UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #6

Please continue here.
 
Don’t know how deep Wyndley Pool is, only mentioned it because JC’s school backs onto it (or did back in the day).
According to CBD’s book “Prime Suspect” JC hates the school, saying he was abused while there.
Without any real way of confirming this I get the impression that JC would revel in the thought that the most famous missing person (SJL) was deposited in the effective back garden of his old school.
I accept that this is pure conjecture, however, he appears to have been setting the police on many wild goose chases over the years, and would take great pleasure in knowing just how close the had come to finding Suzy.
On paper the reservoir 20 miles away looks a far safer bet.
 
It appears to be 3.8m deep (12' 5"), but that's from this link which if I have understood it correctly is probably giving the figure for the area designated for swimming. This may not be the deepest part, as the pool overall is considerably larger than the area set aside for lane swimming. It could be 3.8m in the specified area and less or more than that elsewhere.

Has it ever dried up in a drought? If someone dropped a body over the parapet along the northern edge, and the water is shallowest there, then at some point in the last 36 years you'd think the water would have retreated from the edges and exposed stuff dropped in. A lot of bikes and shopping trolleys surface in the Regent Canal in London whenever it stops raining.
 
It appears to be 3.8m deep (12' 5"), but that's from this link which if I have understood it correctly is probably giving the figure for the area designated for swimming. This may not be the deepest part, as the pool overall is considerably larger than the area set aside for lane swimming. It could be 3.8m in the specified area and less or more than that elsewhere.

Has it ever dried up in a drought? If someone dropped a body over the parapet along the northern edge, and the water is shallowest there, then at some point in the last 36 years you'd think the water would have retreated from the edges and exposed stuff dropped in. A lot of bikes and shopping trolleys surface in the Regent Canal in London whenever it stops raining.
Good points, I’ve emailed a local historian asking if it’s been drained at any time and what the depth is next to the Clifton Road access.
If it get a response I’ll post what he tells me.
 
One of the negotiators was away that week and was covered for by permanent secretary Stephanie Flowers. A temporary secretary covered for Stephanie Flowers. Does anyone know what became of the temporary secretary after SL's disappearance?
 
Good points, I’ve emailed a local historian asking if it’s been drained at any time and what the depth is next to the Clifton Road access.
If it get a response I’ll post what he tells me.
I’ve had a response from the park Rangers, they say that Wyndley Pool has (AFATK) has never been drained.
Levels only drop if they have an issue with the water control gates.
Some maintenance (no date as yet) is planned for later this year and that this will result in the level dropping by approximately 30 cm.
Given its depth this will not to reveal the bottom.
 
One of the negotiators was away that week and was covered for by permanent secretary Stephanie Flowers. A temporary secretary covered for Stephanie Flowers. Does anyone know what became of the temporary secretary after SL's disappearance?

If we can ascertain which Sturgis employee made the fake diary entry, we may be nearer to fully understanding how this crime was strategised.
MOO
 
If we can ascertain which Sturgis employee made the fake diary entry, we may be nearer to fully understanding how this crime was strategised.
MOO
I understand the thought process, however, it’s never been confirmed that SJL didn’t put the fake entry in her desk diary herself.
To confirm she didn’t you need the hand writing to be compared with a known sample of her writing.
This measure would answer the question and then you’d know if it was someone else.
It’s also possible that Suzy asked a colleague to put that Kipper appointment in for her as she left. Again, no one has ever said they did this AFAIK.
 
Can't remember where I read this but apparently SL had a friend who became very famous. Anyone know who it was?
 
JC is weird but.... ex Met detective, is it David V? Ripped apart the Met's investigation and concluded JC had nothing to do with it. I think he may be on to something with the pub/diary.
 
JC is weird but.... ex Met detective, is it David V? Ripped apart the Met's investigation and concluded JC had nothing to do with it. I think he may be on to something with the pub/diary.

Hi sl77!

We've been through pretty much every permutation of whether SJL went to the pub - perhaps if you have the time, you could read up on the threads of the last couple of years?
 
For all of you who are questioning the search the canal in Brentford link you may not have seen this article. I know there has been much discussion and like the POW cellar (which has already been searched too) here is notification that this line of enquiry has also been closed.

Police Dismiss Brentford Link in Suzy Lamplugh Case
Canal where man had been seen disposing of bag had already been searched
Suzy Lamplugh

Suzy Lamplugh

Detectives investigating the disappearance and murder of Suzi Lamplugh in 1986 have dismissed a link to the Brentford area.
In August 2019 the Specialist Casework Team working on the case received a report from a witness, a lorry driver, who said he saw the prime suspect in the investigation, John Cannan, throwing a suitcase into the Grand Union Canal in Brentford three days after the estate agent vanished. Cannan was reportedly seen wheeling a trolley and then running away when it had been deposited in the water.
This was treated as a new line of enquiry, but it has been found that the part of the canal mentioned by the witness and the surrounding canal stretches had been extensively searched by the Met’s Marine Support Unit and London Fire Brigade Search Unit in September 2014. This search was conducted following an unrelated homicide investigation and no items were recovered which were connected to the Suzy Lamplugh investigation and the line of enquiry was closed.
On July 28 1986 Ms Lamplugh left her estate agency office in Fulham, at 12.40pm to meet a client called Mr Kipper. At 10pm, her white Ford Fiesta is discovered in Stevenage Road, Fulham.
Suzy is presumed dead, and is believed to have been abducted and murdered. Her body has never been found. More than 34 years have passed, and the police investigation into Suzy’s disappearance is still active with detectives from the Met’s Specialist Casework Team, part of Central Specialist Crime, continuing to pursue leads.
Cannan was jailed for 35 years in 1989 for the rape and murder of 29-year-old Shirley Banks in Bristol. 66-year-old Cannan is currently serving three life sentences at Full Sutton Prison but has never been charged in connection with Ms Lamplugh's murder.
A man was arrested in December 2000 and questioned, and a file was later submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service. However, it was decided that there was insufficient evidence to support a prosecution.
Detective Chief Inspector Rebecca Reeves, the senior investigating officer, said: “We would urge anyone who believes they might know something about what happened to Suzy all those years ago to come forward. Whether you saw something that you thought was unconnected at the time, or you felt under pressure to protect someone you knew – it is not too late.
“The passage of time has not weakened our determination to seek justice and get the answers that the Lamplugh family continue to wait for. They have always been supportive of our efforts to make progress in the investigation, and they have shown remarkable strength despite the immense sadness they have endured over the years.”
Click here if you have any information or images which may assist the investigation.


The link is below if you wish to view the original link

 
For all of you who are questioning the search the canal in Brentford link you may not have seen this article. I know there has been much discussion and like the POW cellar (which has already been searched too) here is notification that this line of enquiry has also been closed.

Police Dismiss Brentford Link in Suzy Lamplugh Case
Canal where man had been seen disposing of bag had already been searched
Suzy Lamplugh

Suzy Lamplugh


Detectives investigating the disappearance and murder of Suzi Lamplugh in 1986 have dismissed a link to the Brentford area.
In August 2019 the Specialist Casework Team working on the case received a report from a witness, a lorry driver, who said he saw the prime suspect in the investigation, John Cannan, throwing a suitcase into the Grand Union Canal in Brentford three days after the estate agent vanished. Cannan was reportedly seen wheeling a trolley and then running away when it had been deposited in the water.
This was treated as a new line of enquiry, but it has been found that the part of the canal mentioned by the witness and the surrounding canal stretches had been extensively searched by the Met’s Marine Support Unit and London Fire Brigade Search Unit in September 2014. This search was conducted following an unrelated homicide investigation and no items were recovered which were connected to the Suzy Lamplugh investigation and the line of enquiry was closed.
On July 28 1986 Ms Lamplugh left her estate agency office in Fulham, at 12.40pm to meet a client called Mr Kipper. At 10pm, her white Ford Fiesta is discovered in Stevenage Road, Fulham.
Suzy is presumed dead, and is believed to have been abducted and murdered. Her body has never been found. More than 34 years have passed, and the police investigation into Suzy’s disappearance is still active with detectives from the Met’s Specialist Casework Team, part of Central Specialist Crime, continuing to pursue leads.
Cannan was jailed for 35 years in 1989 for the rape and murder of 29-year-old Shirley Banks in Bristol. 66-year-old Cannan is currently serving three life sentences at Full Sutton Prison but has never been charged in connection with Ms Lamplugh's murder.
A man was arrested in December 2000 and questioned, and a file was later submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service. However, it was decided that there was insufficient evidence to support a prosecution.
Detective Chief Inspector Rebecca Reeves, the senior investigating officer, said: “We would urge anyone who believes they might know something about what happened to Suzy all those years ago to come forward. Whether you saw something that you thought was unconnected at the time, or you felt under pressure to protect someone you knew – it is not too late.
“The passage of time has not weakened our determination to seek justice and get the answers that the Lamplugh family continue to wait for. They have always been supportive of our efforts to make progress in the investigation, and they have shown remarkable strength despite the immense sadness they have endured over the years.”
Click here if you have any information or images which may assist the investigation.


The link is below if you wish to view the original link

Interesting post, a lot of time has elapsed between the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh and the extensive search carried out in 2014.
The canal & river trust confirmed that the canal (back then) was dredged approximately every 5 years. Also that (again back then) the deposits were dumped at a convenient site along the side of the canal.
Two questions spring to mind immediately:
1. Did the police check the dates when dredging took place?
2. Has the rate of decay (both human remains & the suitcase) been taken into account.
On the second subject, the PoW pub, according to the staff the police took a cursory look, no detailed examination actually took place.
Both the canal & the PoW pub were put forward by former Met Police officers.
 
Interesting post, a lot of time has elapsed between the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh and the extensive search carried out in 2014.
The canal & river trust confirmed that the canal (back then) was dredged approximately every 5 years. Also that (again back then) the deposits were dumped at a convenient site along the side of the canal.
Two questions spring to mind immediately:
1. Did the police check the dates when dredging took place?
2. Has the rate of decay (both human remains & the suitcase) been taken into account.
On the second subject, the PoW pub, according to the staff the police took a cursory look, no detailed examination actually took place.
Both the canal & the PoW pub were put forward by former Met Police officers.
and both have been searched and she is not there.
 
Google Dr Pam and you’ll very likely find her and maybe a few surprises.
I've done that and her surname begins with S? I'm not really finding any surprises though?

You can't be sued for claiming somebody knew someone, so are you able to elaborate?

My understanding was her friend went on to become a very well-known celebrity. I think I heard this in the Murder Academy video on Youtube, but that's from memory.
 
Interesting post, a lot of time has elapsed between the disappearance of Suzy Lamplugh and the extensive search carried out in 2014.
The canal & river trust confirmed that the canal (back then) was dredged approximately every 5 years. Also that (again back then) the deposits were dumped at a convenient site along the side of the canal.
Two questions spring to mind immediately:
1. Did the police check the dates when dredging took place?
2. Has the rate of decay (both human remains & the suitcase) been taken into account.
On the second subject, the PoW pub, according to the staff the police took a cursory look, no detailed examination actually took place.
Both the canal & the PoW pub were put forward by former Met Police officers.
I would be interested to know what source you have for the staff, did any of them speak to you are do you have some published quote for this? I spoke to the person who was there when DV searched the POW and he told me that the police definitely searched the cellar a while after DV had spoken to the police. The question is did they tell DV they did this or did they not bother to tell him? some months after his book came out he was saying on a YouTube broadcast that he was still wanting them to look there but at the time of the YouTube show they already had. The question is did he know that or not? The other fact I find interesting is that JD wanted the canal searched DV wanted the POW cellar searched and both have been done but that does not seem to be enough to satisfy people or have I got that wrong? Both sites are extremely unlikely in my view. lets play devils advocate for a second IF she was deposited at either site and then moved how practical could that have been? neither the acting landlord KH or JC knew London well. I think if SL had been dumped at the canal her body would have surfaced (imo)

The acting landlord was married and had staff working there even if we take the brilliant research that DV did (yes it was brilliant research despite my misgivings about other things) who knew that a stock check had taken place or that the regular landlord was away? nobody until DV found that out so credit where credit is due. But IF SL had met her fate at the POW that raises some very important points that are hard to theorise away.

What did he do with the body in broad daylight?
He was married how did his wife not know about it?
How did he move or conceal the body whilst running a pub as he was in charge temporarily.
he can't have left the body there, in July it would been obvious and smelt terrible

If she did go to the POW and not to either Stevenage Road or Shorrolds Road and met her fate there we must by logic dismiss all the alleged sightings at Stevenage Road, Shorrolds Road and driving down the Fulham palace road seen by Barbara Whitfield at 2.45pm. If her car was driven there by the perp/perps we must dismiss Wendy Jones who saw the car in Stevenage Road at about 12.40pm and it was still there later when she came home later that afternoon and was seen by a taxi driver at 2pm and again by Leo Mahon when he came home so about 5.15 - 5.30pm. If Wendy Jones was wrong (and i think she was 100% spot on about seeing the white fiesta at 12.40-45pm) then there is no way SL went to the POW to meet her fate and then for her car to then be 1.4 miles away taken there by KH the timings do not fit and are in fact impossible. How could SL leave the office at say 12.30pm get to the POW by 12.45pm and then for Wendy Jones to see her car before leaving for the bank with her friend at 12.45pm Its impossible. What are the chances of ALL of these sighting being bogus? I would suggest its VERY unlikely that all of them can be disregarded. The question is can we prove which ones did happen and which ones did not as they cannot all be true can they?

Re the canal

The canal was 4 feet deep so body being concealed unlikely.
Dredged regularly still there post 1986? very unlikely I think.

I'm no forensic scientist but surely a body would decompose and the gases in the gut etc (sorry to be so gross) would force the body to the surface i'm sure I have read other cases where this has happened.

In my opinion its extremely unlikely that SL was deposited at either site.

For what it's worth i think a lot of what DV found out is true, helpful and fills in many of the gaps in what really happened, my issue with his book is that he is obviously thinking SL met her fate at the POW either by accident or some unforeseen altercation. The issue I have is that having suggested that scenario he seems to be trying to fit his theory to fit that and i simply do not think the facts support it. If there were no sightings and her car randomly turned up at Stevenage Road later that afternoon I would think he is bang on but there are far too many other things that need explaining away for that to be in play.
 
If we can ascertain which Sturgis employee made the fake diary entry, we may be nearer to fully understanding how this crime was strategised.
MOO
Peter Johnstone (in charge of the initial investigation) said that they checked the diary entry against Suzy's regular handwriting and it matched so they were convinced she put the entry in herself. For years people assumed that Mr Kipper was a genuine appointment but I think she put it in to make sure she had a legit reason to leave the office in case the big bosses came back from their lunch at Crocodile tears a few doors away. She was the only negotiator in the office and could not leave without a genuine reason and I think she planned to be somewhere and made it possible by placing the entry in the diary. I do not think Mr Kipper exists, no pun intended its a red herring and the single most unhelpful thing about the case and ironically the only thing people seem to remember about it when you mention the name SL.
 
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Peter Johnstone (in charge of the initial investigation) said that they checked the diary entry against Suzy's regular handwriting and it matched so they were convinced she put the entry in herself. For years people assumed that Mr Kipper was a genuine appointment but I think she put it in to make sure she had a legit reason to leave the office in case the big bosses came back from their lunch at Crocodile tears a few doors away. She was the only negotiator in the office and could not leave without a genuine reason and I think she planned to be somewhere and made it possible by placing the entry in the diary. I do not think Mr Kipper exists, no pun intended its a red herring and the single most unhelpful thing about the case and ironically the only thing people seem to remember about it when you mention the name SL.
That’s a helpful response, DV outlined the same in his book, I can’t recall AS clarifying this in his book.
DV gave a reasonable explanation as to why SJL used this name and it makes sense. One of the Herring brothers lived at 55 Shorrolds Road and had recently moved from Wardo Ave.
DV also interviewed Wendy Jones, he made her out to be an unreliable witness. I understand why, it just didn’t fit with his narrative.
DV didn’t interview Barbara Whitfield, again I think he’d made his mind up and probably saw her as irrelevant.
That IMO is an error, BW is the only witness that actually knew SJL, and was part of the “Putney Set” as SJL’s mother called them.
She (again IMO) places SJL travelling along the Fulham Palace Road at 2.45pm and I feel she was right.
There are many explanations on the internet as to what happens after death, as you have pointed out the process is gross and effectively starts the minute death occurs.
The area around Gallows Bridge is (according to the Canal & River Trust) part of the river Brent, and is far deeper that a normal canal.
Depending on what material is used (in the suitcase) and any weight added it may not surface.
One thing is certain and that is we’re very unlikely to find SJL.
Having considered all that we do know I feel the former Met officer Jim D is right, but will never be able to prove it
 

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