GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #9

[wfgodot]

all looks double dutch to me :floorlaugh:

Elvis Costello both belabored and intensified that phrase in "New Amsterdam":

New Amsterdam it's become much too much
Till I have the possession of everything she touches
Till I step on the brakes to get out of her clutches
Till I speak double dutch to a real double duchess?

 

[Snoopster]

Might have been CJ with his hair loose in bad light!

tsk, tsk, tsk, ruined detroit!

 

[wfgodot]

tsk, tsk, tsk, ruined detroit!

Though I know I shouldn't be, I'm still chuckling periodically at that one from ruined detroit.

 

[Patticake]

Fighting back tears one Dutch pal said: “I know Vincent is innocent. The Pink Panther is a pussycat who couldn’t hurt a mouse. There is no way he could have done something as dreadful as this.”

I did wonder if that might have anything to do with cannabis being legal in Holland...

no offence to any dutch forumites :blushing:

We don't know about Mr. Tabak's guilt or innocence ... but I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read of friends of killers who swear that they "couldn't hurt a mouse".

 

[Verity]

She could've removed herself for a number of reasons. I am with you and I don't think we should read too much into it. But, if her reason for removing herself is because she is being hounded by the media or whoever, then surely you just wouldn't log in to your facebook right now. Surely showing a united front is more beneficial right now, if she is standing by him that is. Just had a quick look and it appears that she has completely removed herself from facebook. Probably all too much for her and understandable.

Most likely Daddy's advice to get rid of it, but it's a shame for her to isolate herself at a time when she needs supportive friends. I'm just wondering if mutual friends have been bothering her on FB, otherwise it seems a very radical step to delete the whole account at this time.

 

[Luna15]

We don't know about Mr. Tabak's guilt or innocence ... but I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read of friends of killers who swear that they "couldn't hurt a mouse".

You're intuitive Patticake.... what's your instinct on NUA?

Most likely Daddy's advice to get rid of it, but it's a shame for her to isolate herself at a time when she needs supportive friends. I'm just wondering if mutual friends have been bothering her on FB, otherwise it seems a very radical step to delete the whole account at this time.

She could just have "de-activate"d it temporarily.... mine is predominately deactivated, I just re-activate for specific purposes.

 

[jigzy]

I dont 'get' what the gf could have told the LE - my bf came home with a huge new bag and a pizza (?)
Did she see the reconstruction and it triggered a memory of something?
I hope the LE really have something solid to go on here but intuitively I'm not feeling it. The guy reminds me (facially) of RM in the McCann case - the press went overboard with the 'Johnny Foreigner' thing there and now the Mirror tells us of the 'lanky Dutchman'. What comes next?

jmo

 

[moshimoshi]

We don't know about Mr. Tabak's guilt or innocence ... but I wish I had a dollar for every time I've read of friends of killers who swear that they "couldn't hurt a mouse".

I think murder is a unique crime. It happens rarely, but isn't necessarily committed by unusual people. Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things, if you will.

The kind of clearly malevolent, forward-planning, just-got-to-do-it types come to us mainly from fiction imo.

NUA probably is 'a nice guy', and he could also be guilty.

 

[Luna15]

I think murder is a unique crime. It happens rarely, but isn't necessarily committed by unusual people. Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things, if you will.

The kind of clearly malevolent, forward-planning, just-got-to-do-it types come to us mainly from fiction imo.

NUA probably is 'a nice guy', and he could also be guilty.

reminded me of the case of Derrick Bird, a taxi driver, who went on a shooting rampage in West Cumbria..... I dont think they found anyone that had a bad word to say about him.

 

[enqueteur]

Most likely Daddy's advice to get rid of it.

I'm sure her father would not have let her talk to detectives without her own lawyer and he's likely found a great one for NUA too. Even the gutter press are having difficulty believing LE has the right guy. My tummy's doing flips.

 

[little_miss_smart]

I dont 'get' what the gf could have told the LE - my bf came home with a huge new bag and a pizza (?)
Did she see the reconstruction and it triggered a memory of something?
I hope the LE really have something solid to go on here but intuitively I'm not feeling it. The guy reminds me (facially) of RM in the McCann case - the press went overboard with the 'Johnny Foreigner' thing there and now the Mirror tells us of the 'lanky Dutchman'. What comes next?

jmo

If the GF is the one who tipped the police off, and it does look that way, I would guess she saw him acting differently since the murder of Joanna. Or she gave him a false alibi.

I don't think it's a coincidence how it all happened so quickly from the reconstruction and Joannas parents plea. We know they went off script. It's like they knew for a fact that someone was covering for the killer and they were directly appealing to that person(NUAs GF maybe). Also something in the Martin Brunt article indicated the parents weren't too happy with something and they did not see eye to eye with the police over everything that was going on. Maybe they were aware the police had their suspect - NUA, but wanted to watch him longer, the parents could have been feeling a bit impatient with it all. Just speculation on my part.

 

[asdf69]

I think murder is a unique crime. It happens rarely, but isn't necessarily committed by unusual people. Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things, if you will.

The kind of clearly malevolent, forward-planning, just-got-to-do-it types come to us mainly from fiction imo.

NUA probably is 'a nice guy', and he could also be guilty.

He most definitely could be a very nice guy,in fact i think a lot of people that have personally known a murderer would agree they are usually decent people ,i used to go roller-skating in my teens and hang out weekends etc with person that was later convicted of murder , he was a normal decent man seamed he would do anything for anyone.

 

[Snoopster]

Elvis Costello both belabored and intensified that phrase in "New Amsterdam":

New Amsterdam it's become much too much
Till I have the possession of everything she touches
Till I step on the brakes to get out of her clutches
Till I speak double dutch to a real double duchess?

OT...wfgodot, you constantly amaze me with your breadth of knowledge! And, thanks for being a constant, stabilizing presence on this forum thread, which could easily get quite lively and contentious.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Luna15]

I dont 'get' what the gf could have told the LE - my bf came home with a huge new bag and a pizza (?)
Did she see the reconstruction and it triggered a memory of something?
I hope the LE really have something solid to go on here but intuitively I'm not feeling it. The guy reminds me (facially) of RM in the McCann case - the press went overboard with the 'Johnny Foreigner' thing there and now the Mirror tells us of the 'lanky Dutchman'. What comes next?

jmo

I really thought that too jigzy, also the way the press are comparing Joanna and Tanja, the same way they did with Madeleine and Roberts daughter Sophia.

 

[jigzy]

.......... something in the Martin Brunt article indicated the parents weren't too happy with something and they did not see eye to eye with the police over everything that was going on. Maybe they were aware the police had their suspect - NUA, but wanted to watch him longer, the parents could have been feeling a bit impatient with it all. Just speculation on my part.

Maybe they were flabbergasted that his apartment wasn't more thoroughly pulled apart the first time. The tarpaulin suggests that the LE don't want us seeing what's coming out of there, unlike the previous display where forensic bags with clearly read labels were paraded out of Jy's place.
Also if a body was dragged along the rear path to a car in the carpark at the back of no.44, then should we not have seen/heard of forensics removing paving slabs/gravel or whatever from that path the first time round?

jmo

 

[Snoopster]

I wonder if the building behind #44 is occupied and has residents (assuming it is a residential building). If so, does it have a lot of windows facing the back of #44?

Is it possible that anyone could look into the bedroom window from behind?

Is it possible that JY felt some degree of privacy because there was no one that could look directly into the bedroom window of their flat? (unless a next door tenant got curious and saw a light on as he walked toward his door?)

 

[little_miss_smart]

My theory for what it's worth.

Joanna returned to her flat, took off her boots, her jacket and forget to pick up her post on the way in. So she goes back out to pick up her post. Bumps into NUA and they start chatting. He's a bit depressed because of the break up with his gf(as per some newspaper reports), it's Christmas time, no one wants to see someone upset at the best of times let alone that time of year, thoughts of being all alone etc so she tries to comfort him but he gets a bit fresh with her. She rejects him. Feeling rejected from gf and Joanna is too much for him, he snaps and kills her. Where the pizza comes into it I don't know. I think her sock got left behind in whatever he carried her body in.

 

[Patticake]

You're intuitive Patticake.... what's your instinct on NUA?

I'm not at all convinced that the NUA has anything to do with the murder.

And, somewhat oddly, I have refused to give up my reason for suspecting GR. My concerns remain.


And this case has been a real learning experience for me in UK criminal justice and how our two systems differ. I'm not in a position to judge and absolutely mean no offense but I have noted a couple of things:

I've noticed that in US high profile cases, LE gives periodic press conferences. Often, but not always they will reveal current findings and the press can often ask questions. We've seen few pressers in this case and LE remains tight lipped.

Additionally, "un-named sources" and the tabloids will purposely "leak" details which get bandied about eventually get asked about at the press conferences. It appears that the UK has a very low level of unscripted leaks which is commendable. But it adds to our dilemma of amateur sleuthing without clues and facts, no?

I think about CJ and his case against LE in a "wrongful arrest" [we still do not know if he is guilty or innocent]. And we now have possibly another ...

.

 

[jigzy]

I wonder if the building behind #44 is occupied and has residents (assuming it is a residential building). If so, does it have a lot of windows facing the back of #44?

Is it possible that anyone could look into the bedroom window from behind?

Is it possible that JY felt some degree of privacy because there was no one that could look directly into the bedroom window of their flat? (unless a next door tenant got curious and saw a light on as he walked toward his door?)

Just a wild guess but maybe Halls Of Residence - I think that some of the buildings at the rear are Clifton College buildings (at least if a sign on a gate the other side of the block is anything to go by). If Halls of Residence then students would be travelling home/gone home for Xmas. jmo

 

[Patticake]

I think murder is a unique crime. It happens rarely, but isn't necessarily committed by unusual people. Bad things happen to good people and good people do bad things, if you will.

The kind of clearly malevolent, forward-planning, just-got-to-do-it types come to us mainly from fiction imo.

NUA probably is 'a nice guy', and he could also be guilty.

I am absolutely in agreement.

Even if it had been GR I figured it was momentary excess pressure on the throat. I have no doubt that many murders are surprised that the person has died ... they are angry or trying to keep the other person quiet, the victim loses consciousness. And then they don't wake up.

I'm sure there is shock at learning you've just murdered someone.

.