Wow, I just came up on this thread and am so sorry for your loss. I have a question. Did they ever test the envelope the letter came in to see if there was any DNA / Fingerprints? And if there was DNA, was it compared to the other DNA?
TX TX - Cheryl Henry, 22, & Andy Atkinson, 21, Houston, 21 Aug 1990
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chinacat67
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My sincerest sympathies, mocity, on the loss of your sister--I truly hope LE can solve it!!
After reading through the thread and the links, a couple of questions popped into my head (all below are BBM):
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=71049
Did LE follow up on (a) the hemp rope, since it was "a rare kind"? and/or (b) the intricate knot? Considering, that the rapist with the same DNA mentioned something about being military, I wondered if the knot was a naval or army type knot? Maybe he was not misleading the victim, maybe he was just that arrogant.
Whose blood? The newspaper accounts seem to indicate the prevailing theory was they were cut in the woods?
If not as securely, could that be from Andy struggling to get free? The LE description thru newspaper accounts have Andy being killed first? It seems more likely to me that this attacker, who was clearly sadistic and cruel, tied him to the tree like he did (sitting with back to tree) to make Andy watch him rape and kill Cheryl? Every aspect of this crime is so horrific, wouldn't that seem in line with the entire episode? And he was found a little ways away, but she could have tried to run or there could have been a line of sight, who knows? It seems counter-intuitive that Andy (male) was not the more securely bound of the two, especially if the assailant had a gun or knife that he would have had on Cheryl, thus couldn't have on Andy as well? (Unless more than one person but that doesn't seem like the case?) And it seems like LE needs a good timeline of events, in the right order, to make sense and solve?
That is ultra-creepy--does LE think it was related? Like part of a ploy to get quick control of the two? If this was a secluded part of the area, why on earth would the balloons otherwise be there, if not brought by the victims or the perpetrators? Were they taken in as evidence and processed for prints or to trace them back to a store?
Was this ever completed? Any help at all??? And I'm hesitant to bring this up, and I am sure this is ridiculously obvious, but is LE sure Andy and Cheryl didn't have sex prior and it's not his DNA? I imagine that was the first thing crossed off the list, but the suspect sketch looks somewhat like Andy to me (with his hair pressed down from a stocking mask?) I don't want to imply anything at all about his background or character-----only want to make sure consensual sex was crossed off the list so the DNA isn't a wild goose chase. Even the timing is weird---no hits on that DNA since those two times, very close together? Again, I apologize if that line of thinking offends. Most definitely, MOO.
All quotes, other than the AMW one, are from the Houston Chronicle articles at http://www.helpcherylandandy.com
I really hope you find resolution, mocity, and my prayers are with you and your family.
After reading through the thread and the links, a couple of questions popped into my head (all below are BBM):
http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=71049
Did LE follow up on (a) the hemp rope, since it was "a rare kind"? and/or (b) the intricate knot? Considering, that the rapist with the same DNA mentioned something about being military, I wondered if the knot was a naval or army type knot? Maybe he was not misleading the victim, maybe he was just that arrogant.
Whose blood? The newspaper accounts seem to indicate the prevailing theory was they were cut in the woods?
If not as securely, could that be from Andy struggling to get free? The LE description thru newspaper accounts have Andy being killed first? It seems more likely to me that this attacker, who was clearly sadistic and cruel, tied him to the tree like he did (sitting with back to tree) to make Andy watch him rape and kill Cheryl? Every aspect of this crime is so horrific, wouldn't that seem in line with the entire episode? And he was found a little ways away, but she could have tried to run or there could have been a line of sight, who knows? It seems counter-intuitive that Andy (male) was not the more securely bound of the two, especially if the assailant had a gun or knife that he would have had on Cheryl, thus couldn't have on Andy as well? (Unless more than one person but that doesn't seem like the case?) And it seems like LE needs a good timeline of events, in the right order, to make sense and solve?
That is ultra-creepy--does LE think it was related? Like part of a ploy to get quick control of the two? If this was a secluded part of the area, why on earth would the balloons otherwise be there, if not brought by the victims or the perpetrators? Were they taken in as evidence and processed for prints or to trace them back to a store?
Was this ever completed? Any help at all??? And I'm hesitant to bring this up, and I am sure this is ridiculously obvious, but is LE sure Andy and Cheryl didn't have sex prior and it's not his DNA? I imagine that was the first thing crossed off the list, but the suspect sketch looks somewhat like Andy to me (with his hair pressed down from a stocking mask?) I don't want to imply anything at all about his background or character-----only want to make sure consensual sex was crossed off the list so the DNA isn't a wild goose chase. Even the timing is weird---no hits on that DNA since those two times, very close together? Again, I apologize if that line of thinking offends. Most definitely, MOO.
All quotes, other than the AMW one, are from the Houston Chronicle articles at http://www.helpcherylandandy.com
I really hope you find resolution, mocity, and my prayers are with you and your family.
WholeLottaRosie
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Bumping for Cheryl and Andy
iamnotagolem
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Is there a chance that the note was from the killer and the killer died after sending the ransom note? Like he sent the note, then was in an accident? Have you checked obits for people that died within a few days of the note being written?
From the Cheryl & Andy website:
"DNA from their murder is linked to another assault from 1990. Just months before their lives were taken from this world another woman was attacked in Houston. She was able to escape and is thankfully, still alive. Despite the statutes of limitations expiring, making it impossible to arrest him on criminal charges for that specific assault - this courageous and heroic woman came forward to meet with a sketch artist to describe her attacker.
Below is the sketch of the attacker and murderer. Andy was 21 and Cheryl 22 - just beginning to explore life. This man chose to attack, torture and murder Cheryl and Andy. He chose to end their lives and possibly others. "
Wow. It's terrible that he attacked another person, too - but great that DNA links him to a victim who could provide a good description. I was impressed that they'd thought to age progress the perp:
http://www.helpcherylandandy.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/AGEProgressionSketch.jpg
They look like they were such nice kids, I really feel for their families. Hopefully somebody who knows the perp comes forward, some day.
I kind of hope that note is a hoax. It takes a special kind of scum to want 100,000 for help in solving a murder, possibly worse than the kind who would play a cruel hoax like that. And to talk of hiring a lawyer... Ugh.
"DNA from their murder is linked to another assault from 1990. Just months before their lives were taken from this world another woman was attacked in Houston. She was able to escape and is thankfully, still alive. Despite the statutes of limitations expiring, making it impossible to arrest him on criminal charges for that specific assault - this courageous and heroic woman came forward to meet with a sketch artist to describe her attacker.
Below is the sketch of the attacker and murderer. Andy was 21 and Cheryl 22 - just beginning to explore life. This man chose to attack, torture and murder Cheryl and Andy. He chose to end their lives and possibly others. "
Wow. It's terrible that he attacked another person, too - but great that DNA links him to a victim who could provide a good description. I was impressed that they'd thought to age progress the perp:
http://www.helpcherylandandy.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/AGEProgressionSketch.jpg
They look like they were such nice kids, I really feel for their families. Hopefully somebody who knows the perp comes forward, some day.
I kind of hope that note is a hoax. It takes a special kind of scum to want 100,000 for help in solving a murder, possibly worse than the kind who would play a cruel hoax like that. And to talk of hiring a lawyer... Ugh.
Claudette
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The attacker was around their age it looks like. I wonder if one of them knew him and that was why the murders were so horrible...
The murders were exceptionally horrible, IMO, and I am very sorry for stating that if the family is still reading here. I think it's important to point out though because it gives possible insight into motive (besides the obvious, was there something more to it like my suggestion above?) but also into the person. I feel like this was a one man job, and that he was either a total control freak or something in his life was spiraling out of control. The "control" he had in these murders (tying up and to a tree) is key IMO. I think Andy being tied to a tree is evidence that this was a one man job, he put him there to keep him out of the way. (sorry, couldn't think of a more eloquent way to say that)
The murders were exceptionally horrible, IMO, and I am very sorry for stating that if the family is still reading here. I think it's important to point out though because it gives possible insight into motive (besides the obvious, was there something more to it like my suggestion above?) but also into the person. I feel like this was a one man job, and that he was either a total control freak or something in his life was spiraling out of control. The "control" he had in these murders (tying up and to a tree) is key IMO. I think Andy being tied to a tree is evidence that this was a one man job, he put him there to keep him out of the way. (sorry, couldn't think of a more eloquent way to say that)
scriptgirl
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I hope they find this person. Hard to believe he hasn't killed again.
Kimster
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:rose: Cheryl and Andy's case is our featured cold case from 1/5/2013 to 1/13/2013 :rose:
rosesfromangels
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I'm getting exactly the same impression Claudette. This is a rage filled control freak. If I read all this correctly, the other victim thought he was wearing a security guard or military uniform. I wonder why he used a gun in the first attack but a knife in the second? But the uniform speaks to a need/desire for control. I think he knew her, if just from a distance. Perhaps she slighted him in some way, but huge in his mind.
I think he wasn't caught because he moved. Given the extreme nature of the attack, I would think he couldn't control himself and would strike again, but perhaps the crimes weren't/haven't been linked.
The sketch is very good, the age regression too. He's distinctive looking, someone who would get recognized, and he probably knows that. I'd put a beard and mustache and glasses on that sketch too; maybe even a shaved head. He'd want to disguise himself from such a revealing sketch.
My prayers go to the families, and God Bless the sister in law for never giving up. I wouldn't be surprised if they finally find this creature and bring him to justice. This type of insane behavior doesn't change, and he's most likely been leaving a trail, wherever he is.
zwiebel
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List of military bases near Houston. Also lists nearby places to stay, which could be useful. I think the military uniform comment was a red herring, but the suspect might well have worked somewhere that brought him into contact with the military.
http://military-hotels.us/texas/tx-bases.html
It's not uncommon for people with 'disordered' personalities to pretend to be marines/vietnam vets etc, I think? They often get unmasked because they insist on inserting themselves into groups of real vets. There are websites set up to unmask them and they often carry pics, I will try and find a link to them too.
http://military-hotels.us/texas/tx-bases.html
It's not uncommon for people with 'disordered' personalities to pretend to be marines/vietnam vets etc, I think? They often get unmasked because they insist on inserting themselves into groups of real vets. There are websites set up to unmask them and they often carry pics, I will try and find a link to them too.
zwiebel
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Here's a classic example of what I am getting at, from Australia:
'It was true that he'd spent much of the war as a prisoner, but in Melbourne.
He'd been in Pentridge Prison serving eight years of a 10-year sentence for rape.'
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...true-crime-scene/story-fnat7dag-1226427507531
Also, Jug Burkett has spent years tracking and writing about military fakers and is based in Dallas, Texas. Although he has concentrated mostly on Vietnam vets and our suspect is too young, perhaps he could still help with info regarding any local fakers around in 1990? Here's his website:
http://www.stolenvalor.com/
'It was true that he'd spent much of the war as a prisoner, but in Melbourne.
He'd been in Pentridge Prison serving eight years of a 10-year sentence for rape.'
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/la...true-crime-scene/story-fnat7dag-1226427507531
Also, Jug Burkett has spent years tracking and writing about military fakers and is based in Dallas, Texas. Although he has concentrated mostly on Vietnam vets and our suspect is too young, perhaps he could still help with info regarding any local fakers around in 1990? Here's his website:
http://www.stolenvalor.com/
rosesfromangels
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In thinking about this case more, there are other important points to dwell on. In the first known attack, he referenced the name of the victim's boyfriend. (He knew them, or knew of them). In the second attack/double murder we know the boyfriend was present. Was these jealousy cases? In his twisted mind he thought these women were his girlfriend and that they were "cheating" on him? I'm trying to figure out how he could have subdued both of them if he acted alone, unless he had a gun as well.
The fact there haven't been any subsequent crimes linked to him leads me to believe that he is in prison for something else, or perhaps has even been executed? Do they take DNA from prisoners who have been convicted of any type of violent crime? They could most likely solve alot of other cases if they did this.
It might be worthwhile to attempt to go through files/pictures of all convicted violent offenders in the immediate areas and see if there is a visual match. I know this sounds like a huge task, but the police use software that helps match facial features, etc.
The fact there haven't been any subsequent crimes linked to him leads me to believe that he is in prison for something else, or perhaps has even been executed? Do they take DNA from prisoners who have been convicted of any type of violent crime? They could most likely solve alot of other cases if they did this.
It might be worthwhile to attempt to go through files/pictures of all convicted violent offenders in the immediate areas and see if there is a visual match. I know this sounds like a huge task, but the police use software that helps match facial features, etc.
Kimster
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zwiebel
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Miniscule 'e's when they occur at the end of a word; the majority of 'o's have a gap at the top; every word begins with a capital letter then goes into small print; capital 'H's have a diagonal slant on the right-hand vertical.
And the 'd' at the end of 'killed' has a nasty little fishhook at the top, but none of the other 'd's 'l's etc do.
And the 'n's in anon look almost like 's's that have fallen over.
ETA I don't think the killer wrote this letter. He didn't bother to take the money from his murder or his rape victims. It would still be good to bring this person to justice though, for wasting police time and tormenting the families.
And the 'd' at the end of 'killed' has a nasty little fishhook at the top, but none of the other 'd's 'l's etc do.
And the 'n's in anon look almost like 's's that have fallen over.
ETA I don't think the killer wrote this letter. He didn't bother to take the money from his murder or his rape victims. It would still be good to bring this person to justice though, for wasting police time and tormenting the families.
rosesfromangels
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If this is the killer that sent this letter, it would reinforce his desire to taunt and control. From the first attack where the woman survived, we know he enjoys taunting. I'm sorry to say this, but I think he tied the young man to the tree and made him watch his evil acts. This leads me to wonder whether his anger is truly towards the men vs. the women. (He referenced the boyfriend of the first victim when he was taunting her). This is psychologically a complicated case. It would be great to hear from someone who has expertise in this aspect of the case. I think if we can get into this creatures head more, we can get closer to his whereabouts.
zwiebel
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This article says an early satellite photo of the crime scene was found, an hour before the couple were killed. But although the company waived the search fee, they wanted thousands of dollars for the actual photo and LE couldn't afford it!
That could have contained vital evidence. I wonder if it was ever handed over to LE?
http://www.helpcherylandandy.com/id5.html
That could have contained vital evidence. I wonder if it was ever handed over to LE?
http://www.helpcherylandandy.com/id5.html
zwiebel
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Are there any official LE press releases about this murder? The articles are all over the place -half of them quote LE as saying Andy and Cheryl were murdered on the night of August 21st, 1990, the other half says it was the 22nd.
It's crazy. Can anyone confirm the actual day?
It's crazy. Can anyone confirm the actual day?