UT UT - Salt Lake City, WhtMale 25-35, 1717UMUT, in canal, scars, clothes, watch, Mar'82
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Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182- Latest: girlhasnoname
carbuff
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Oh good idea!
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Unidentified Person / NamUs #UP6948
Male, White / Caucasian
Date of Discovery: March 13, 1982Male, White / Caucasian
Location of Discovery: Salt Lake City, Utah
Estimated Date of Death: 1981-1982
Estimated Age: 25-35 years old
Height: 5'3" to 5'5"
Weight: 140-150 lbs.
Hair Color: Black or dark brown with moderate graying on sides and back, medium length. Had a black mustache
Eye Color: Brown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: X-rays indicated lower back surgery. The incision was on the front part of his body just below the navel. Linear scar extending from right upper abdominal quadrant vertically past the umbilicus on the right to the suprapubic region. Faint linear scars on back of left wrist and forearm. Abundant dark brown/black hair over torso and back.
Identifiers
Dentals: Available. X-rays are available. Number nine chipped 12, 15, 21, MODFLCR /5 cavity present.
Fingerprints: Available in AFIS. RT: 11 pm 58 co 15; LT: 29 pm 01 10 09.
DNA: Not available.
Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: Levi jeans, a heavy coat with wool lining, a brown and white vertically striped shirt with a western design, jockey shorts, and long wool socks. No shoes were located.
Jewelry: Silver Seiko digital wrist watch. The watch was an hour ahead of the local time and was still working. The watch was made in 1980.
Additional Personal Items: Blue handkerchief.
Circumstances of Discovery
A couple canoeing in the area found the body of the decedent floating in the Surplus Canal near 1800 North 4900 West in Salt Lake city. The canal is located northwest of the Salt Lake International Airport. He had a wire around his neck but it did not appear to cause injury. He had been in the canal for several months.
Investigating Agency(s)
Agency Name: Utah State Medical Examiner's Office
Agency Contact Person: Cody Lougy
Agency Phone Number: 801-584-8410
Agency Case Number: 198200250
Information Source(s)
NamUs
The Deseret News Archive
The Doe Network
carbuff
Well-Known Member
Maps showing location body was found, according to his Namus listing (The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs))
This is where it is in relation to SLC airport: خرائط Google
And zoomed in so you can see the canal خرائط Google
Note that the verbal description of "northwest of the airport" doesn't match this location. That would be up here somewhere and a lot more isolated خرائط Google
Besides being very near the airport, it's in a large industrial area (looks like light manufacturing and distribution, mostly) and just off a major intersection. It's about 4 miles to the airport's main terminal (give or take) and 2-3 miles from the intersection of I-80 and I-215, which connects to I-15 and is one of the most major intersections in the west. You can get to anyplace in the Rockies via I-15 and I-80 runs from Sacrament0/San Francisco CA all the way across the country to the New York City area.
So he could be from anywhere. Even local.
This is where it is in relation to SLC airport: خرائط Google
And zoomed in so you can see the canal خرائط Google
Note that the verbal description of "northwest of the airport" doesn't match this location. That would be up here somewhere and a lot more isolated خرائط Google
Besides being very near the airport, it's in a large industrial area (looks like light manufacturing and distribution, mostly) and just off a major intersection. It's about 4 miles to the airport's main terminal (give or take) and 2-3 miles from the intersection of I-80 and I-215, which connects to I-15 and is one of the most major intersections in the west. You can get to anyplace in the Rockies via I-15 and I-80 runs from Sacrament0/San Francisco CA all the way across the country to the New York City area.
So he could be from anywhere. Even local.
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carbuff
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That's what it says. I guess it's probably trash from the canal or something?
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The location is curious. Both the mapped location and the one described. On one hand it would seem that he was dumped there by someone traveling one of the major thoroughfares you mentioned Carbuff. On the other hand, I wonder if they weren’t familiar with that area. With so many of those type businesses, vehicle traffic would be pretty sporadic. Unlike a residential area where people would be more likely to notice a strange vehicle or suspicious activity. I guess that doesn’t necessarily mean they were familiar with that area though.
The wire is strange too simply because it was mentioned. Aside from trash I can’t think of any reason why someone would have wire wrapped around their neck. But I wonder why it was listed when I’m sure, given the area, there had to be more trash on/around him.
A couple of things stood out to me...
- Is this a surplus canal or The Surplus Canal? (I’m not familiar with the area and Google maps doesn’t tell me lol)
- Is it normal for people to be canoeing here?
- What about the train tracks that run through the area? One of the locations looked to be within a stone’s throw from the tracks...
The wire is strange too simply because it was mentioned. Aside from trash I can’t think of any reason why someone would have wire wrapped around their neck. But I wonder why it was listed when I’m sure, given the area, there had to be more trash on/around him.
A couple of things stood out to me...
- Is this a surplus canal or The Surplus Canal? (I’m not familiar with the area and Google maps doesn’t tell me lol)
- Is it normal for people to be canoeing here?
- What about the train tracks that run through the area? One of the locations looked to be within a stone’s throw from the tracks...
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What about Donald Allen Warren? His disappearance is rather mysterious(er?). According to Charley Project, “Warren was last seen at a casino in California or Nevada sometime in 1980. His family later traced him to Pahrump, Nevada; he got a driver's license there. He has never been heard from again. Few details are available in his case.”
I looked up Pahrump, NV and it’s about 7 hours away but it’s almost a straight shot by way of I-15.
Also his teeth. I’ve been trying to learn the dental charting numbers, and if I’m understanding correctly, John Doe’s #9 tooth was chipped; which would be one of his front central incisors (middle two front teeth). Looking at Donald’s photo it appears as though he has a chipped tooth in that same location. Unless it’s a spot on the photograph.
His age and hair color are pretty different than though...
51 years old (UID: 25-35)
5’4-5’5” (UID: 5’3”-5’5”)
120-150 lbs (UID: 140-150)
brown hair/hazel eyes (UID: brown/black hair)
If y’all think it’s worth it, I’ve found a few message boards/forums that have family searching for Donald. Some I can’t link here, but this is one from Ancestry posted by someone claiming to be his son...
“looking for lost father donald allen warren bonn 1929 mich.lived in stocton,calif. around 1960/61. i am his son britt allen warren. born june 6 1960 in french camp.near stockton,calif.i was kid naped my my mother.[unwed]lyace sanders.anny help would be gratefull.i have been missing for 40 years.and counting“
(The date of this post is older than some on the other forums) Maybe one of them would be able to tell us if he had any surgeries?
I looked up Pahrump, NV and it’s about 7 hours away but it’s almost a straight shot by way of I-15.
Also his teeth. I’ve been trying to learn the dental charting numbers, and if I’m understanding correctly, John Doe’s #9 tooth was chipped; which would be one of his front central incisors (middle two front teeth). Looking at Donald’s photo it appears as though he has a chipped tooth in that same location. Unless it’s a spot on the photograph.
His age and hair color are pretty different than though...
51 years old (UID: 25-35)
5’4-5’5” (UID: 5’3”-5’5”)
120-150 lbs (UID: 140-150)
brown hair/hazel eyes (UID: brown/black hair)
If y’all think it’s worth it, I’ve found a few message boards/forums that have family searching for Donald. Some I can’t link here, but this is one from Ancestry posted by someone claiming to be his son...
“looking for lost father donald allen warren bonn 1929 mich.lived in stocton,calif. around 1960/61. i am his son britt allen warren. born june 6 1960 in french camp.near stockton,calif.i was kid naped my my mother.[unwed]lyace sanders.anny help would be gratefull.i have been missing for 40 years.and counting“
(The date of this post is older than some on the other forums) Maybe one of them would be able to tell us if he had any surgeries?
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carbuff
Well-Known Member
The location is curious. Both the mapped location and the one described. On one hand it would seem that he was dumped there by someone traveling one of the major thoroughfares you mentioned Carbuff. On the other hand, I wonder if they weren’t familiar with that area. With so many of those type businesses, vehicle traffic would be pretty sporadic. Unlike a residential area where people would be more likely to notice a strange vehicle or suspicious activity. I guess that doesn’t necessarily mean they were familiar with that area though.
The wire is strange too simply because it was mentioned. Aside from trash I can’t think of any reason why someone would have wire wrapped around their neck. But I wonder why it was listed when I’m sure, given the area, there had to be more trash on/around him.
A couple of things stood out to me...
- Is this a surplus canal or The Surplus Canal? (I’m not familiar with the area and Google maps doesn’t tell me lol)
- Is it normal for people to be canoeing here?
- What about the train tracks that run through the area? One of the locations looked to be within a stone’s throw from the tracks...
Good questions and thoughts.
I believe it's named Surplus Canal, but Google wasn't much help, was it? It's the canal (canal system?) that handles the runoff from the airport and channels it to the Great Salt Lake. I found this article about it--has some nice pictures. Utah canal to get face-lift after flunking test
If I recall correctly (my college roomie was from SLC and I visited her a couple of times) it's normal for people to canoe in that network of lakes, reservoirs, and canals between the airport and the lake.
I forgot about the railroad tracks.
Given that he's so well dressed, I doubt if he was riding the rails.
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Okay, that helps explain the canal. And the canoeing...I was thinking it was a lot smaller and rugged than that.
My train of thought regarding the tracks was not so much that he was a drifter or willing riding the tracks, but maybe that was how he ended up there. Still trying to explain the wire (what little we know about it), I thought maybe it could have been used in an attempt to secure his body to the train.
I was looking through missing person files and of course there aren’t many from Utah who fit that description so I was trying to see if maybe there was a particular place that was connected to the area by the rail system.
And this is a much too complicated theory but a theory nonetheless - but if he had been killed somewhere else, one way to see to it that law enforcement had a more difficult time identifying a killer or victim, would be to somehow “secure” the body to a train car. Same as dumping a body across state lines. The killer would have known the train was at least going to leave the city, but most likely the state. Someone would eventually find him, although I’m sure they didn’t expect it would be this way...
Here’s an interesting history of some of Utah’s railroads
Utah/Railroads - OpenStreetMap Wiki
List of Utah railroads - Wikipedia
My train of thought
regarding the tracks was not so much that he was a drifter or willing riding the tracks, but maybe that was how he ended up there. Still trying to explain the wire (what little we know about it), I thought maybe it could have been used in an attempt to secure his body to the train.I was looking through missing person files and of course there aren’t many from Utah who fit that description so I was trying to see if maybe there was a particular place that was connected to the area by the rail system.
And this is a much too complicated theory but a theory nonetheless - but if he had been killed somewhere else, one way to see to it that law enforcement had a more difficult time identifying a killer or victim, would be to somehow “secure” the body to a train car. Same as dumping a body across state lines. The killer would have known the train was at least going to leave the city, but most likely the state. Someone would eventually find him, although I’m sure they didn’t expect it would be this way...
Here’s an interesting history of some of Utah’s railroads
Utah/Railroads - OpenStreetMap Wiki
List of Utah railroads - Wikipedia
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Here’s one that fits in a few ways...
Wilfred Fred King III – The Charley Project
37 year old, white male, about 5’4”, 135 lbs, brown hair and brown eyes (2 years outside the estimated age range but all else matches)
The rest is what caught my eye...in particular his injuries and prior medical treatment...Per The Charley Project:
Clothing/Jewelry Description: An inexpensive wrist, watch and a belt with a silver dollar buckle engraved with the years 1776-1976.
Medical Conditions: Wilfred was struck by a car and severely injured two years prior to his disappearance. He was in a coma for weeks and spent eight months recovering at home. He learned to walk again, but needed to use metal crutches. His crutches have since been located.
[RSBM] That day he was expecting an important call and wanted to stay home until he received it. He did receive the call, and afterwards, he went hunting behind the house, went home and cleaned up, and left again. He has never been heard from again.
A few days later, the same day he was reported missing, hunters found Wilfred's bloodstained crutches in the woods off Middle Road in Colchester, Vermont. An article of clothing thought to be his was also located. A few weeks after that, his truck was found abandoned and burned at the Oak Hill gravel pit in Williston, Vermont.
Investigators believe Wilfred was the victim of a homicide. He was in the process of a divorce at the time of his disappearance, and his relationship with Diane Irish King, his estranged wife of fourteen years, was very difficult. Wilfred's parents feared for his safety and tried to make sure he never went out alone. They tried to get him to take his oldest son with him when he left on the day of his disappearance, but he refused.
[RSBM]
(This blogger has a no holds barred approach to their writing, which I personally appreciate, but FYI...it provides more details about his disappearance)
Missing and Presumed Dead: Wilfred Fred King III
Wilfred Fred King III – The Charley Project
37 year old, white male, about 5’4”, 135 lbs, brown hair and brown eyes (2 years outside the estimated age range but all else matches)
The rest is what caught my eye...in particular his injuries and prior medical treatment...Per The Charley Project:
Clothing/Jewelry Description: An inexpensive wrist, watch and a belt with a silver dollar buckle engraved with the years 1776-1976.
Medical Conditions: Wilfred was struck by a car and severely injured two years prior to his disappearance. He was in a coma for weeks and spent eight months recovering at home. He learned to walk again, but needed to use metal crutches. His crutches have since been located.
[RSBM] That day he was expecting an important call and wanted to stay home until he received it. He did receive the call, and afterwards, he went hunting behind the house, went home and cleaned up, and left again. He has never been heard from again.
A few days later, the same day he was reported missing, hunters found Wilfred's bloodstained crutches in the woods off Middle Road in Colchester, Vermont. An article of clothing thought to be his was also located. A few weeks after that, his truck was found abandoned and burned at the Oak Hill gravel pit in Williston, Vermont.
Investigators believe Wilfred was the victim of a homicide. He was in the process of a divorce at the time of his disappearance, and his relationship with Diane Irish King, his estranged wife of fourteen years, was very difficult. Wilfred's parents feared for his safety and tried to make sure he never went out alone. They tried to get him to take his oldest son with him when he left on the day of his disappearance, but he refused.
[RSBM]
(This blogger has a no holds barred approach to their writing, which I personally appreciate, but FYI...it provides more details about his disappearance)
Missing and Presumed Dead: Wilfred Fred King III
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Michael is way too tall but otherwise I’d say this was the closest possible match...
Michael Guy Johnston – The Charley Project
A few other possibles...
Salvador Quintanilla – The Charley Project
Edward Hale Tidwell – The Charley Project
Back surgery:
Ronald Sidney Shelley – The Charley Project
Fractured pelvis:
Ollie Letrell Cader – The Charley Project
(I inadvertently locked myself out of my NamUs account so I have to wait 24 hours to reset my password. lol. I’m taking that as a sign to leave this one alone for a little while)
Michael Guy Johnston – The Charley Project
A few other possibles...
Salvador Quintanilla – The Charley Project
Edward Hale Tidwell – The Charley Project
Back surgery:
Ronald Sidney Shelley – The Charley Project
Fractured pelvis:
Ollie Letrell Cader – The Charley Project
(I inadvertently locked myself out of my NamUs account so I have to wait 24 hours to reset my password. lol. I’m taking that as a sign to leave this one alone for a little while)
carbuff
Well-Known Member
Wilfred King is really interesting--tight match on the stats, the injury similarity, even the watch. But Vermont is one of the few places it would be hard to get to from SLC--well, not really hard, I guess, just long. The bigger question would be why and how, since it appears he was killed at the time he disappeared.
Unless maybe the hired killer was a truck driver who just threw the body in the truck and then dumped it in a convenient place?
Unless maybe the hired killer was a truck driver who just threw the body in the truck and then dumped it in a convenient place?
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I know! And then with Michael Johnston it’s almost the opposite. The how and why fit perfectly but the vital stats aren’t quite there. The one blog I posted about Wilfred provides a lot of info about the alleged players in his disappearance...I may go back and read through that one more thoroughly. See if there’s anything there...
carbuff
Well-Known Member
We've seen very large height discrepancies in other cases, so that doesn't concern me overmuch. The main reason I would rule Johnston out is that the decedent was wearing a warm jacket and Johnston disappeared in July.
Wilfred, however, disappeared in late October in Vermont and might well have needed a warm jacket.
Blurgle
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Or he might have been salvaging metal. I was thinking a drainage canal a foot or so wide, not something that could be canoed in.
Edit: in fact, given that this seems to be an industrial area he might have been picking up scrap that got flushed into the canal, tripped, knocked himself out, and drowned in the canal. Perhaps he was homeless, or like a lot of scrap pickers lived on his own in a little shack.
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carbuff
Well-Known Member
Catching up--If he got a driver's license in Pahrump, he must have lived there for at least a few weeks. The timeframe is good. Stats are reasonable, especially height which is pretty short for an adult male. We've had age be way off on other cases before, but that's off by a lot.
I dunno. Might be worth looking into some more.
only found one close match useing the new nam-us 2.0 The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) for donald warren The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
i looked at photo very hard to tell in the water very long time and a drawing at that to. John Doe 281-90 | Office of the Medical Examiner