TX - Five Yates children drowned, Houston, 20 June 2001 *Insanity*

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http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=D50B7D46-F3FF-41BB-AA79-31ECE2B4E1E5

The husband of a Houston woman who drowned the couple's five children, has filed for divorce.
The petition from Russell Yates was filed in Harris County, where Andrea Yates was convicted of capital murder in the 2001 deaths of three of the children.
~~~~~~~
An attorney for Russell Yates says the petition was mailed last week and seeks a "standard, uncontested divorce."
Yates didn't immediately return a phone message today for comment on his divorce proceeding.
Andrea Yates attorney George Parnham says he's certain she is aware of the filing.
During her trial, psychiatrists testified the woman suffered from schizophrenia and postpartum depression. "


She's back in prison now, so I guess he figured it was safe to dump her.
 
I think part of the issue is that the law focuses on whether the women know that what they are doing is "legally" wrong rather than "morally" wrong. I think they feel like they are beholden to a higher law - "God's" and that what they are doing is what he wants because they think they are hearing the voice of God, etc. In my mind this qualifies as insane. They love their kids but believe that God wants them or that they are saving their kids from going to the devil by sending them to God. Its crazy stuff...
 
I was just reading people mag...said he wanted a divorce cuz he WANTS MORE children!!! This guy should not be allowed to have children...The moron overwhelmed her with kids....ignored her mental state and put those kids at risk...He is as culpable...or maybe more so cuz he is supposed to be sane...Just makes me BOIL!!!!:furious:
 
Well, we have to admit Rusty is honest--He said from almost the minute Andrea was convicted that he wanted more children! Seems to me he should take more responsibility for not protecting the ones he had already before he decides to have more--And as Andrea's lawyer said today in the news release, his timing could have been better, he picks the third anniversary of the children's deaths to say "Andrea, I'm getting a divorce. "

Rachel, if you read the accounts, you see that Rusty was a well-educated man who basically decided that if she just got the right medication, she could have as many children as he wanted. Anybody doing even the slightest bit of research on the Internet or talking to a doctor today would find that when it comes to severe post-partum psychosis, or any kind of pyschosis, there is no easy cure. As an engineer for NASA, Rusty had access to the information. He chose to ignore it, just as he ignored the doctor's advice that if Andrea had more children, she would surely be pyschotic again. And again--Rusty thought it was reasonable that "Andrea had two hours to herself every week."

Think of having a husband who measured your time alone--who doled it out to you--and thought it perfectly reasonable that during that time, you would go to the grocery store alone with just baby Mary.

What makes one mentally ill person violent and not another? What caused Andrea Yates to kill, whereas some women merely sink into depression or self-medicate with alcohol or drugs? We don't really know. There was certainly some element of rage and violence within Andrea that lashed out. I cannot help but think there was a mixture of sheer raw emotion mixed with the insane justification her brain gave her ("kill the children and they will go to heaven") that enabled her to chase those poor children down and hold them underwater.

IMO, Rusty has never really faced up to his loss because he's always felt he could have more children.

To be honest, I'm surprised he's waited this long to divorce her. I really thought it would have happened sooner, given some of his comments. But the house just sold this spring and not it will be much easier just to divide up the assets.
 
Texana said:
Sorry, DeputyLinda, I have to take exception to this with you. I don't think Andrea Yates should be out in public for one minute BUT...she was clearly psychotic after her first child. Doctors told her husband that if she continued to have children, she was at risk for severe post-partum depression--but he thought they could just "fix it" with medicine.

I don't know how familiar you are with the details of the case, but her husband moved her and the four children (before Mary's birth) into a small bus-sized travel trailer. They were going to move around the country and home school. They sold their previous decent-sized home and got the bus, but Andrea couldn't handle it, so they bought a smaller home in Clear Lake.

I think she was a person driven to perfection, and the combination of the hormonal imbalances and depression--when she felt she couldn't live up to her ideals, and most definitely Rusty's--was a killer combination.

She was not bathing or eating really at the time of the killings. She had tried to kill herself before, but oddly enough, no one saw that as a sign of violence.

Rusty Yates said once she had "two hours all to herself" each week--and she usually chose to go grocery shopping with the baby then.
<SNIP>
Besides the obvious mental distress this woman was undergoing, two things stand out. She had just 2 hours to herself each week? Is this not in and of itself insane? Who can manage their life under that kind of pressure??

Also, Rusty moved them into a bus sized travel trailer? This is also unacceptable. Of course, he is at work all day, but to live in such small quarters with 4 children and also home-schooling them is atrocious.

The least he should have been charged with was spousal abuse. And that preacher that thought women were evil that Andrea was in close contact with. That sure didn't help her at all.

I know what she did is uncomprehensible, but she was clearly not herself. Her suicide attempt and the facts that she was barely eating and not taking care of her personal hygiene are HUGE warning signs that must be taken seriously. Heck, anybody that's ever read Dear Abby knows this.

I've been in the Mental Health field for 31 years and I have seen my share of people seriously in need of help. Rusty needs help here and he can't see it, just like he couldn't see that his wife and children were in grave danger, partly due to his selfish actions, including having more children against medical advice.

I wish a judge would order him to undergo counseling before having any more children. Oh, and to file for divorce on or near the anniversary of the deaths of his children... This guy is an insensitive sicko. But, being insensitive isn't against the law is it.

Why doesn't WS have a spell check???? LOL
 
Texana said:
<big snip>
3) The third group is the mentally ill, or those who show signs of it. They differ from the others in that they seem to be "perfect mothers" before they kill. Their delusions often have a religious base. The common refrain is "She seemed like such a good mother and the children were so loved."

I still can't understand why Dee Parnham was acquitted (although she is more or less incarcerated in a mental hospital) and Andrea Yates was convicted. Parnham had no history of mental illness, while Yates had been hospitalized for mental illness. Yates' mental condition had been documented by professionals as well. Guess that's what a jury will do for you--and an expert witness or two--

Someone dropped the ball here... don't know who.

The one who testified in both trials said that Yates should have known that what she was doing was wrong since it was the devil who supposedly told her that her children were going to hell. Parnham thought her instructions were coming from God. I thought that line of reasoning was insane in itself. If you are hearing voices, you are supposed to reason that if it's the devil, you shouldn't do it?
This is totally absurd. The person who testified in both trials is inadequate. He/She should have been forced to provide scientific data to support these claims pertaining to the voices coming from God or Satan before the jury accepted it as evidence.

Hell, they're hearing voices! How can you expect an insane person to reason at all?

Absolutely!

But that said, I don't think Yates OR Parnham should ever get out. For whatever reason, both women did not seek help or get help from their family.

Why would it be Yates fault if she did not get help from her family? As for her not seeking help... if someone is very mentally ill it is left up to the non-ill family members to intervene to help her. If she cannot take care of her eating and personal hygiene and housekeeping, how can one expect her to take care of her mental health? I think she was beyond helping herself. She was confused because she had been advised not to have more children, but here is her husband wanting "a baseball team". I think it is very probable that she didn't want any more children, but how could she go against her husband? Her religious adviser certainly wasn't any help in this area.

Yes, she should be institutionalized until she has gone for many years sane with the help of medication and an acceptance of her deeds. Her sanity may never return for any length of time and that would be then the good choice to leave her locked up for the rest of her life.

Parnham's religious network supported the idea that one might hear voices or have visions. Yates was isolated in the extreme, although one female friend of hers did try repeatedly to get Rusty to take different action with Andera.

Rusty Yates (maybe you can tell I don't like him) has a problem with authority. He never found a church he could agree with--although for a time he supported a radical preacher whose views included the idea that women were basically susceptible to the devil and often were the pawns of the devil. He said later that Andrea continued with the preacher more than he did (Rusty doesn't take a lot of responsibility for the situation.)

Rusty also ignored the doctors' warnings that having more children would very likely result in further post-partum psychosis for Andrea. He told people he wanted a "baseball team" of children. He seemed to have a hard time accepting "It's not going to happen" when it came to his dreams. I think when they abandoned the bus idea, there may very well have been a lot of guilt placed on Andrea for not being able to cope with four very young children living in a school bus.

Here again, we have Rusty who is clearly more concerned with his number of children than he is with his wife's safety. He hasn't accepted any of the responsibility that led his wife to kill, has he?

When the police arrived after the killings (Andrea called 911) they wanted to get a drink of water--I think for Andrea--and Rusty said (according to police) "You won't find a clean glass in the house."

This says it all to me. If his wife wasn't capable of even washing the dishes, why was she left alone with the children? Supposedly Rusty's mother arrived an hour after Rusty went to work, but did she not do a minimal bit of housework while she was there? Were there not even enough glasses in the house that during the day, the children would use them all up? (remember, Rusty sold all their belongings prior to getting the bus/trailer home.) Or did Rusty not help in any way when he got home each evening?

I would be willing to bet money that Rusty didn't help in any way with the home chores. He all but admitted this when he stated that she had only two hours a WEEK to herself. Why couldn't this idiot give her more help? Afterall, it was definitely a priority for him to have lots of children. Does he think he can just participate in the conception and leave the rest of the duties to his wife or mother? He is immature and irresponsible.

Rusty also said that he "offered" to get help with the children but Andrea didn't want it.

I'll let you draw your own conclusions on that comment.

I'll bite. My conclusion is that this part about getting help was clearly not a priority for him. As I stated previously, Andrea's mental health was in deep doodoo. Why would he leave this decision up to her? What is wrong with this man?

Is Yates dangerous? Absolutely, although she is physically too frail to hurt anyone right now. Like so many mentally ill people, she refused to take her medicine, etc, and wasn't honest when she was in therapy. (although according to a couple who attended group therapy with Andrea and the couple's daughter when both were hospitalized, Rusty repeatedly talked "for" Andrea during group talk.)

Again, you are placing the responsibility for this sick woman to help herself. Why wasn't she honest in therapy? Was it because her husband was there controlling her? Did she really get the help she needed? I don't think so.

I found in my 31 yrs of dealing with them, that many mentally ill do take their medication if they have gotten past the critical time with they are psychotic or suicidal. It sometimes takes hospitalization and a private therapist for the mentally ill person. This person has to be able to establish a trust with her doctor and her therapist. This trust leads to a happier outcome for the psychiatric patient. She/He then passes the critical stages and goes into the healing stages that come with psychotropic medications, counseling with a qualified therapist/psychologist and regular visits with a psychiatrist.

I really do think she is the poster child for everything that is wrong with mental health today, including the idea that a few "drugs" can fix a person.
There are five beautiful children that didn't have to die that day and most days <snip>
I disagree with the idea that Andrea Yates is the Poster Child for what is wrong with Mental Health today. She is an unfortunate person who did NOT get the help she needed due to her family and friends failing her. Drugs play a very important part in improving the mental health of patients, just like drugs for diabetes, substance abuse, and high blood pressure. The consequences for not taking medication is death... including the deaths of innocents.

Andrea Yates clearly showed many signs of needing help. Her suicide attempt (was it just one... I don't know) was a Huge call for help. Why didn't her family respond? Was it their religion? Was it denial? Was it ignorance? I don't know. Why didn't Rusty put aside his desire for alot of children in favor of the health and safety of his wife and current children, when the doctor told them not to have more children?

If Rusty is the sane and healthy part of this marriage, he grossly failed in protecting and helping his wife. His failure and his faults do not extend to his wife. She is a separate being who deserved a lot better.
 
smellsarat said:
I was just reading people mag...said he wanted a divorce cuz he WANTS MORE children!!! This guy should not be allowed to have children...The moron overwhelmed her with kids....ignored her mental state and put those kids at risk...He is as culpable...or maybe more so cuz he is supposed to be sane...Just makes me BOIL!!!!:furious:
Personally I think him realizing he should divorce her is a good thing, it means he's finally realizing he's not going to impose more children on Andrea! I pity his next woman though...
 
LinasK said:
Personally I think him realizing he should divorce her is a good thing, it means he's finally realizing he's not going to impose more children on Andrea! I pity his next woman though...
Huh?? Could he impose more children on Andrea? What is her sentence? When is she supposed to get out?
 
Personally, I'd like to see the women of the world unite and deny Rusty the chance to stick it into anything except Vicktor's plastic friend, Bessie, but that's just me, I may be wrong.

What's wrong here is that children in this country seem to be expendable in Rusty's opinion. Who the hell is he that he thinks he has the right to bring any other children into this world???? He has got to know that HE FAILED as a parent. He, the "man," is supposed to protect his family. He failed his wife. He failed his children. How he has the nerve to think he deserves to "try again." :mad:
 
bookbakery said:
I disagree with the idea that Andrea Yates is the Poster Child for what is wrong with Mental Health today. She is an unfortunate person who did NOT get the help she needed due to her family and friends failing her. Drugs play a very important part in improving the mental health of patients, just like drugs for diabetes, substance abuse, and high blood pressure. The consequences for not taking medication is death... including the deaths of innocents.

Andrea Yates clearly showed many signs of needing help. Her suicide attempt (was it just one... I don't know) was a Huge call for help. Why didn't her family respond? Was it their religion? Was it denial? Was it ignorance? I don't know. Why didn't Rusty put aside his desire for alot of children in favor of the health and safety of his wife and current children, when the doctor told them not to have more children?

If Rusty is the sane and healthy part of this marriage, he grossly failed in protecting and helping his wife. His failure and his faults do not extend to his wife. She is a separate being who deserved a lot better.


Bookbakery, I actually could not agree with you more. It infuriates me that the burden of seeking help falls upon the mentally ill. We do not expect cancer patients to drive themselves to appointments, etc, but we still seem to not grasp that the mentally ill lack the ability to oversee their own care. How can they? It's absurd.

Andrea tried on at least two occasions to kill herself. After the second is when the doctors warned her and Rusty that more children would result in more psychosis. After this Mary, the baby at the time of the killings, was born.

To be fair, I think Rusty viewd Andrea's condition as something like diabetes or high blood pressure. Take the medicine and poof, you're okay. The reality that there is not necessarily a quick fix and it might have meant giving up more children for his wife's health seems to have eluded him. He was told that part of her care included counseling, but that seems to have been put on the back burner. I believe part of Andrea's illness stemmed from a deep depression over dealing with imperfection--she was a high-achieving individual and her husband was of the same mentality. She began to see her children's normal behavior as signs of her own failure as a mother, because she had taken on (and this is where the homeschooling was an issue) complete responsibility for every aspect of their lives, including planning and implementing their education. Without competent therapy, there's no way she could have come to terms with those feelings and unrealistic expectations.

Andrea had a doctor's appointment two days before the children died. She had been taken off Haldol about two weeks before. If she wasn't responding to the Haldol, it's hard to understand why she wasn't hospitalized again. She was clearly not doing better, at the very least.

That is what I mean by Andrea being the poster child. She did have a nursing colleague friend who recognized how sick she was, and visited Rusty pleading with him to try and do more to get Andrea hospitalized,etc, shortly before the deaths as well.

It infuriates me that Andrea told the doctors after Noah (first child) that she had visions of stabbing someone, that she tried to kill herself twice, and yet nobody thought she had any violent tendencies. Apparently, killing yourself does not count as violence. WHY?

There were other "overload" factors in Andrea's life as well as the "live on a schoolbus with four kids" attempt. At one point, she was nurse for her elderly father (I believe he had Alzheimer's, although I couldn't reference that. She did try to overdose with his Parkinson's meds.) This with three little children? And a history of post-partum?

That's why I think Andrea is the poster child. The system failed her, (she seems to have had the "insurance has run out, so you're cured" diagnosis in regards to her hospital stay.) her family--especially Rusty Yates--failed her.

Andrea can never be released because she was convicted and not acquitted on grounds of insanity. (as Dee Parnham, who beat her children with rocks, was, this spring.) If she had been acquitted on insanity defense, she could be released when the facility and doctors decided she was cured--which would have meant going right back to Rusty "she wouldn't take her meds" Yates.
 
Texana, actually the appeals process for Andrea is not yet completed and it is possible that an appeals court can overturn her guilty verdict and have her sent to a mental hospital. I hope that this is done - and SOON!!!
 
Jeana (DP) said:
stick it into anything except Vicktor's plastic friend, Bessie
:eek: :slap: :laugh: :dance: :p :woohoo: :clap: :woohoo: :dance:
I know this is a serious subject, but LMAO at Jeana's quote above. Oh Vicktor, is that the only friends you have?
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Texana, actually the appeals process for Andrea is not yet completed and it is possible that an appeals court can overturn her guilty verdict and have her sent to a mental hospital. I hope that this is done - and SOON!!!

Oh, exactly DP--I forgot about the appeals! I was thinking more in terms of the original sentence. Her first appeal which was based on the testimony of the expert witness (and I want to say it was Dietz--the "expert" on insanity--) to the jury about the supposed Law and Order episode in which a woman angry with her husband kills her children and then blames insanity--the episode never existed--the judges rules that wasn't material enough for a new trial. I think the jury may have been told to disregard that testimony but once it's said, who can say what didn't stick in their minds?

I hope she gets to a mental hospital as well. I really don't think she will last long where she is, I'm not sure she will survive even in a mental facility.

I would love to know what the assets are that have to be divided--other than sale proceeds from the house--

I can't stand to look at photos of Rusty Yates, even.
 
Texana, I hate to say this, but I have weird views on suicide that many don't agree with. Most say that God doesn't give us anything that we can't handle, but I don't agree with that. I think that there are mentally ill people that can't handle what's happening in their lives. They're in pain and they can't deal with it and choose to end their lives. I think that in some cases, where someone has a terminal illness, doctors should be allowed to assist them in suicide. I would love to see Andrea moved to a hospital to get the care she needs. However, even if that happens, she's always going to have to live with murdering five children. Personally, I'd rather die than go through life knowing I did that. I don't believe that Andrea will ever be free, whether she's in prison or a hospital. If she could die and God could forgive her and she could end up in Heaven with her children, wouldn't that be better than what she's going through now?
 
One more note, Bookbakery: I think the only thing one could possibly place upon Andrea was that she did go along with having more children. She did do much better after being on medication after Noah was born, and so she knew the difference between how she felt when she was sick (and having the violent visions of stabbing someone) and how she felt when she was well.

Maybe she couldn't bear to disappoint Rusty by saying "No more" maybe it was too much her own dream as well that she couldn't give up.

And because Andrea was an RN, she had a better understanding that most laypeople about her condition. Maybe she felt that the doctors were too quick in their assessment--maybe she shrugged it off. I think it would be helpful for other women in the future if we could have some insight into her thinking at the time. Most likely she thought, "Well, I'll just take the medicine and it will get fixed just like this last time."

Also, I am not blaming Andrea entirely for not participating in therapy and not taking her medicine. Maybe she was so angry with Rusty but couldn't admit that. Maybe she didn't talk because she refused to believe she needed therapy of any kind. All I am saying is, I think she would be a danger to herself if she was not in a structured environment. Either her anger or her denial was so deeply rooted that she wasn't able to participate in part of the cure. Or she was too doped up--she was on very high dosages to get results. Again, should have been obvious that Andrea was very, very sick and not with something that could be cured like strep throat with a few pills.

Oh, and Rusty used her "not talking" as an excuse not to take her to therapy. I still think he should have been brought up on child endangerment. He still doesn't take any responsibility, though, he just blames the doctors.
 
:sick: Rusty should have been charged with child neglect, child endangerment, and gross negligence. He KNEW how sick Andrea truly was-why else were family memebers coming to stay with her when he was at work?????He left for work even though the family member WAS NOT THERE-so he is(in my book)culpable for the deaths of his children. :behindbar :behindbar :behindbar
As far as Andrea goes, her history of post-partum PSYCHOSIS(lets be very clear here-this is a very serious mental illness) is not to be confused or compared with post-partum depression and was not taken seriously enough by some of the mental-health professionals who were treating her-and they too bear some responsibility for the tragic events that occurred. Andrea needs intensive, long-term treatment and not to EVER get prgenant again! And any woman out there who even considers bearing a child for Rusty should take one look at the vacant eyes of Andrea and run for the hills or submit themselves for ECT(electric shock therapy)!!!! :bang:
 
gatetrekker44 said:
:sick: Rusty should have been charged with child neglect, child endangerment, and gross negligence. He KNEW how sick Andrea truly was-why else were family memebers coming to stay with her when he was at work?????He left for work even though the family member WAS NOT THERE-so he is(in my book)culpable for the deaths of his children. :behindbar :behindbar :behindbar
As far as Andrea goes, her history of post-partum PSYCHOSIS(lets be very clear here-this is a very serious mental illness) is not to be confused or compared with post-partum depression and was not taken seriously enough by some of the mental-health professionals who were treating her-and they too bear some responsibility for the tragic events that occurred. Andrea needs intensive, long-term treatment and not to EVER get prgenant again! And any woman out there who even considers bearing a child for Rusty should take one look at the vacant eyes of Andrea and run for the hills or submit themselves for ECT(electric shock therapy)!!!! :bang:
I agree. What's even worse is that although Andrea thinks the children are still alive, Rusty the religious man now thinks that he is single. He has been dating according to other sources I have read.
 
For those of you who dont remember - this is the woman who drowned her 4 children and then methodically wrapped them in blankets and laid them out on her bed while her husband was away at work!
 
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