GUILTY UK - Rebecca Watts, 16, Bristol, 19 Feb 2015 #6

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e-sherlockholmes said:
In terms of violent crime with these murderous couples, these people are individually psychopaths and or otherwise a little messed up to begin with already. You put them together as a couple. Maybe one of them has a motivation that drives them (e.g. might be a sexual fantasy or shared hatred of something). The other person may try to please their spouse that has that motive. Then the couple will both be capable of committing heinous acts of violence once they have arrived at this mutual understanding.



In response to this case, my theory is the male suspect has a sexual motivation (i.e. according to reports of their internet searches and the fact he first met the female suspect at a young age). The female suspect (and the male suspect) likely have a shared contempt and hatred for Becky (i.e. she is perceived to be a princess, disrespectful, etc). There is a mutual understanding. Together, these reasons drove the two to commit the crime they committed.
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Yes, thats what I was saying about SH and NM. NM was already a sick twisted individual and would likely have committed heinous crimes with or without SH, possibly not to this level though. Put him with someone already damaged, insecure and unstable, he could groom and nurture them and turn them into the monster he is, then the perfect storm is created. I dont believe SH would have become what she has, to the extent she has, without NM influence. Now though, she is equally as depraved and cold as he is.
 
jessie said:
I only know what I've read here and msm, but to me Becky seemed a pretty normal teenager. She had some problems with anorexia but managed to get through that. Had a boyfriend who was fond of her and doubtless other girlfriends. Argued with her dad - pretty normal, left clothes lying around - pretty normal.
Idk, but apart from Nm and SH practically living in her home, I haven't formed the opinion her home life was utterly miserable.
I trust very little of SH's interview comments about Becky and hopefully we will hear more and get a better picture as the trial goes on.
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I'm pretty sure it's not normal for a dad to write his teenage kid out of his will? (if true!)
 
eneri12 said:
I disagree. Nobody truly knows what goes on behind closed doors and let's not forget SH painted the picture she wanted to paint. RWs immediate family were clearly distraught at the time and they are victims in this too. Whether Retribution knows them or not, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. Her boyfriend stated she was happy there has been nothing from anyone else to say she didn't have a reasonably happy family life with DG and AG. Whether the house wasn't up to others standards or not does not mean she had an unhappy or crap life. Sorry for rambling but imo it's not her family that's on trial here. Just moo.
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Totally agree with you Eneri. We've only heard SHs version of what life was like for Becky.

Imo a family with step parents/siblings/unconventional set ups does not make it dysfunctional or unhappy.

I'm only referring to Retribution because of the relationship with the family - but even so the views of those people are just that views. My neighbours would probably think that my previous relationship set up was the picture perfect family relationship. On the outside it was. Behind closed doors he was a manipulative physically abusive man who ruled my house with a rod of iron.

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eneri12 said:
I disagree. Nobody truly knows what goes on behind closed doors and let's not forget SH painted the picture she wanted to paint. RWs immediate family were clearly distraught at the time and they are victims in this too. Whether Retribution knows them or not, nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. Her boyfriend stated she was happy there has been nothing from anyone else to say she didn't have a reasonably happy family life with DG and AG. Whether the house wasn't up to others standards or not does not mean she had an unhappy or crap life. Sorry for rambling but imo it's not her family that's on trial here. Just moo.
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But thats just it. Some people do know what goes on behind closed doors. And maybe Becky had a different side to her when she was with her Boyfriend and friends, this was a fairly new relationship with the boyfriend, maybe he wasnt aware of a lot of Beckys background. Or maybe she was just genuinely happy when with him?
You are right though, Beckys family are not on trial, which is why Im trying to be tactful here. And I dont know anyone that would wish this on them.
 
Retribution said:
But thats just it. Some people do know what goes on behind closed doors. And maybe Becky had a different side to her when she was with her Boyfriend and friends, this was a fairly new relationship with the boyfriend, maybe he wasnt aware of a lot of Beckys background. Or maybe she was just genuinely happy when with him?
You are right though, Beckys family are not on trial, which is why Im trying to be tactful here. And I dont know anyone that would wish this on them.
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None of us would wish it on anyone. I just fail to see the relevance of her home life and don't feel comfortable with the speculation. Her family could read this and I think they've been through enough tbh.
 
Retribution said:
Yes, thats what I was saying about SH and NM. NM was already a sick twisted individual and would likely have committed heinous crimes with or without SH, possibly not to this level though. Put him with someone already damaged, insecure and unstable, he could groom and nurture them and turn them into the monster he is, then the perfect storm is created. I dont believe SH would have become what she has, to the extent she has, without NM influence. Now though, she is equally as depraved and cold as he is.
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And my point is that, she is not free of responsibility. If she took part in any planning or execution of their murderous plan, then she is equally as responsible as he was, whether or not the sexual fantasy was his alone, or a shared interest (as prosecutors claim).

However, my own theory from profiling, and indeed the suspect's own testimony that was recently made public, is that she had a strong contempt for Becky that was harboring inside her for a long time. You can tell by the way she talks about Becky in the interviews. She, and the male suspect, may both have their reasons to show contempt for Becky. Probably through many years of private chit chat between the two, they probably reinforced each other's hatred of Becky. Its no different to school yard type behavior where bullies pick on people they don't like and talk behind people's backs. The female suspect is responsible for all of the hateful comments about Becky she may have said to the male suspect, and this ultimately developed into a hatred so strong that they were both willing to kidnap and murder Becky among their other motivations (i.e. sexual in nature). If that is the case, she is not "innocent". She is as guilty as the male suspect in that case.

You're right, if the female suspect had been with someone else, perhaps she would not have done what she did. Then again, maybe the male suspect wouldn't either. And how do you know she wouldn't have engaged in deplorable behavior of other sorts had she met somebody else? Maybe they will engage in other equally deplorable behavior in other situations. We simply wouldn't know. We are not pre-crime police. We can only judge actions that are already made. Fact of the matter is, those two are who they are and they did what they did (allegedly).

But, as I was pointing to earlier, its in the personalities of these people that makes them capable of these crimes. You can put another woman with the male suspect, and the woman probably would not have done anything like this female suspect and may even have reported him to the police. It takes the right personality and psychiatric traits to commit cold calculated violent murder. She and he apparently had the right formula (allegedly if prosecutors are right).
 
sar2them1984 said:
Great time line.

Few things I picked up:

1. That shower head is right down..they've bathed that child in there after everything they've done

2. Certain areas if Beckys home resemble the hoarding at NMS - wonder if the hoarding is a family trait?

3. The van used to transport Becky wasn't around for very long. I wonder if JI/KD really did just move the "packages" as they say, not realising

4. The text from SH to NM seems rather mocking.

5. Police wanted to search NMS property a whole 5 days before NMS fingerprint is found..so something tipped the police

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What text? #4
 
eneri12 said:
None of us would wish it on anyone. I just fail to see the relevance of her home life and don't feel comfortable with the speculation. Her family could read this and I think they've been through enough tbh.
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I do think its relevant to a certain extent, if it explains the background between Becky and Nathan, and if possibly this tragedy could have been avoided in some way, but actually, I agree with you that some things should not be put out here on an open forum...which is why Im trying to be careful. Its very hard to say something, without saying something..if you understand what I mean? So much is not being reported, about the actual details of the case too, not just about the family or Becky, and its frustrating to know something and read things people are saying, without wanting to speak out. Its human nature I guess.
I think I should just keep quiet and not respond to some posts that yank my chain a bit, its best to just wait and see what comes out in the trial, and hope that those who are guilty get the maximum sentence they can possibly get.
 
I daresay there's a lot not being reported and more will come out as the trial goes on. I hear what you're saying it is difficult to not contribute if you know or aware of something and we are all speculating about everything to an extent. It's a very emotive case I think I just feel very sorry for the family and think they'll be subject to lots of scrutiny and gossip.
 
eneri12 said:
I daresay there's a lot not being reported and more will come out as the trial goes on. I hear what you're saying it is difficult to not contribute if you know or aware of something and we are all speculating about everything to an extent. It's a very emotive case I think I just feel very sorry for the family and think they'll be subject to lots of scrutiny and gossip.
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I also think that whatever way Becky behaved, whether she was a spoiled brat or the most innocent person around, no matter whether she came from a "broken home" or a stable loving family. No matter what her home life was like whatsoever it does not give anyone the right to murder her and none of the above should be used as a scapegoat to try and justify those people's actions

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sar2them1984 said:
Can't remember verbatim - it's in the link but something along the lines of "when are you finishing work LOL"

It was sent mid afternoon which I thought was strange as he's a fast food delivery driver...

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The day after Becky's murder, NM called his employer saying he would be unable to work until after the weekend bc he had car problems.

The finishing "work" ["LOL"] Shauna is referring to is NM's purchase of the saw, gloves and other supplies & prob other odds & ends he needed to complete before returning home so they could begin working on their mutual project:


Prosecutor Mr Mousley said next day Matthews contacted his employers and said he would not be able to work until after the weekend because of problems with his car.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6585167


February 20: 12.20pm - Matthews buys two bottles of drain cleaner from the Rajani superstore in Bristol.

12.51pm - He purchases a MacAllister circular power saw, face masks, gloves and goggles from B&Q in Horfield, Bristol.

3.10pm - Hoare texts Matthews: 'What time do you finish work LOL? Hugs and kisses'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270610/Jurors-shown-bedroom-Becky-Watts-killed.html
 
Right now, I don't believe a word of anything Shauna says about Becky. Shauna's motivation at the time she was interviewed was to save her own skin and she's doing just that. She's painting a picture of Becky in a horrible fashion and I see her indirectly BLAMING BECKY for her own murder.

This is a woman that lives in a pigsty and thinks nothing of having her own child live in those conditions. This is a woman who ordered stun guns for her boyfriend, or maybe for her too. This is a woman trying to save her own skin at the expense of anyone and everyone else.

I think Becky was a normal teenager. I was like Becky. I fought horribly with my Father. OMG! Brutal. I didn't get along with my sister and would have thrown her to wolves if I could. She made my life miserable. I WAS A TEENAGER. Teenagers can be a real pain in the butt.

As for writing Becky out of his will, I can't believe that either. I actually find that laughable. Really? Come on. How many people start writing teenagers out of their wills because they had a row with them. Becky's father was inconsolable when she went missing. Whatever went on between them (normal family crap), doesn't mean he didn't love her.

As for her manipulative ways (so says Shauna), aren't we all manipulative? Don't we all try to get what we want? Shauna is manipulative to a fault. Just watch her in the interview.

I see pure jealousy and immaturity surrounding Shauna's stories about Becky. We all have moods and tantrums. So what? Teenage girls wear make up to attract the boys. We lose weight to attract attention. We all seek attention in one form or the other.

Shauna needs to grow up and give her head a shake. Shauna was jealous pure and simple. Nathan wanted Becky and I think he wanted her bad. Shauna knew it and played song because if she didn't ,she'd lose Nathan. But more than that, I think Shauna liked all of what was going on; whatever that may have been.

She is not to be believed. We know she was at the house when Becky was murdered. She's admitted that. We know she was there. She's desperately trying to find her way out a corner.

I wonder if Shauna will take the stand? It would be interesting to see if she's changed her mind and throws Nathan under the bus.

If we don't believe her side of the story, then we can't believe what she tells us about Becky. We can't because the same person is telling the stories only to benefit herself.

MOO!
 
sar2them1984 said:
I also think that whatever way Becky behaved, whether she was a spoiled brat or the most innocent person around, no matter whether she came from a "broken home" or a stable loving family. No matter what her home life was like whatsoever it does not give anyone the right to murder her and none of the above should be used as a scapegoat to try and justify those people's actions

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
As a divorced parent of 4 great, hardworking, kind, funny, loving, respectful children I have to say that I despise the term 'Broken home' and it's always used in opposition to 'stable loving home' ... it is possible to provide a stable loving home even if you're doing it alone!

ETA - I'm not mad AT you Sar2them just the term you used :)
 
Tealgrove said:
Right now, I don't believe a word of anything Shauna says about Becky. Shauna's motivation at the time she was interviewed was to save her own skin and she's doing just that. She's painting a picture of Becky in a horrible fashion and I see her indirectly BLAMING BECKY for her own murder.

This is a woman that lives in a pigsty and thinks nothing of having her own child live in those conditions. This is a woman who ordered stun guns for her boyfriend, or maybe for her too. This is a woman trying to save her own skin at the expense of anyone and everyone else.

I think Becky was a normal teenager. I was like Becky. I fought horribly with my Father. OMG! Brutal. I didn't get along with my sister and would have thrown her to wolves if I could. She made my life miserable. I WAS A TEENAGER. Teenagers can be a real pain in the butt.

As for writing Becky out of his will, I can't believe that either. I actually find that laughable. Really? Come on. How many people start writing teenagers out of their wills because they had a row with them. Becky's father was inconsolable when she went missing. Whatever went on between them (normal family crap), doesn't mean he didn't love her.

As for her manipulative ways (so says Shauna), aren't we all manipulative? Don't we all try to get what we want? Shauna is manipulative to a fault. Just watch her in the interview.

I see pure jealousy and immaturity surrounding Shauna's stories about Becky. We all have moods and tantrums. So what? Teenage girls wear make up to attract the boys. We lose weight to attract attention. We all seek attention in one form or the other.

Shauna needs to grow up and give her head a shake. Shauna was jealous pure and simple. Nathan wanted Becky and I think he wanted her bad. Shauna knew it and played song because if she didn't ,she'd lose Nathan. But more than that, I think Shauna liked all of what was going on; whatever that may have been.

She is not to be believed. We know she was at the house when Becky was murdered. She's admitted that. We know she was there. She's desperately trying to find her way out a corner.

I wonder if Shauna will take the stand? It would be interesting to see if she's changed her mind and throws Nathan under the bus.

If we don't believe her side of the story, then we can't believe what she tells us about Becky. We can't because the same person is telling the stories only to benefit herself.

MOO!
Click to expand...

SH will say ANYTHING to absolve herself of any wrong doing. And if that means painting Becky as a spoiled brat, then so be it, in her eyes. SH has lied, and lied. Shes a cold calculating b****.
BUT..some , if only a small part, of what she has said, is true. In most "lies" there is a grain of truth somewhere.
For the most part though, SH is just saving SHs arse.
On that note, Im going to try to keep quiet from now on,because its getting harder and harder not to say something I shouldn't until certain things are made more public.
 
epiphany said:
The day after Becky's murder, NM called his employer saying he would be unable to work until after the weekend bc he had car problems.

The finishing "work" ["LOL"] Shauna is referring to is NM's purchase of the saw, gloves and other supplies & prob other odds & ends he needed to complete before returning home so they could begin working on their mutual project:


Prosecutor Mr Mousley said next day Matthews contacted his employers and said he would not be able to work until after the weekend because of problems with his car.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/becky-watts-murder-trial-live-6585167


February 20: 12.20pm - Matthews buys two bottles of drain cleaner from the Rajani superstore in Bristol.

12.51pm - He purchases a MacAllister circular power saw, face masks, gloves and goggles from B&Q in Horfield, Bristol.

3.10pm - Hoare texts Matthews: 'What time do you finish work LOL? Hugs and kisses'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3270610/Jurors-shown-bedroom-Becky-Watts-killed.html
Click to expand...

The txt, just wow!
 
Hi folks, I've removed some off topic posts specifically about Karla Homolka. Though some may find it relevant this thread is still about the murder of Becky and the trial of her accused. Please stay focused on the discussion now that we are in the Trial phase.

Also, please remember to link when posting fact.

Thank you
 
I would really love to understand the dynamics between SH and NM.
 
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