UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #6

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I doubt LE would share information with Ed Smart, though. I believe he'd be a great source of comfort to the Cox family, yes, but I doubt he's privy to anything.
 
Gin said:
Maybe I should jump in here, since I've been mentioning him. I saw a news conference or two (may have been more) where he was providing support to Mr. Cox. I was glad to see that. I think they stay in touch--pretty sure I've heard that.
Ed lives in SLC. When his daughter disappeared, she was gone through a winter. There were many searches, time passed, and we all know there was a very good conclusion when Elizabeth was found.
He knows the horrible pain of having a missing family member. He must have infinite sympathy for Mr. Cox and family, as well as the suffering of the two little boys, among others.
Because he's well versed in media, as well as searches (due to circumstances that were thrust upon his family) I think he'd gladly step up to do whatever he could do. I don't believe he'd ever do anything without the express OK of LE.
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Thanks Gin. Where there searches for his daughter through the winter? I did not follow this case at all.

I also think it is important Ed Smart was comforting Mr. Cox and not Josh. Makes me think he has no sympathy or feels the "wrongly accused" connection with Josh.
 
mom_of_five said:
Assuming Susan was, in fact, taken for 'deprogramming'...isn't that still kidnapping? If LE had evidence that something of the sort had, in fact, taken place...wouldn't they be arresting someone for kidnapping or conspiracy to kidnap, etc? And wouldn't Susan and Josh's LDS friends be offended instead of supportive? :waitasec:
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BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.
 
Bartleby said:
BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.
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You could make this argument on just about every missing person's case, really. I would hope they'd start forming some plausible theories by now based on what they know.

The fact that Susan's had co-workers coming forth stating that she had plans to write a letter about how she would NEVER commit suicide, just in case something happens, is really explosive. Add this to the: 2007 bankruptcy (HUGE stress on a family....this is around the time she had to go back to work), 2008 e-mails to ?? about fearing Josh, separate bank account was opened by Susan, counseling with Peterson, then she turns up missing....it's all painting a very sad picture of the realities of their marriage. SUSAN's reality.

I wonder if and when Josh ever found out about her separate bank account. She probably never intended on leaving Josh, as much as it was a way to keep Josh from emptying out their bank account and taking the kids. I think that may have been one of her greatest fears.
 
wyome said:
You could make this argument on just about every missing person's case, really. I would hope they'd start forming some plausible theories by now based on what they know.

The fact that Susan's had co-workers coming forth stating that she had plans to write a letter about how she would NEVER commit suicide, just in case something happens, is really explosive. Add this to the: 2007 bankruptcy (HUGE stress on a family....this is around the time she had to go back to work), 2008 e-mails to ?? about fearing Josh, separate bank account was opened by Susan, counseling with Peterson, then she turns up missing....it's all painting a very sad picture of the realities of their marriage. SUSAN's reality.

I wonder if and when Josh ever found out about her separate bank account. She probably never intended on leaving Josh, as much as it was a way to keep Josh from emptying out their bank account and taking the kids. I think that may have been one of her greatest fears.
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Agreed, I can only think she stayed with him as long a sshe did for the boys' sake, and becasue LDS frown on divorce even more than most religions, especially if it's the wife pushing for divorce.

It's very sad that Susan appears to have lived in fear of Josh for at least the past year, and started preparing herself to leave, but didn't get away in time.
 
Bartleby said:
BBM It may be not so much that LE have evidence that this has taken place, but that they don't have evidence that it has not taken place, so they are keeping all lines of enquiry open.
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Personally I don't think the police are entertaining that that possibility at all but I think Kiirsi want's to make people think they are.
 
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.
 
Dang this Video is so good.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-3ZH5SqqZs&feature=related[/ame]
 
Curious Me said:
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.
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I agree, there must be a reason. Even if that reason is simply that LE doesn't have enough information yet. Surely, they should begin receiving at least preliminary results of evidence collected from the home by now. But that won't necessarily tell them where to look.

I know that the area Josh told police he went camping is supposed to be 2,000 miles long. I'm sure police would have liked to have had a 2-hour car ride with Josh earlier on to show them exactly where, but Josh lawyered up.
I wish they could have taken him on this trip within the first 48 hours. That's a looooong car ride that could have elicited some loose talk.

I've read that the police would like to ask Josh further questions about Susan's disposition that night, people who he thought she might confide in, details about their marriage, etc. Which makes me wonder...if they had 2 previous interviews with Josh before he lawyered up, what WAS being asked?
 
Curious Me said:
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.
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I agree, very mysterious, strange, odd...

While I realize that JP probably wasn't thinking clearly during the disposal, don't you think he or his dad would have thought it would be a bad idea to put her in the freezing snow and ice where her body would be preserved fairly well? I understand that it's a big, big world out there, and finding her would be like finding a needle in a haystack, snow or not, BUT, I would think he would have been pretty paranoid, and would consider her body being found a strong possibility. If she is not in the snow somewhere, what are other options. Were the bodies of water out there already frozen? I'm not an experienced sleuther, but where else have bodies been found?
 
Heatherly30 said:
I agree, very mysterious, strange, odd...

While I realize that JP probably wasn't thinking clearly during the disposal, don't you think he or his dad would have thought it would be a bad idea to put her in the freezing snow and ice where her body would be preserved fairly well? I understand that it's a big, big world out there, and finding her would be like finding a needle in a haystack, snow or not, BUT, I would think he would have been pretty paranoid, and would consider her body being found a strong possibility. If she is not in the snow somewhere, what are other options. Were the bodies of water out there already frozen? I'm not an experienced sleuther, but where else have bodies been found?
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http://www.trainweb.org/utahrails/mining/utmines.html
 
SuziQ said:
***************

I feel the reason the family is not searching is probably the same reason LE, the Ward, co-workers aren't searching. IMO, the family and LE has info that says a search isn't possible. What other reason could there be for a loving dad :waitasec: to go back home two states away and not search? The rest are following suit. Someone brought up Ed Smart. Him and his brother have organized and participated in other searches. Why not this one?

Yes, 20 people came to Josh's aid. There are several hundred in that ward who didn't. I don't see this as a religion thing. I'd say that's probably the same percentage in any case like this one where religion is not involved. There will always be people who don't want to see the obvious. There will always be people who don't want to know. There will always be people who don't want the burden of judging anyone and leave that up to God (if you are religious) and the justice system (for those not religious).

IMO, if the situation was reversed, Susan would have more backers and more people helping her. The public has a hard time believing women are capable of horrible crimes, especially crimes against their own children. And when these women are found guilty, the public still has a hard time handing down a death sentence.
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(bbm) Hi suzi, *IMO* they're not searching because Josh hasn't yet provided them w the slightest clue of where to search. "I wouldn't even know where to begin..." The only way I believe that is if Susan's body was handed off, and he wasn't the one who actually disposed of her. She's not in seclusion being deprogrammed--and that wet spot wasn't a puddle of tears.

Btw lest we paint w too broad a brush here :/ please allow me to clarify that some of us faithfilled Godfearing folk actually understand we're not only subject to governmental authorities (obeying laws, LE, our judicial and our correctional systems) but can appreciate that it's PEOPLE who are needed to establish and enforce law and order--and have no desire to live in anarchy lol. (Not sure how *we* got lumped in w some "God alone can judge" crowd but assure you it's the farthest thing from the truth. Authority brings order and organization--and any "que sera sera, we're too harsh just forgive criminals don't judge" carp :boohoo: has nothing whatsoever to do w my beliefs, which I thought should be fairly and accurately represented.) JMVHO

:parrot:
 
Bartleby said:
Agreed, I can only think she stayed with him as long a sshe did for the boys' sake, and becasue LDS frown on divorce even more than most religions, especially if it's the wife pushing for divorce.

It's very sad that Susan appears to have lived in fear of Josh for at least the past year, and started preparing herself to leave, but didn't get away in time.
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Bartleby:

I respectfully disagree with your assessment of the LDS view of divorce. Yes, we frown upon divorce as much as any other religion, and would hope that two people who made vows to each other would do everything in their power to honor those vows and work to stay in love and raise children in a stable loving home. But when one (or both) of the partners become overly controlling, abusive, threatening, etc. it is in the best interest of all to end that marriage and keep everyone safe and sane. And I would disagree that the church (or its members) would be any more unhappy with a woman pushing for divorce than a man. If anything, it would be the other way around!
 
Curious Me said:
Thread #6 starts with many of you confirming my own feelings. It has been strange that searches haven't been promoted more, and her friends too helpful to the only POI. I don't understand it, but there must be a reason. At this point, I am unable to form any strong opinions, not knowing all the facts, and the reasoning behind the non-search. Totally mystified. I'm sad for Susan, her family, and for her two sons.
Click to expand...

It appears there is a search being organized. http://www.tribtowns.com/comments/read_comments.asp?ref=14161676&PageIndex=51

Someone named IDRINKCOKE is starting a loosely organized search and has gotten Home Depot to donate red tags to put on searcher's trucks and areas already searched. I am hoping the Trib and local radio stations will pick up on this and help promote it. I wish I lived in Utah so I could help too!
 
I'm not in Susan's friends/family's position (thank God), but I know that if I were missing, I'd be devastated to find out that NO ONE was searching for me.

If my child or loved one were missing, I wouldn't care if they were last seen in Siberia. No one would be able to keep me from looking for them.

I just do not understand the lack of searching.
 
I wonder what would have happened if nobody showed up to help Josh pack and he had to spend a week or two o in that house with Susan's memory and ghost. I bet she would have convinced him to tell the truth.
 
kiki the parrot said:
(bbm) Hi suzi, *IMO* they're not searching because Josh hasn't yet provided them w the slightest clue of where to search. "I wouldn't even know where to begin..." The only way I believe that is if Susan's body was handed off, and he wasn't the one who actually disposed of her. She's not in seclusion being deprogrammed--and that wet spot wasn't a puddle of tears.

Btw lest we paint w too broad a brush here :/ please allow me to clarify that some of us faithfilled Godfearing folk actually understand we're not only subject to governmental authorities (obeying laws, LE, our judicial and our correctional systems) but can appreciate that it's PEOPLE who are needed to establish and enforce law and order--and have no desire to live in anarchy lol. (Not sure how *we* got lumped in w some "God alone can judge" crowd but assure you it's the farthest thing from the truth. Authority brings order and organization--and any "que sera sera, we're too harsh just forgive criminals don't judge" carp :boohoo: has nothing whatsoever to do w my beliefs, which I thought should be fairly and accurately represented.) JMVHO

:parrot:
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But Kiki, with all due respect - who is not standing up to judge Josh? Who is not enforcing law and order? Letting LE do their job is not the same as condoning his behavior. Ten people going to help him move does not make them accomplices in Susan's murder.

Seriously, I think you've misjudged this. I'll tell you a few things I know for sure:

1) If LE announced, "We're going to do a search in such-and-such an area. We need everyone possible there" - there would be hundreds upon hundreds of people there. It happened with Elizabeth Smart. It happened with Lori Hacking. It would be at least that with Susan Powell. Nobody is taking Josh's side over Susan's. He has been deservedly vilified here.

As it is, nobody would have any idea where to start. Take a look at that list of mines I posted. Those are the big ones. I have a lot of bandwidth, and it still took fifteen seconds or so for that list to load. And as it says at the top of the list, those are just "some" of Utah's mines. And mines are just one type of place Susan could be hidden.

2) If Josh had been charged at this point, there wouldn't even be ten or so people that would come out to his house to help him. I don't know any of those people. But I bet you that they're great people, with great intentions. I bet Kiirsi is a great person, with great intentions. It's easy to play armchair QB here and say, "Those gullible fools! How could they help a murderer?" I'm guessing each of them have fairly complicated reasons for it - and mixed in each of those reasons is likely an innocent-until-proven-guilty approach. It's naive, maybe. But it's also the silly, naive approach that protects innocent people from being falsely charged. This isn't Salem.

If, and hopefully when, Josh is charged, you'll see that all stop. You won't see any public proclamations in his favor. You won't hear about it, but he will immediately be excommunicated from the LDS Church. You'll see him get served the same justice in front of a Utah jury that you would see in front of juries anywhere else in the US.

I should keep my mouth shut. But some of your comments almost make it sound as if people in his area are doing potlucks to raise money for his defense.
 
Curious Me said:
I get the point - there's a slew of mines to search, and with weather conditions and the terrain it makes it near impossible to find Susan. So, let's just forget about it and go have some hot chocolate. How sad is that?
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Okay, so let's follow that line. Let me ask you a few questions.

1) Who do you think should be searching? The general public? Susan's family? Law enforcement?

2) If you could guess, what is the main reason people like the Coxes are not searching? Specifically? Do they not love her as much as some families love their kids? Are they lazy?

I'm not trying to sound pretentious. I guess I just have a total disconnect on some of that thinking, and I really want to understand it.
 
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