going to be many more horror stories. We need to keep our prayers going for this country.

<<<puts soap box over there for the next person.

Israel doesn't use the scanners and if anybody should be worried about terrorists it's Israel. Israel actually profiles people so they don't waste time on scanning and patting down people who are not a threat to anyone. The kind of explosives underwear bomber used probably wouldn't have been detected by the scanners. Even if everyone was patted down, scanned, body cavity searched and required to fly naked without any baggage that still wouldn't protect anyone from a mechanical failure on the plane.

 

[drip~drop]

Israel doesn't use the scanners and if anybody should be worried about terrorists it's Israel. Israel actually profiles people so they don't waste time on scanning and patting down people who are not a threat to anyone. The kind of explosives underwear bomber used probably wouldn't have been detected by the scanners. Even if everyone was patted down, scanned, body cavity searched and required to fly naked without any baggage that still wouldn't protect anyone from a mechanical failure on the plane.

El Al Rawks and has always been the best airline. imo

 

[IWannaKnow]

In my very humble opinion we need TERRORISM PROFILING. If we would ask specific questions when the ticket is purchased and that list is then narrowed down to specific individuals to search (including anyone with a one way ticket), we would be much better off. And at that point, if those people did not want to submit to a search, they can swim, walk or jog to their destination. :innocent:

I am not flying any more. No way.

 

[ziggy]

I would love to go to Florida to visit my sister for Christmas, but I don't want to fly because of this. It just irks me to think about spending that kind of money to possibly have my civil rights violated all over the place for a false sense of security and so that an administration can "look good" and those who used to be in that same administration can "make money" on the scanner machines. It's just wrong.

We need safety. We need well-trained ex-military staring down would be travellers, asking the questions, and yes, profiling. Dogs can also detect the bomb making materials that the scanners cannot.

TSA employees are about to unionize and make things even worse. I know they are only doing there jobs and it's not their fault, but they are not very well trained and probably don't make much money. This is too important a job to let unskilled, uneducated, untrained hourly employees dominate as the workforce. If our government is so concerned with our safety AND our rights, they would not put this kind of work force in place to do this job. They care about appearances and money - like almost ALL of them do no matter what party they belong to.

The people know this is wrong. Many people know how we can do it better. The government will not listen until all their other motivations no longer exist.

 

[LolaMoon08]

This is a little off-topic, but I do have a point to make on this subject with this story.

When I was 15-years-old (16 years ago) my mom took me to get my learners permit at the DMV. I gave them my social security card, birth certificate, etc... the young woman working reception at the DMV's eyes got really wide... and she asked to talk to my mom in private. Comes to find out that I had three other people using my social security number to get drivers licenses in the State of Florida. The young woman brought in a detective from the Florida Highway Patrol and he took us back to his office (it was right next door). He told my mom that they were launching an investigation and sent us down to the Social Security office... because I had been working since I was fourteen, they wanted to make sure that they were not using my social security to claim any benefits. Which they weren't at the time and thankfully never have... yet?

They were never able to track down the three people (two men, one woman) who were using my social security number... but the detective put a flag on my DMV records... meaning that anytime I need to get a renewal or a duplicate, I have to go down to the DMV with everything that proves that I am who I am (drivers licenses, birth certificate, social security card, passport, etc...). They then have to call up to Tallahassee. Fax all my information up to them and get clearance to renew or give me a duplicate. It takes a good hour... sometimes longer. I will have to do this forever.

Is it inconvienient? Sure! But I understand why I have to do it. It's not my fault that three people, most likely people in this country illegally, decided to use MY social security number, but they did, and there is nothing I can do about it. I don't get angry about it. I know when I lose my license or I need a renewal what it will take to get it... so I take the proper steps I need to take to make it easier for me and the employee's at the DMV. It makes their job a lot harder too. The last time I went, the employee at the DMV actually tried to get them to take the flag off because I had everything imaginable to prove that I am who I am. They refused. They explained the security reasons behind it... it was not only in their best interest to continue the way things are... but in my best interest. I understood.

It's not hard to change your indentity... people do it all the time for various reasons... so I don't understand how profiling would do any good. You could know everything about "John Q" flying that day... it doesn't mean "John Q" isn't "Timothy McVeigh or Osama Bin Laden." Unless they start to fingerprint people and run each and every fingerprint through an international database before boarding a plane... profiling won't work.

MOO

 

[Linda7NJ]

While I do feel for this guy and feel he should be compensated with a few free round trip tickets to anywhere, I fully support TSA. I have absolutely no problem with being scanned or patted. I do have a problem with profiling and feel EVERYONE should submit to a body scan. We have our share and then some of homegrown NUTS

I flew outta Philadelphia International 11/20 and had zero problems, experienced zero delays and felt perfectly safe from some idiot bent on blowing up the plane.

 

[MLE]

The TSA is starting to appear at bus stations now. Here's a clip of the TSA at a Greyhound station in Tampa.

[video=youtube;X4G-0g9PRrE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4G-0g9PRrE[/video]

Even though I'm an American, born and raised, I spend most of my time in the Far East in order to have a lot more freedom and deal with a whole lot less fascism than a person has to deal with in the USA. I'm currently in the US, but after the holidays, I'm thinking about riding on a cargo ship to go back to Asia even though it's actually much more expensive than flying.

 

[jjenny]

While I do feel for this guy and feel he should be compensated with a few free round trip tickets to anywhere, I fully support TSA. I have absolutely no problem with being scanned or patted. I do have a problem with profiling and feel EVERYONE should submit to a body scan. We have our share and then some of homegrown NUTS

I flew outta Philadelphia International 11/20 and had zero problems, experienced zero delays and felt perfectly safe from some idiot bent on blowing up the plane.

Well maybe you shouldn't feel "perfectly safe." First of all it's not even clear that TSA scanners would detect plastic explosives such as used by underwear bomber. Second of all these scanners are not going to detect explosives hidden in the body cavities. Third of all most people going to the airports are law abiding citizens, so how does scanning them and patting them down is going to make you any safer? Forth of all all that scanning and patting down is not going to protect you from mechanical failures or pilot errors, and since 911 that was the cause of US planes going down, not terrorism. So nothing is going to make you a 100 % safe except maybe staying home and not going anywhere.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well maybe you shouldn't feel "perfectly safe." First of all it's not even clear that TSA scanners would detect plastic explosives such as used by underwear bomber. Second of all these scanners are not going to detect explosives hidden in the body cavities. Third of all most people going to the airports are law abiding citizens, so how does scanning them and patting them down is going to make you any safer? Forth of all all that scanning and patting down is not going to protect you from mechanical failures or pilot errors, and since 911 that was the cause of US planes going down, not terrorism. So nothing is going to make you a 100 % safe except maybe staying home and not going anywhere.

I never said I felt 100% safe. I said I felt protected from idiots that want to blow up the plane.

I enjoy traveling and will continue to do so.

 

[jjenny]

I never said I felt 100% safe. I said I felt protected from idiots that want to blow up the plane.

I enjoy traveling and will continue to do so.

What makes you think you are so protected because you are scanned and patted down? For instance, recently, a kid (see link below) likely got to the plane without even having a boarding pass. Of course it appears he just wanted to fly somewhere, but If he could do it, then why couldn't someone with bad intentions?
"This evidence would suggest that Tisdale entered the grounds somewhere along the airport's perimeter under the cover of darkness before hopping into the wheel well of US Air Flight 1776."
http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/how-delvonte-tisdale-got-on-the-plane-20101213