UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

The victims job involved lending large sums of money to businessmen. I’d say that’s a significant position of influence. Mistaken identity was ruled out by the police in the weeks after the murder according to the author writing in the above Daily Express article, who backs it up with quotes.
Mistaken identity 'ruled out by the Police' who had no idea what happened at that time and still have no idea what happened. His wife has said that is the only reason that she can think of.

How many bank managers get murdered in the UK? It's very hard to find another example in the modern era. His employment was looked at and nothing was found to suggest a motive, as is covered earlier in this thread.
 
You're not giving us a link to a source though so we can look at it ourselves. You're asking us just to trust what you're saying is a fact. 'I would imagine it's all on film' isn't helpful.
It's in the source I've posted many times!!! This one....https://youtu.be/GbxNuxKu29M?si=z9UzylpCYOOCr5Yr and what I meant by on film.. is as being on the STV Unsolved episode (or research film/footage for this episode I.e linked to what Donald discusses in the YouTube piece - the police liason telling Donald/production not to ask VW anything about envelope - every other questioning is allowed). Unfortunately I can't find the particular Unsolved AW epidode (as i've mentioned!!) as it's not available anymore to anyone for some reason. But if you watch the above link in FULL (the AW section - you will need to find start of it and watch as its 2nd case in piece). It explains what I mean about VW not being allowed to be 'asked' about the envelope - I assume so she doesn't let specific/unreleased envelope intel out. Anyhow haven't they got the person (in custody at present for another crime) for this? I assume they will go to CPS with this suspect soon? Imo.
 
Last edited:
Mistaken identity 'ruled out by the Police' who had no idea what happened at that time and still have no idea what happened. His wife has said that is the only reason that she can think of.

How many bank managers get murdered in the UK? It's very hard to find another example in the modern era. His employment was looked at and nothing was found to suggest a motive, as is covered earlier in this thread.
Yes mistaken identity was indeed ruled out by the police at the time. The Senior Investigating Officer Peter MacPhee gave a large Press conference where he said AW did not open the envelope because “he already knew what it contained”. This means the killer knew exactly who he was visiting that night, which emphatically rules out mistaken identity. Mistaken identity in this case is a red herring. Professor David Wilson and author Nate Campbell are in agreement on that, as well as both being convinced AW’s job is central to the case. Just because the police say one thing in public,does not mean they actually believe it in private. It’s a valid investigation tactic to wrongfoot suspects. <modsnip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes mistaken identity was indeed ruled out by the police at the time. The Senior Investigating Officer Peter MacPhee gave a large Press conference where he said AW did not open the envelope because “he already knew what it contained”. This means the killer knew exactly who he was visiting that night, which emphatically rules out mistaken identity. Mistaken identity in this case is a red herring. Professor David Wilson and author Nate Campbell are in agreement on that, as well as both being convinced AW’s job is central to the case. Just because the police say one thing in public,does not mean they actually believe it in private. It’s a valid investigation tactic to wrongfoot suspects. <modsnip>
I don't recall any of that. You need to give references to what you assert so we can consider it ourselves. This is the first time I've read "he already knew what it contained" as it has been widely discussed on this thread as an empty envelope. Sorry, but we appear to be on different pages on this case.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's in the source I've posted many times!!! This one....https://youtu.be/GbxNuxKu29M?si=z9UzylpCYOOCr5Yr and what I meant by on film.. is as being on the STV Unsolved episode (or research film/footage for this episode I.e linked to what Donald discusses in the YouTube piece - the police liason telling Donald/production not to ask VW anything about envelope - every other questioning is allowed). Unfortunately I can't find the particular Unsolved AW epidode (as i've mentioned!!) as it's not available anymore to anyone for some reason. But if you watch the above link in FULL (the AW section - you will need to find start of it and watch as its 2nd case in piece). It explains what I mean about VW not being allowed to be 'asked' about the envelope - I assume so she doesn't let specific/unreleased envelope intel out. Anyhow haven't they got the person (in custody at present for another crime) for this? I assume they will go to CPS with this suspect soon? Imo.
I am not aware of any arrests in this case.
 
I don't recall any of that. You need to give references to what you assert so we can consider it ourselves. This is the first time I've read "he already knew what it contained" as it has been widely discussed on this thread as an empty envelope. Sorry, but we appear to be on different pages on this case.
The news about AW already knowing what the envelope contained appeared in the Sunday Herald exactly one week after the murder. Back then Northern Constabulary let slip a lot of info into the public domain that Police Scotland later regretted, for tactical reasons. My knowledge of this case reading about it over the past few months comes from the book A Cold Case Of Murder and the many interviews and newspaper articles by Professor David Wilson. The info about the envelope also appears in the Scottish Daily Express which was linked to this thread on 31 October
 
The news about AW already knowing what the envelope contained appeared in the Sunday Herald exactly one week after the murder. Back then Northern Constabulary let slip a lot of info into the public domain that Police Scotland later regretted, for tactical reasons. My knowledge of this case reading about it over the past few months comes from the book A Cold Case Of Murder and the many interviews and newspaper articles by Professor David Wilson. The info about the envelope also appears in the Scottish Daily Express which was linked to this thread on 31 October

''THE MISSING KEY Just before Alistair Wilson was shot in the head, the killer handed him an envelope which the victim took into his home, but never opened. Police believe he already knew its contents and, if it can be found, it will solve the mystery whic​

4th December 2004''
HERALD AND TIMES ARCHIVE
 
I am not aware of any arrests in this case.
I didn't say arrests in this case....i said they have a suspect for it. Who is in prison on unrelated charges.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20231108-064454_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20231108-064454_Chrome.jpg
    98.9 KB · Views: 11
The news about AW already knowing what the envelope contained appeared in the Sunday Herald exactly one week after the murder. Back then Northern Constabulary let slip a lot of info into the public domain that Police Scotland later regretted, for tactical reasons. My knowledge of this case reading about it over the past few months comes from the book A Cold Case Of Murder and the many interviews and newspaper articles by Professor David Wilson. The info about the envelope also appears in the Scottish Daily Express which was linked to this thread on 31 October
That looks a great book. I like Prof. Wilson! Interesting about the envelope too! IMO the knowledge/lack of knowledge regarding the envelope is significant. I'm not following this thread closely at mo. But if there are any big developments, let me know!!
 
I'm only at page 25 so far, but I've noticed that the vast majority of posters seem to have decided that AW was the intended target.
There was at least one other Alastair/Alistair/Alisdair Wilson residing in Nairn at the time of AW's killing. If we assume that AW was not the intended target, this would immediately explain a lot of the unanswered questions surrounding the murder. Here's how I believe the incident played out - all MOO, of course. It's a bit wordy, sorry.

  1. The killer arrives at AW's address and knocks on the door. VW answers and the killer asks to speak to AW.
  2. AW asks VW to confirm that the perpetrator asked for him by name. Putting myself in AW's shoes, if somebody came to my door and asked for me by name - and I genuinely had no idea who this person was why they were asking for me at that time on a Sunday evening - one of my first questions to my partner would be "And they asked for me? By name?".
  3. Whatever was discussed between AW and his killer during the initial conversation left AW none the wiser. He takes the envelope from the killer and goes back into the house to speak to VW to see if she has any idea about what the killer may be referring to. I don't believe the envelope was empty - more on this later.
  4. VW confirms that she has absolutely no idea about what the contents of the envelope refer to, who the killer is, or what he's doing at their door.
  5. AW returns to the door, explains to the killer that he is not the person the killer is looking for and hands back the envelope.
  6. The killer then shoots AW.
My theory is that the killer was local, on foot and certainly not a professional. As has been discussed, the gun used is relatively (by UK standards) common. I suspect that if I was looking for a gun on the black market, the model in question is something that would be somewhat easy and cheap to source - it's far too low powered and inaccurate to be of much use as a 'proper' gun, but still somewhat attractive to somebody with little to no knowledge of firearms.
Likewise, disposing of the gun in a nearby drain seems sloppy to me. I know the Nairn area well, I'm by no means a trained assassin myself but I honestly can't think of anywhere in the local vicinity where a gun could be safely disposed of at that time of the evening. My first thought would be the sea - a section of Nairn promenade is completely unlit for almost a mile. You could walk down there in dark clothing and be utterly invisible at anything further than 6 feet. However, the tide would be in at that time of night, and you'd need one heck of a throwing arm in order to be able to get the gun far enough out that it wouldn't be at risk of washing up at low tide. Perhaps the killer intended to dispose of the gun in this fashion before having second thoughts and doubling back/continuing his route to drop it in a nearby drain. I suspect that the killer had begun to panic by this point, there would have been a visible Police response by the time he had reached the seafront and would want rid of the weapon as soon as possible. If he was not local, or had arrived by car, he would have had significantly more opportunity to dispose of the weapon at a later date, significantly further from the crime scene.

What if 'Paul' was a victim of an Alistair Wilson who was erroneously traced to AW's address? Let's speculate for a moment that somewhere, somebody named Paul was victimised by an individual named Alistair Wilson who had then relocated around the same time that AW had. Bearing in mind that this was 2004 - very much in the infancy of the World Wide Web and long before Social Media had taken off - the simplest ways to track down a person were using public phone records, companies house, the electoral register and good old hear-say.
Paul - or Paul's parents/partner/friend could have tried to track down this other Alistair Wilson and instead found AW, who just happened to have moved to Nairn the same time as the other Alistair had relocated. Paul then contacted 'a mate that knows a mate' to find an individual local to Nairn that would be willing to carry out the killing in exchange for a sum of money.
Once a willing hitman was found, an envelope with a picture of Paul was forwarded to him, to be handed to AW as a 'message' before being killed.

Here's what I believe happened. All conjecture and MOO:

  1. Somewhere in the UK prior to 2004, an Alistair Wilson completely unrelated to AW causes some kind of harm or grievance to an individual named Paul.
  2. This Alistair Wilson then relocates to avoid any recrimination or retribution for his actions.
  3. Paul (or somebody close to Paul) decides to pursue this other Alistair Wilson, finds AW - who's movements likely closely match the other Alistair - and decides this must be their man.
  4. Paul uses their contacts to enlist the services of an amateur hitman local to Nairn to send the message and carry out the hit. (This might seem far-fetched, but anyone local to Nairn will know that there are plenty of rather desperate individuals who would quite gladly knock somebody off for a few grand). The Hitman is undoubtedly given a description of the target, but this is likely of no consequence - especially if the guy is of the 'Kill a bloke for £5K' variety.
  5. Hitman arrives at the door, is met by VW and asks to speak to AW. AW comes to the door, the hitman hands him the envelope with dialogue along the lines of "Do you know who this is?". AW doesn't quite match the description of the target, which makes the Hitman reconsider, but he really wants his payout.
  6. AW opens envelope to find a photograph of Paul (2004, no smartphones or decent cameraphones. Also, an envelope is more dramatic).
  7. AW has no idea whatsoever who Paul is, does not recognise the photograph and says "Hold on, let me speak to my wife" and shuts the door, completely oblivious that this guy is here to kill him. This catches the amateur hitman (who is already reconsidering) off-guard, who then impotently hangs around for AW to get back.
  8. AW goes to speak to VW, "Have you ever seen this guy before? His name is Paul. The bloke outside says we know him." VW confirms that she has absolutely no idea who Paul is.
  9. AW goes back to the door to explain to the hitman that he has the wrong house (and the wrong Alistair Wilson), while AW was speaking to VW, the hitman has had time to consider his position and decides to carry out the hit regardless, shooting and killing AW.
  10. Hitman leaves the scene to dispose of the weapon and make his escape on foot.
This theory would also tie up why VW has never disclosed what was discussed between her and AW during the incident. Perhaps the police don't want it to be public knowledge that AW was never the intended target. Perhaps there is context in the dialogue between AW and VW that directly implicates another Alistair Wilson or somebody else that is still under investigation who is not otherwise tied to AW or VW. If it was a picture and VW was allowed to speak publicly, we might know if Paul was a child or an adult. Again, evidence which might be important to an ongoing investigation.

Finally, everyone has skeletons in their closet. There was plenty going on in AW's private/professional life which could be seen as a possible (if unlikely) motive for his murder. Be it an objection on a planning application, a disgruntled employee or BoS customer, a potential illicit relationship - I find it somewhat far-fetched that any of these would result in the soliciting of a hitman to eliminate AW. You could find potential motive for just about anybody's murder if you dig deep enough into their personal life.
 
I agree. I worked for a UK bank many years ago and local managers had wide discretion in their lending and actions. More recently the activities of the HBOS Reading operation at about the same time as this case demonstrates the power of middle managers. They manipulated the credit ratings of commercial customers to defraud them and this has led to a billion pound compensation bill.
You’re absolutely right about Alistair employer, HBOS. Some of AW’s bosses down south were later fined or jailed for fraud. One of them Michael Bolton is still on the run after jumping bail. Alistair was a departmental head and would no doubt be aware of all this corruption. We’re talking millions of Pounds here. HBOS were lending huge sums of money without proper due diligence. Alistair’s job was in money lending. All this is why most serious analysts of the case feel the motive for the murder is connected to his job. It is surely not a coincidence he was killed only days, or maybe a week or two, before leaving HBOS. The timing of it is too neat. We cannot know for sure as things stand, but having spent two months reading up on the case, I feel it is the most logical motive. Certainly more logical than it being a result of mistaken identity or a petty squabble about pub decking
 
You’re absolutely right about Alistair employer, HBOS. Some of AW’s bosses down south were later fined or jailed for fraud. One of them Michael Bolton is still on the run after jumping bail. Alistair was a departmental head and would no doubt be aware of all this corruption. We’re talking millions of Pounds here. HBOS were lending huge sums of money without proper due diligence. Alistair’s job was in money lending. All this is why most serious analysts of the case feel the motive for the murder is connected to his job. It is surely not a coincidence he was killed only days, or maybe a week or two, before leaving HBOS. The timing of it is too neat. We cannot know for sure as things stand, but having spent two months reading up on the case, I feel it is the most logical motive. Certainly more logical than it being a result of mistaken identity or a petty squabble about pub decking
Whilst we agree on the potential for AW's bank role being part of the puzzle, I doubt that there is any connection with either Bolton or the criminality of his operation based at Reading. My experience of AW's role (both from within a bank and as a client of a similar role) is that oversight would be local or regional. I would even doubt that his role was within the national line headed by Bolton. But the evidence of the sort of activities in business banking both by Bolton and others elsewhere does mean there is no reason to think that Scotland or the local market served by AW would be an exception to the dodgy practices.
 
Whilst we agree on the potential for AW's bank role being part of the puzzle, I doubt that there is any connection with either Bolton or the criminality of his operation based at Reading. My experience of AW's role (both from within a bank and as a client of a similar role) is that oversight would be local or regional. I would even doubt that his role was within the national line headed by Bolton. But the evidence of the sort of activities in business banking both by Bolton and others elsewhere does mean there is no reason to think that Scotland or the local market served by AW would be an exception to the dodgy practices.
Yes while it is entirely possible that an employee in one branch was unaware of what was going on in other branches, AW - a qualified accountant we shouldn’t forget - would certainly be aware that HBOS was a rotten entity. Maybe that’s why he handed in his notice in the first place. High ranking HBOS employee Paul Moore (quoted in one of the AW books) had some interesting things to say about HBOS and AW. I have just checked…the interview appeared in the Daily Mail on 10 May 2019. Worth a read.
 
The news about AW already knowing what the envelope contained appeared in the Sunday Herald exactly one week after the murder. Back then Northern Constabulary let slip a lot of info into the public domain that Police Scotland later regretted, for tactical reasons. My knowledge of this case reading about it over the past few months comes from the book A Cold Case Of Murder and the many interviews and newspaper articles by Professor David Wilson. The info about the envelope also appears in the Scottish Daily Express which was linked to this thread on 31 October
Ahh I miss read this...I thought you meant David Wilson had written a new book called cold case and featured the AW case in it!! (no wonder I couldn't find it!!). Now I realise you meant Nate's book!! (Which I have read!!!).
 
You’re absolutely right about Alistair employer, HBOS. Some of AW’s bosses down south were later fined or jailed for fraud. One of them Michael Bolton is still on the run after jumping bail. Alistair was a departmental head and would no doubt be aware of all this corruption. We’re talking millions of Pounds here. HBOS were lending huge sums of money without proper due diligence. Alistair’s job was in money lending. All this is why most serious analysts of the case feel the motive for the murder is connected to his job. It is surely not a coincidence he was killed only days, or maybe a week or two, before leaving HBOS. The timing of it is too neat. We cannot know for sure as things stand, but having spent two months reading up on the case, I feel it is the most logical motive. Certainly more logical than it being a result of mistaken identity or a petty squabble about pub decking
There must be thousands of bank employees who lend money in the UK, many hundreds of them lend very large sums of money. This must be many tens of thousands over, say, the last 40 years. I can't come up with one that was murdered because a customer took the hump. Against that, people do get murdered because of mistaken identity or for reasons most people would say were trivial. MOO
 
There must be thousands of bank employees who lend money in the UK, many hundreds of them lend very large sums of money. This must be many tens of thousands over, say, the last 40 years. I can't come up with one that was murdered because a customer took the hump. Against that, people do get murdered because of mistaken identity or for reasons most people would say were trivial. MOO
The oddity is that it occurred in Nairn. There have been a number of murders of bankers but they are international in character, the most obvious being that of Roberto Calvi, God's banker. I would assume the police have looked for international links to any deals Wilson was involved with.
 
You guys should accept it's regarding the Havelock hotel decking dispute, the police have as good as told you.
It is a strong possibility but the police have been careful in their opinions. Unfortunately their airing of this theory has been inflated to them being convinced by rags like The Sun (known throughout the UK as The Scum - for those not from the UK). So no, the police have not confirmed this as the motive although it is certainly a strong possibility, hence their appeals for information.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
154
Guests online
4,252
Total visitors
4,406

Forum statistics

Threads
592,616
Messages
17,971,896
Members
228,844
Latest member
SoCal Greg
Back
Top