GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #7

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In the previous thread we were talking about how he might have given her the meds. If some of them were in capsule form, couldn't he have opened them up and mixed meds, doubled them up etc.? That could explain why he counted them and then disposed of them. To someone watching him count it would have looked perfectly normal, but if you were counting yourself you might have noticed that some were light (empty). If doctored capsules were in evidence, it surely would have been noticed.
 
If I were a juror, I would want to examine the evidence on 2 things:

Question 1. Did Michelle die as a result of myocarditis as was given as cause of death by 1st ME?

Answer 1: No. Dr. Perper conclusively showed w/ empirical evidence that there was no myocarditis. He showed slides of heart tissue w/ the appropriate stains that showed no myocarditis. Additionally, he examined the blood evaluations 8 days prior to her death and there was no enzyme present that would indicate an infection or virus which could cause myocarditis. (That is why Defense did not put on a ME type expert. The evidence is irrefutable.)

Question 2: Did Martin MacNeill have time to have committed the murder?

Answer 2: Yes. A review of telephone records, time of photo session as well as a review of the map that showed distances between Health Center, home and school show that there was ample opportunity.

I would not need to examine the evidence on motive. It has clearly been established.
I would not need to examine the evidence that shows he requested and obtained a surplus of drugs that, in an overdosage, would render someone incapacitated.
I would not need to examine evidence that shows the cause of death was drowning. I think it has been well established.
I would not need to examine evidence showing he was obstructing justice - lying, obfuscating, destroying material evidence, etc. That has been well established.

The fact that cause of death is not empirically known would not trouble me unduly. The fact that the cause of death was NOT acute cardiac arrest due to myocarditis as was claimed in Opening Statements by Defense has been refuted and shown to be false. That allows consideration of drowning. Unintentional drowning? Who would get into the bathtub partially clothed and then fall asleep and drown? That is not reasonable.

What other things would you want to examine more carefully before rendering a verdict?
 
I think we are all a bit nervous about the outcome of this trial. Will another monster walk, or will justice be served for Michelle?
 
Whey, what a crowd today..........

good to see everyone

I hope marty is a lot nervous
 
Putting on my juror hat. After we all sat down and got going I'd do a chart --yes he did it, no, hasn't been proven. Off the top of my head the only item I would put under no is that the death wasn't definitely ruled a murder. Reasoning from that starting point. Was motive proven-yes. Did he have time enough to kill her-yes. He acted strangely all day why is that? Did he have the knowledge to kill her without leaving conclusive evidence? Yes, and not because an inmate said so. He was a DR. He had looked up whatever in the PDR just before her death.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt , let's say he didn't try to kill her, she ended up in the tub by accident. Did he do everything he could as a DR and a husband to try to save her? No. Best case he didn't try very hard. Worst case, he actively interfered with the attempts of others to help her.

His behavior was bizarre at the hospital, but that's not evidence. Right after returning home tho, for a fact he involved others in throwing away all her drugs, and in throwing many of her belongings into the garage. Whould an innocent person do this? Um...No. would a grieving husband do this? No. Would a DR trained in how to handle death scenes do this? No.

He's guilty of obstruction of justice. Would an innocent person deliberately try to conceal a crime scene? No.

I vote guilty on both charges. Throw the book at him, judge. Just IMO.
 
Italy said:
If I were a juror, I would want to examine the evidence on 2 things:

Question 1. Did Michelle die as a result of myocarditis as was given as cause of death by 1st ME?

Answer 1: No. Dr. Perper conclusively showed w/ empirical evidence that there was no myocarditis. He showed slides of heart tissue w/ the appropriate stains that showed no myocarditis. Additionally, he examined the blood evaluations 8 days prior to her death and there was no enzyme present that would indicate an infection or virus which could cause myocarditis. (That is why Defense did not put on a ME type expert. The evidence is irrefutable.)

Question 2: Did Martin MacNeill have time to have committed the murder?

Answer 2: Yes. A review of telephone records, time of photo session as well as a review of the map that showed distances between Health Center, home and school show that there was ample opportunity.

I would not need to examine the evidence on motive. It has clearly been established.
I would not need to examine the evidence that shows he requested and obtained a surplus of drugs that, in an overdosage, would render someone incapacitated.
I would not need to examine evidence that shows the cause of death was drowning. I think it has been well established.
I would not need to examine evidence showing he was obstructing justice - lying, obfuscating, destroying material evidence, etc. That has been well established.

The fact that cause of death is not empirically known would not trouble me unduly. The fact that the cause of death was NOT acute cardiac arrest due to myocarditis as was claimed in Opening Statements by Defense has been refuted and shown to be false. That allows consideration of drowning. Unintentional drowning? Who would get into the bathtub partially clothed and then fall asleep and drown? That is not reasonable.

What other things would you want to examine more carefully before rendering a verdict?
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I think you nailed it for me. Excellent post :seeya:
 
is the jury read the instructions first and then closing..was there a mention of how long they have for closing. Frankly don't know what defense will say but if its spencer you can count on it going a long time
 
Good Friday Morning, WS Friends! This will be an interesting day.
 
Good morning! Being the first broadcast trial from Utah, I am at sea as to what will happen. I don't know if the jury will be buying the defense alibi testimony or if they will see through it. Based on some of their questions, I'm thinking they "get it" but don't know if they will be up to deciding if the "Undetermined" COD is murder.

We need the strongest closing ever by the prosecution. They need to graphically nail down all the corners of MM's coffin, so to speak.
 
Is anyone else's seal flickering? I'm on Fox13 stream.
 
just think of all the people out there that Martin would like to kill...too many to even name...even Giselle last night mentioned. Wonder who is coaching her and made arrangements with HLN etc. she seemed coached and gotta wonder about the timing and why she did not show the night before as she was scheduled and what is she doing now in Vegas?
 
I've a question for those who have followed the trial every day like me:
Both Rachel and Alexis obviously hate their father and believe he killed their mother. They want him in prison. Do you think they both testified 100% truthfully on the stand?
 
:coffeecup: Good morning. Why haven't we started yet?
 
I watching a bit of Giselle's interview. I don't see why people see her at throwing the family under the bus, if she is being sincere then that's how her life was. Michele was a beautiful woman and by all appearances was a fantastic mother but I don;t think people need to believe she was a saint. Things do not appear to have been right in that family, for many reasons. I do not feel it is a huge jump to believe that, like many mothers, Michele may have not either believed her adopted daughter about improper touching or that she may have not wanted to know about it :( If this particular child was troubled that may have been an additional reason that Michele would question her statements. I'm keeping in mind that Michele forgave MMs forgery conviction early in their marriage and appeared to have accepted a number of mistreatments from him. We don;t know the dynamics that existed in that household. If Giselle is telling the truth how very sad that everyone may have left her side rather than believe Michele could possibly have done something not exactly "perfect." JMHO
 
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