GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #7

[minor4th]

I've a question for those who have followed the trial every day like me:
Both Rachel and Alexis obviously hate their father and believe he killed their mother. They want him in prison. Do you think they both testified 100% truthfully on the stand?

I do not think they testified 100% truthfully

 

[Italy]

I've a question for those who have followed the trial every day like me:
Both Rachel and Alexis obviously hate their father and believe he killed their mother. They want him in prison. Do you think they both testified 100% truthfully on the stand?

I can't think of anything that I would say was a lie from Rachel.

Alexis - I think she "shaded" the truth when she talked about obtaining medical information about her mother as obtained by her friend who is an MD. Whether she received the medical records or simply limited info, I don't know. That just seemed a little off to me. Other than that, I think she was quite candid and truthful.

 

[Harmony 2]

link

link

 

[wenwe4]

Just riding along today - I haven't been able to watch and keep up but wanted to join my WS family today. I was hoping to see Gypsy reading the love letters (was that yesterday or day before?)

 

[Softail]

:judge: giving jury instructions...

 

[Hope4More]

If I were a juror, I would want to examine the evidence on 2 things:

Question 1. Did Michelle die as a result of myocarditis as was given as cause of death by 1st ME?

Answer 1: No. Dr. Perper conclusively showed w/ empirical evidence that there was no myocarditis. He showed slides of heart tissue w/ the appropriate stains that showed no myocarditis. Additionally, he examined the blood evaluations 8 days prior to her death and there was no enzyme present that would indicate an infection or virus which could cause myocarditis. (That is why Defense did not put on a ME type expert. The evidence is irrefutable.)

Question 2: Did Martin MacNeill have time to have committed the murder?

Answer 2: Yes. A review of telephone records, time of photo session as well as a review of the map that showed distances between Health Center, home and school show that there was ample opportunity.

I would not need to examine the evidence on motive. It has clearly been established.
I would not need to examine the evidence that shows he requested and obtained a surplus of drugs that, in an overdosage, would render someone incapacitated.
I would not need to examine evidence that shows the cause of death was drowning. I think it has been well established.
I would not need to examine evidence showing he was obstructing justice - lying, obfuscating, destroying material evidence, etc. That has been well established.

The fact that cause of death is not empirically known would not trouble me unduly. The fact that the cause of death was NOT acute cardiac arrest due to myocarditis as was claimed in Opening Statements by Defense has been refuted and shown to be false. That allows consideration of drowning. Unintentional drowning? Who would get into the bathtub partially clothed and then fall asleep and drown? That is not reasonable.

What other things would you want to examine more carefully before rendering a verdict?

Playing devils advocate on accidental drowning.. juror hat on. Given a toxic mix of very powerful neurological drugs, it isnt impossible to imagine a scenario in which she became rapidly confused, disoriented, and as quickly, incapable of controlling her movements. An" accident " at that point is very possible.

 

[Softail]

Just riding along today - I haven't been able to watch and keep up but wanted to join my WS family today. I was hoping to see Gypsy reading the love letters (was that yesterday or day before?)

Good to see you! :seeya:

Yesterday she was reading the letters...

 

[Bravo]

I've a question for those who have followed the trial every day like me:
Both Rachel and Alexis obviously hate their father and believe he killed their mother. They want him in prison. Do you think they both testified 100% truthfully on the stand?

I do believe they did

 

[Leilei]

link

link

Tears in my eyes.

 

[scorpio1115]

MM actually looks a tad nervous today.

 

[geevee]

Hope JDP feels better soon, sounds like he's finishing the trial with a cold, I thought he seems ill-ish yesterday, maybe they'll give a quick verdict and he can get some rest (but I think the verdict will take a while, neither side did as good as they could and the jury may need a lot of talking).

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Good morning, everyone! Maybe it's just me, but this went by so fast. Of course, the main trials I've followed were FCA's and Arias, so compared to those two, this is a blink of an eye. Still hard to believe that we'll be on verdict watch soon.

Hoping that the State brings it all home with a very strong closing argument today. Their passion may not be as loud as some we've seen, but there is a quiet strength there, and faith in what they have brought to the stand.

I rather liked the steady, untheaterical way the State strung all the pieces of circumstantial evidence together. IMO that method suggests they believe the evidence speaks loud and clear. It was in such stark contrast to the defense.

 

[bsk]

A couple of protocol questions for minor4th on observations here...

Spencer seems to always rise when addressing the judge, even if it's just to say, "No Your Honor." Grunander does not. Is there a "normal" way?

Similarly, Spencer seems to always ask if it's okay to approach the witness, even if it's his own. The state seems to never ask about approaching their own witnesses. Is there a "normal" way?

Are some judges or some jurisdictions WAY more lenient about leading questions and foundation? For example, it seems here that the inmate questions went kind of like this (I'm overstating it here of course):
- We'll refer to you as inmate X. Is that okay?
- Where do you currently reside?
- Did you ever interact with the defendant?
- What did he tell you regarding killing his wife?

Do you see what I'm getting at? It seems like Spencer could have made him ask 10x as many questions to eventually get to the same ultimate question. Thanks.

 

[turaj]

I watching a bit of Giselle's interview. I don't see why people see her at throwing the family under the bus, if she is being sincere then that's how her life was. Michele was a beautiful woman and by all appearances was a fantastic mother but I don;t think people need to believe she was a saint. Things do not appear to have been right in that family, for many reasons. I do not feel it is a huge jump to believe that, like many mothers, Michele may have not either believed her adopted daughter about improper touching or that she may have not wanted to know about it If this particular child was troubled that may have been an additional reason that Michele would question her statements. I'm keeping in mind that Michele forgave MMs forgery conviction early in their marriage and appeared to have accepted a number of mistreatments from him. We don;t know the dynamics that existed in that household. If Giselle is telling the truth how very sad that everyone may have left her side rather than believe Michele could possibly have done something not exactly "perfect." JMHO

good points for sure and I would agree that the older bio daughters seem to have idolized their mother (no reason they should not) and anything that does not seem flattering to Michelle may have been strongly dismissed. That is alot of adoptions from a country where kids have undergone abuse etc. and often to not necessarily assimilate well especially older children being adopted.

 

[atthelake]

Whey, what a crowd today..........

good to see everyone

I hope marty is a lot nervous

Cannot do livestream again today so thank you and others in advance for blow by blow updates ! :grouphug:

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Softail]

Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow 2m
Rachel MacNeill just walked into the courtroom. @fox13now #MartinMacNeill #MacNeilltrial

Camera is on her.... she is crying.

 

[Softail]

Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow 1m
#MartinMacNeill sits with his fingers pressed to his chin, looking pensive. @fox13now #MacNeillTrial

 

[atthelake]

link

link

Wow !

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Hope4More]

Sending prayers for all Michelle's loved ones to feel surrounded by light and love today and beyond.

 

[Leilei]

I rather liked the steady, untheaterical way the State strung all the pieces of circumstantial evidence together. IMO that method suggests they believe the evidence speaks loud and clear. It was in such stark contrast to the defense.

Agreed And I know that the defense doesn't have to present any witnesses, but the fact that they presented a witness who testified to things that are totally irrelevant to this case says a lot to me. Plus, Spencer didn't even argue further this morning for the direct verdict thing (which I'm still a bit confused about... I know minor4th can ring in on this).

As sad and tragic as this case and trial have been, I really appreciate everyone who has posted here. There have been no huge arguments, no banned camp that I saw, just people watching, listening, learning, and getting along. Much love to my co-watchers :loveyou:

Plus, y'all made me smile and giggle a lot