GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

[goldielox]

So can we assume they already had the car ? was it one of CJ's or had they got permission to move EW's ? Google maps from 2010 appears to show a light blue Fiat Panda 4 X 4 on the drive.

Perhaps he had a car but by the time of his arrest he no longer had it...he'd perhaps reported it stolen, hid it away, sold it..whatever. If you had killed someone and had them in the car would you really want to hang on to that car? I'd be desperate to get rid of it or distance myself from it, me. Would you trust that just a good vacuuming or valeting would dispense with any signs? I wouldn't, and the fact that they had their cars valeted soon afterwards has been used against quite a few convicted murderers.

VT was living at Aberdeen Road, he'd also been up to Cambridge afterwards. I don't think we know yet for certain whether he flew, got the train or even took a car to Holland do we? Compared to press reports about CS there's been a marked lack of gossiping neighbours where VT is concerned. If, before his arrest, he did happen to dispose of his car, his close family and friends are hardly going to announce that fact are they...because he was away from Canynge Road over Christmas neighbours there wouldn't know if he still had a car or he didn't.

He could even have hired a car for a day that weekend to move the body. The police could possibly have taken a car he'd driven over that period. If they didn't take it from Canynge or Aberdeen Road the press wouldn't be around to know or to witness it actually being taken then would they? If they later found out and he'd been charged by then they wouldn't be able to report it by that point.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Actually I think it was this post that started the de-icing rumour

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #7

bit of a mix up...
my son..living just 2 doors away from no42....rang me to say that on the morning of vt arrest in aberdeen road, he...son... was de-icing his car in canynge rd when he reported many police watching him de-ice the car....in canynge rd...
definitely not at 2am ...more like 8am when he had to get car to garage for repair.

rumours, rumours...

 

[veggiefan]

So, is it true one in eight people charged with murder are released on bail?

I believe that's about the proportion.

Are people generally happy with this?

Well, it's up to the courts to decide who should be released on bail. But don't forget that some people charged with murder are later found to be innocent. And some who are charged with the offence may turn out to have had a reason that suggests there is no danger to the public at large (e.g. it may have been self-defence or it may have been a mercy killing).

 

[goldielox]

In trying to envision what might have happened that night to better understand what evidence there might be, and without trying to read too much into what we know, it seems that Joanna was attacked in her flat, and that there was a scream heard at around the same time. We know that she was removed from the flat at some point. We also have the clue about her being transported in some sort of bag, like maybe a bike bag for travel. I am wondering if there was some evidence of Joanna in a travel bag belonging to VT, or if there is actual evidence of her in VT's flat.

We know that VT is a bright guy, but it is usually bright people that are sometimes really dumb about obvious things. It's quite possible that VT never expected the entire building to be turned upside down because of the disappearance, and it could be the fact that Joanna was taken away in a travel bag that caused police to first look at travel bags belonging to residents of the building. Really bright people sometimes under-estimate others, and VT could have made a mistake because he made the wrong assumptions.

I think it's quite possible that VT had a bike travel bag, and that it would easily contain a small person. I also think that VT would not part with his bike bag, even if he used it in a crime.

A large holdall, skis bag, surf/snowboard bag... who'd really bat an eye if they saw him with any one of those? Especially when he seems to have done a lot of travelling so may have been seen coming and going with bags frequently. If he was spotted at all, I doubt many would pay much notice...not unless he went by with a suspicious looking rolled up carpet or with a body slung over his shoulder.

 

[Cherwell]

Google maps from 2010 appears to show a light blue Fiat Panda 4 X 4 on the drive.

People are forgetting that the house in Aberdeen Road is divided into 3 flats, of which I understand it was the top floor flat which was of interest. So there is only at best a one-in-three chance that the car pictured on Google was associated with the top flat. I'd think it most likely that the parking space goes with the ground floor flat.

That car could have have been sold months ago, could belong to someone who has moved, or even to a visitor.

 

[Robin Hood]

People are forgetting that the house in Aberdeen Road is divided into 3 flats, of which I understand it was the top floor flat which was of interest. So there is only at best a one-in-three chance that the car pictured on Google was associated with the top flat. I'd think it most likely that the parking space goes with the ground floor flat.

That car could have have been sold months ago, could belong to someone who has moved, or even to a visitor.

I was working on the fact of how many types and colours of cars are available in England and the fact in 2010 there was one on the drive of the Aberdeen rd address that was a fairly light colour and a possible 4x4 would be at least worth a mention.

 

[SilkySifaka]

At least one person that was arrested in connection with this murder was released on bail, and I get the impression that bail; sometimes with conditions, is a right ... since there is only suspicion, but the rights of the accused are that he or she is innocent pending trial.

He was granted police bail, because he was arrested but not charged with the crime.

In VT's case whole nother animal. He has been charged with murder

 

[Cherwell]

I was working on the fact of how many types and colours of cars are available in England and the fact in 2010 there was one on the drive of the Aberdeen rd address that was a fairly light colour and a possible 4x4 would be at least worth a mention.

But do we even know the pictures were taken in 2010? Streetview has 2010 on the shots of my house too, but they must have been taken before that because I can see a shed in the garden that we demolished in 2009

All things considered, I think it's highly unlikely that particular car has anything to do with the case. Just saying.

 

[naturally suspicious]

A large holdall, skis bag, surf/snowboard bag... who'd really bat an eye if they saw him with any one of those? Especially when he seems to have done a lot of travelling so may have been seen coming and going with bags frequently. If he was spotted at all, I doubt many would pay much notice...not unless he went by with a suspicious looking rolled up carpet or with a body slung over his shoulder.

also, probably very much a loner when travelling so he might not be noticed.

if someone is chatty/gregarious/attractive/nicely dressed then they are more likely to be remembered than someone who quietly slips in and out of the flat .

 

[whiterum]

People are forgetting that the house in Aberdeen Road is divided into 3 flats, of which I understand it was the top floor flat which was of interest. So there is only at best a one-in-three chance that the car pictured on Google was associated with the top flat. I'd think it most likely that the parking space goes with the ground floor flat.

That car could have have been sold months ago, could belong to someone who has moved, or even to a visitor.

Even with a one in three chance, the map shows a light coloured 4X4 was parked in the driveway of a block of three flats, one of which belongs to her.

 

[bees]

The thing about those ground floor flats is that you could move from there to the drive without passing through any shared areas or going around the front. If JY were killed in one of those flats, it wouldn't be difficult to transfer her into a car on the drive without being spotted.

On the subject of cars:

CJ's and PS's were taken away but no others from Canynge Rd. No car was taken away from Aberdeen Rd. This implies that VT doesn't have a car or it would have been taken the day he was arrested and the press would have spotted that for sure.

TM is likely to travel via car to her work 30 miles away in Malmesbury as it's hopeless from Bristol via public transport. She either does it in her own car or shares someone else's. If she does it in her own car, it probably would have been taken by the police on the day VT was arrested and there's no indication that's happened. In fact, she went to work that day (either in her own car or via a lift).

So it looks to me as though VT doesn't have a car and that if TM does have a car, its whereabouts are known from 17th Dec onwards and that doesn't include Canynge Rd.

All of the above begs the question: if VT did kill JY, how the hell did he move the body to Longwood Lane? The police must think it was in a borrowed car, which they have already taken for forensic tests.

Just thinking out loud here - what do you think?

 

[bees]

Even with a one in three chance, the map shows a light coloured 4X4 was parked in the driveway of a block of three flats, one of which belongs to her.

I'm still not convinced that's a 4x4 - need some car experts here!

Also, the car needs to look like a small 4x4 as that's what was described. Not sure that Fiat Panda on the drive would be described as a small 4x4 but haven't seen one close up so I could be wrong.

 

[whiterum]

I was working on the fact of how many types and colours of cars are available in England and the fact in 2010 there was one on the drive of the Aberdeen rd address that was a fairly light colour and a possible 4x4 would be at least worth a mention.

Exactly, since there is an association with that address and also a car type which has been mentioned in the investigation, known to be parked at that address, it is certainly worth more than a mention.

 

[goldielox]

I'm still not convinced that's a 4x4 - need some car experts here!

Also, the car needs to look like a small 4x4 as that's what was described. Not sure that Fiat Panda on the drive would be described as a small 4x4 but haven't seen one close up so I could be wrong.

I'll come at this from another angle. Assuming that Panda is a 4x4 -would the average person (persons) who happened to report a light coloured 4x4 in Longwood Lane report it still as a 4x4 if what they'd all seen was a Panda like that?

That Panda might look more 4x4 like in the flesh, but they're tiny aren't they Pandas? Regardless, if I personally saw a car like that Panda I really can't see me describing it later as a 4x4. With the luxury of knowing the make of the car and having as much time as we like to persuse photo's of the thing We can't even make our minds up on here as what that Panda is so I suspect if a light coloured 4x4 was fleetingly seen around by a few people in the area that it probably wasn't a Panda. I think it'll have been more likely to be more of a traditional type of 4x4 that everyone tends to know is a 4x4 on sight.

 

[Cherwell]

My thoughts exactly.

Having said that, it was only the car seen on the Friday night at the golf club that was described like that, wasn't it. We haven't been told details of any others that were seen.

 

[whiterum]

Just thinking out loud here - what do you think?

PS had his car returned.
Neighbours say VT always travelled by bicycle or train.

CJ arrested under suspicion of murder, two cars taken and remains on bail.
VT charged with murder.

Seems only two people are currently in the equation. Two cars that we know off belonging to a suspect, have been lifted for forensic tests.

I would guess one of CJ's cars is in question.

Or if EW's car was available to the alleged killer it could have been used, unknown to her.

 

[paul5464]

Quick question, and sorry if it's been covered before, but has anyone read any comment or even speculation about where TM was on the Friday night / the Saturday and Sunday until JY was reported missing?

 

[wfgodot]

Welcome to WebSleuths, paul5464.

 

[paul5464]

thank you for the welcome. I have been following the discussion over the last few days. Very interesting.

 

[naturally suspicious]

Quick question, and sorry if it's been covered before, but has anyone read any comment or even speculation about where TM was on the Friday night / the Saturday and Sunday until JY was reported missing?

she works for dyson electronics in malmesbury and it was believed that fri night was their xmas do...
not known whether or not she returned to bristol that night/drove own car or shared taxi..
it appears that vt alone on fri night/ same as jy...