Undoing

[Solace]

That is when the person who has murdered the victim in a possible rage realizes what they have done and tries to undo, by wiping down the victim. This is explained more by John Douglas and the link follows: I just happen to believe this is why JonBenet was wiped down. I know there was a lot of discussion here about the wiping down of JonBenet, but little was attributed to the "undoing". Here is a link for anyone's info.

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com...les/030211.php

When a parent kills a child

Or it could be that a close relationship existed between the killer and the victim. Let's say a parent kills a child and then buries the body. You may find that the child was carefully wrapped or the face covered to keep dirt from getting in the mouth. In essence, someone is caring for the child after death.

There's a word we use: "undoing." That's when someone tries to somehow lessen the damage after committing the crime, maybe by cleansing and bandaging the wounds. The killer may try softening the appearance of the crime by making the body's position restful and clasping the hands, almost like the victim is laid out. It's a way of symbolically erasing or reversing the crime, and it suggests remorse. Doing this gives the subject away. It's a personal crime -- strangers wouldn't likely do this.

 

[coloradokares]

That is when the person who has murdered the victim in a possible rage realizes what they have done and tries to undo, by wiping down the victim. This is explained more by John Douglas and the link follows: I just happen to believe this is why JonBenet was wiped down. I know there was a lot of discussion here about the wiping down of JonBenet, but little was attributed to the "undoing". Here is a link for anyone's info.

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com...les/030211.php

When a parent kills a child

Or it could be that a close relationship existed between the killer and the victim. Let's say a parent kills a child and then buries the body. You may find that the child was carefully wrapped or the face covered to keep dirt from getting in the mouth. In essence, someone is caring for the child after death.

There's a word we use: "undoing." That's when someone tries to somehow lessen the damage after committing the crime, maybe by cleansing and bandaging the wounds. The killer may try softening the appearance of the crime by making the body's position restful and clasping the hands, almost like the victim is laid out. It's a way of symbolically erasing or reversing the crime, and it suggests remorse. Doing this gives the subject away. It's a personal crime -- strangers wouldn't likely do this.

The link is not working at least not on my computer. I totally agree and have heard of this before.

 

[Solace]

The link is not working at least not on my computer. I totally agree and have heard of this before.

Hi Colorado. Have a great weekend.

 

[coloradokares]

Hi Colorado. Have a great weekend.

You too!!

 

[DeeDee249]

And of course, JR had that book "Mindhunter" on his nightstand, didn't he? It was like a "how to" manual for killing and covering up a murder.

 

[Ames]

The link is not working at least not on my computer. I totally agree and have heard of this before.

I can't get it to work either....

 

[Albert18]

What you are saying Solace is that the crux of this crime is simplicity. It's straightforward. The evidence matches and fits with what was believed to have happened.

 

[DeeDee249]

Things are usually what they seem to be.

 

[BBB167893]

That's what the CASKU folks said, too.

 

[4sure]

Things are usually what they seem to be.

That is one scary sumation.

 

[Ames]

Things are usually what they seem to be.

Yep...and even though he was found innocent...Things were what they seemed to be, in the Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman murders...OJ did it...and even though nobody actually SAW Scott Peterson taking Lacy's body out in the boat...he sits on death row, because things were what they seemed to be...and the list goes on.

 

[Solace]

What you are saying Solace is that the crux of this crime is simplicity. It's straightforward. The evidence matches and fits with what was believed to have happened.

Also, Douglas says in his book that if the parent is the killer, they will lead the police to the body.

Douglas says one of the reasons he did not think John did it is because he FOUND the body. His book was next to John's bed, I believe. So, he is going to find the body, why not?

 

[Solace]

What you are saying Solace is that the crux of this crime is simplicity. It's straightforward. The evidence matches and fits with what was believed to have happened.

Yes Albert I am.

 

[BBB167893]

It's scary because it's true, 4sure.

 

[JMO8778]

Also, Douglas says in his book that if the parent is the killer, they will lead the police to the body.

Douglas says one of the reasons he did not think John did it is because he FOUND the body. His book was next to John's bed, I believe. So, he is going to find the body, why not?

yes,JR led police to her,in all manner of speaking ..he 'found' the body...no difference.

 

[rashomon]

What you are saying Solace is that the crux of this crime is simplicity. It's straightforward. The evidence matches and fits with what was believed to have happened.

The only thing which imo complicates matters is the signs of chronic sexual abuse on JonBenet. If it weren't for that, it would basically be a simple and straightforward case: a parent (Patsy imo) snapped and lost it, inflicted a lethal head injury and then clumsily tried to cover it up by staging both a sex crime and a 'kidnapping for ransom' scenario.
But if it is true that JB had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, who was her abuser? John?
If yes, how does the chronic sexual abuse mesh with the staged scene? I just can't believe Patsy would have covered up for John if he had not only molested, but also killed her daughter to silence her as a witness. But the forensic evidence (fibers from her jacket found in incriminating locations, and her in all probability having written the ransom note) implicates Patsy as the main stager of the scene.

I'd be interested in other RDIs' opinion on this, for I'm going back and forth on the issue of chronic sexual abuse.

1) Do you believe JonBenet had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse?

2) If yes, who do you think was her sexual abuser?
2' ) If it wasn't Patsy, do you think she knew who was JonBenet's sexual abuser?
2'') How would you put it all together in a time line of events on that fatal night?

3) If not, how would you interpret what Dr. McCann said about this issue in the Bonita papers?

 

[Ames]

yes,JR led police to her,in all manner of speaking ..he 'found' the body...no difference.

Exactly...John "found" her....therefore leading police to her. Someone had to "find" her...it didn't look like the police were going to, heck...she would probably STILL be in that WC if John hadn't of "found" her when he did.

 

[Ames]

The only thing which imo complicates matters is the signs of chronic sexual abuse on JonBenet. If it weren't for that, it would basically be a simple and straightforward case: a parent (Patsy imo) snapped and lost it, inflicted a lethal head injury and then clumsily tried to cover it up by staging both a sex crime and a 'kidnapping for ransom' scenario.
But if it is true that JB had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, who was her abuser? John?
If yes, how does the chronic sexual abuse mesh with the staged scene? I just can't believe Patsy would have covered up for John if he had not only molested, but also killed her daughter to silence her as a witness. But the forensic evidence (fibers from her jacket found in incriminating locations, and her in all probability having written the ransom note) implicates Patsy as the main stager of the scene.

I'd be interested in other RDIs' opinion on this, for I'm going back and forth on the issue of chronic sexual abuse.

1) Do you believe JonBenet had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse?

2) If yes, who do you think was her sexual abuser?
2' ) If it wasn't Patsy, do you think she knew who was JonBenet's sexual abuser?
2'') How would you put it all together in a time line of events on that fatal night?

3) If not, how would you interpret what Dr. McCann said about this issue in the Bonita papers?

Yes...ME TOO! Frankly...I am straddling the fence on this one...and its getting quite painful. I am hoping someone can help me down off of it. LOL

 

[JMO8778]

1) Do you believe JonBenet had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse? yes

2) If yes, who do you think was her sexual abuser? JR,and possibly Patsy's father and or maybe JAR as well.
2' ) If it wasn't Patsy, do you think she knew who was JonBenet's sexual abuser? yes
2'') How would you put it all together in a time line of events on that fatal night?
not sure.depends on which one of them did it...I still leave that one open..but I think they both may have participated in her murder,and both, as far as staging goes ...yes,they both did that,and perhaps one inflicted the head injury,and the other strangled her.
3) If not, how would you interpret what Dr. McCann said about this issue in the Bonita papers?
sry,I don't know what he said.

 

[Solace]

The only thing which imo complicates matters is the signs of chronic sexual abuse on JonBenet. If it weren't for that, it would basically be a simple and straightforward case: a parent (Patsy imo) snapped and lost it, inflicted a lethal head injury and then clumsily tried to cover it up by staging both a sex crime and a 'kidnapping for ransom' scenario.
But if it is true that JB had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse, who was her abuser? John?
If yes, how does the chronic sexual abuse mesh with the staged scene? I just can't believe Patsy would have covered up for John if he had not only molested, but also killed her daughter to silence her as a witness. But the forensic evidence (fibers from her jacket found in incriminating locations, and her in all probability having written the ransom note) implicates Patsy as the main stager of the scene.

I'd be interested in other RDIs' opinion on this, for I'm going back and forth on the issue of chronic sexual abuse.

1) Do you believe JonBenet had been the victim of chronic sexual abuse?

2) If yes, who do you think was her sexual abuser?
2' ) If it wasn't Patsy, do you think she knew who was JonBenet's sexual abuser?
2'') How would you put it all together in a time line of events on that fatal night?

3) If not, how would you interpret what Dr. McCann said about this issue in the Bonita papers?

Hi Rash,

You are 1000% right. If not for the sexual assault, this would be cut and dry. But she does have what appears is a staged assault and I believe it is staged. As far as prior sexual abuse, I just don't think it happened. I think there would be too many people to keep quiet if there were prior abuse. I do not think it would have started with JB. He had two other girls - one is dead, and that almost crushed him, and the other is adamant that nothing happened. I do not think he would welcome that kind of pain again. Colorado said it was well known in some Colorado circles that douching was happening. The maid said there was daily screaming from Patsy and JB coming from the bathroom, (an exaggeration, possibly yes, but I think it did happen). I realize that some might say douching does not cause this. But yet, she is a very small child. It could cause abrasions. If Patsy is doing this, she is doing it to humiliate her so that she will stop wetting her underwear. If she is doing it to humiliate her, she is not going to be nice about it and she could very well hurt her.


This is what I think.