<<< my (#) in red
daisytrail
1. Apologies for shortening your full user name. I should not done that; it was inappropriate.
2. I'd like to read more about CIT's, how they operate, are funded, etc. Any suggestions, esp online?
3. "...LEOs connected with CITs who have gone through it and know how to handle..."
It's terrific that some LE agencies train for and can handle these situations.
4. Comparing LE response to spousal dom vio to LE response to MI person dom vio?
As some ppl on this thread have said, at some point well before 100+ dom vio calls from same couple, seems there would be arrests.
W spousal or I/P dom vio situations, we have 2 non-MI adults. Well, imo, 2 diff subjects, jmo, moo.
5. Not insisting that LEOs are obligated to act only after a crime has occurred.
My point was distinguishing general nature of crimes "in neighborhoods" vs crimes "in homes" You said we have a right to protection from both.
a) In neighborhood - usu LE assistance is after the fact, because by its very nature, perp typically commits crime against victim,& perp leaves.
While getting mugged etc in the street, vic's call to 911 is not fast enough for LE arrive there on the spot before perp leaves.
b) In home - fam calling 911 re MI person, when LE arrives 'perp' is still w 'vic' at scene (often, at least that's what I get from this case).
In cases of stranger unlawfully entering home & stealing, usu vic would be away at time of burglar, etc. so vic calls 911 after the fact.
6. Not saying LEs' preventing crime is not "of some value if it saves lives." Saying they tend to arrest after crimes, can't always prevent crimes.
7. Spousal abuse in the past was ignored until someone died? I do not recall that commonly happening (personally I'm north of 55, jme, meo).
Certainly some was not reported, and yes, some was ignored. IDK how widely re either.
Again that is a different subject and expounding about it will not, imo, further exploring poss solutions w MI-persons & LE interface.
8. "Remain backward when dealing with the mentally ill"? No, not saying that.
Wondering if fam of MI-persons menacing, threatening etc, can reasonably expect LE to resolve those issues/problems/situations for them
without injury to fam members, to MI persons, or to LE? Some of the time, most of the time, every time?
Can US LE train & gear up to do that? Every time? Or is the health care/medical environment better tasked w this? IDK
Apology accepted of course.
To address your point 2:
www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Treatment-for-mentally-ill-better-than-jail/2241568.php
The above link deals with a program in San Antonio about CIT training. The goal is to make it mandatory.
www.en.Wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_intervention_training
The above link talks in general about Crisis Intervention Training and Texas.
To address point 4:
Yes, I am back on that again. Last year the Dallas Morning News did extensive coverage of domestic violence. It was an excellent series. One point that they made and the laws concur with this is that domestic violence does not include spousal or partner violence but any in home violence that arises among the residence, as well as violence that arises between family members that have formerly lived together. This also includes not just spouses but all intimate partners and also sibling and parental relationships. By definition, the situation we are dealing with
is domestic violence. Also domestic violence: That between same sex intimate partners. Last year when the DMN was keeping track of this, there were almost as many female perps as male. They did not keep track of all cases (that would be impossible). They kept track of those in which a death resulted. One of the more horrific involved a young man killing his family.
To address point 5:
I think that I did not at first properly understand you. If your point is that LE cannot possible scrutinize or referee every disagreement in a home, you are certainly right. However, here we are definitely talking about a physical threat to the family. Some people are arguing that the MI person having a screwdriver in his hands represents a threat. One cannot consistently argue that said screwdriver was a threat to officers but not to his mother. She undoubtedly called the police because she felt threatened. There must be a threat to take someone to a mental hospital, for instance. We cannot know how overt this threat was to his mother before police arrived but she certainly wanted away from her son judging by her action of having her purse and abruptly moving away from her son when the police arrived.
I do understand the greater risk and complications of an in-home potential vic and perpetrator.
However, if you prefer that we just agree to disagree on this subject, we can certainly do so.
To address point 6:
I find we are in agreement.
To address point 7:
I am 66. When I was around 6yo, a man next door was constantly beating his wife, terrorizing his children, and threatening me and my brothers for just playing in our yard. This man happened to be a church maintenance man and police officer. He lost his LE position when he took church funds for his own use. He made everyone around him fearful and yet
the police never arrested him for domestic violence. Fast forward to when I was thirteen, when they had moved out of town and we had relocated to a new house. The nightly news came on and we learned his wife had shot him when he was trying to climb the outside of a hotel to a room she had locked herself in with the purpose of hurting her. She shot and killed him and everyone in my family cheered. She probably went to jail, poor woman. I am a former victim advocate (1980s) and I know well how domestic violence victims and their welfare were generally ignored by the police.
To address point 8:
I do not blame any family who has a seriously mentally ill family member for trying to secure all available resources. That is what families should do. LE is just one resource. One of the main problems is that years ago, Congress (yes, those guys in Washington, D.C.) passed a law that mandated parity in the treatment of physically and mentally ill people. That bill has yet to be properly implemented or fully funded. It is partly a societal problem, partly a medical problem (HIPPA laws as they are interpreted being part of the problem), partly an insurance problem, partly a law enforcement problem. I never said it should be all on LE. It is too large of a problem to be solved by LE alone.
Thank you for the courteous debate.
