VA - Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell, 18, Norfolk, 3 March 2015 #19

[Ontario Mom]

Tricia...excellent program! :clap:

Just had a chance to listen myself this morning. I couldn't agree more - EXCELLENT show. Thank you Tricia.

 

[NJJohn]

Does anyone else feel like there is a huge piece we are missing here? I am looking at her pictures and her friends pictures and I am completely missing how this came about. Completely. She doesnt strike me as someone who would become pregnant. She seems like a pretty smart kid who was on a path to being a successful adult. IIRC some postings, Zach said she didnt smoke. And although he says his initial main concern was that she OD'd somewhere, possibly with someone, he said he didnt know if she was a drug user.

She doesnt look like one-she looks healthy and happy in every picture.

Stories like this dont happen in a vacuum and although I know many of you think that the evil influence in her life is now in custody, there has to be more here. It is tough to be in an unstable home life with unstable/criminal influences and not show signs of that influence. She has no record, right? No dui's, no shop lifting, no drugs, no runaways? For the last 5 years at least, her primary male influence has been WH it seems. IDK-I dont know of many children who succeed like this in their teen years in spite of a dark distressing home life.

Maybe I am missing the teen angst side of this story. But there should be one. I just cant get a handle on this.

You have to mine WH's rambling word salad for the nuggets of truth. One of them is where he was talking about how he promised that his life wouldn't get out of control again and he broke that promise. I think for most of the 5 years he was there, it wasn't chaotic, but rather, his life was only spiraling downhill again relatively recently. Zach talked at length about knowing WH's history but coming to an uneasy trust with him around his daughters and that (in the beginning right after AJ's disappearance) he didn't believe that WH would harm AJ. To me, all of this points to the full 5 years of WH's influence in the family being relatively calm and normal and not dark & distressing but recently falling into old habits and bad influences, which looks like it led right back to the violent felon behavior of his past.

Another conflating part of the story is that what people have focused on in AJ is completely the positive. And that's natural as the victim because, in general, she seems like a normal, successful college student. But she did talk about partying on her twitter and she did cut Zach out of her life, so she's not 100% the perfect angel that she's made out to be, but again, these are just normal teenager things that are irrelevant to her disappearance and death, so they haven't really come up in any discussions, and once she was found, the memorial and funeral became a tribute and celebration of her life, so, of course, it would focus on the positive things in her life. I say this not to say that we need to bash or sleuth AJ, but rather just keep it in mind when the post-disappearance public image you have of the perfect angel doesn't reconcile with the fate that befell her.

 

[sallye818]

Just had a chance to listen myself this morning. I couldn't agree more - EXCELLENT show. Thank you Tricia.

I also just listened. Very good, Tricia. Zach's statement was wonderful. Can we dissect it? I noticed he mentioned the words perversions, hate and anger. I know he can't share all of what he knows or thinks but can we "sleuth"? Obviously some of the anger comes from drug use, but where else is all this hate and perversion (from WH? others?) coming from?

 

[NJJohn]

I do not know the answer to your question, but when she was alive, that is what the "header" on her personal Facebook page had (Anjelica Hadsell and Anjelica Hoffer). I had assumed it was so people who knew her as Hoffer would know it was her.

It looks like that is her personal page that was turned into a tribute page.

 

[Hoosgirl]

Sorry, more questions:

This FB says Anjelica Hoffer-who put this FB page up?

It was her fb page. Someone must have access to it as the "remembering" part is recent. She was born Angelica Langer, then went by Anjelica Hoffer for most her life, then Anjelica Hadsell.

 

[mom2six]

Question was she breaking up with her BF?
Or were they still very much together?

On her Twitter page, AJ complained about not spending much time with her BF, even over Christmas break. It sounds like he was working a lot. She expresses envy that a friend was planning an outing with him and she was far away so she couldn't participate. So I don't think everything was hunky-dory in their relationship. Also in the obit, he is listed as a friend, but not a boyfriend. Take that for what you will.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/pilotonline/obituary.aspx?n=anjelica-hadsell-aj&pid=174620224&

 

[believe09]

You have to mine WH's rambling word salad for the nuggets of truth. One of them is where he was talking about how he promised that his life wouldn't get out of control again and he broke that promise. I think for most of the 5 years he was there, it wasn't chaotic, but rather, his life was only spiraling downhill again relatively recently. Zach talked at length about knowing WH's history but coming to an uneasy trust with him around his daughters and that (in the beginning right after AJ's disappearance) he didn't believe that WH would harm AJ. To me, all of this points to the full 5 years of WH's influence in the family being relatively calm and normal and not dark & distressing but recently falling into old habits and bad influences, which looks like it led right back to the violent felon behavior of his past.

Another conflating part of the story is that what people have focused on in AJ is completely the positive. And that's natural as the victim because, in general, she seems like a normal, successful college student. But she did talk about partying on her twitter and she did cut Zach out of her life, so she's not 100% the perfect angel that she's made out to be, but again, these are just normal teenager things that are irrelevant to her disappearance and death, so they haven't really come up in any discussions, and once she was found, the memorial and funeral became a tribute and celebration of her life, so, of course, it would focus on the positive things in her life. I say this not to say that we need to bash or sleuth AJ, but rather just keep it in mind when the post-disappearance public image you have of the perfect angel doesn't reconcile with the fate that befell her.

thank you for your considered response. I am not looking to bash AJ whatsoever-partying doesnt concern me at all. I think it is really really important to know the victim because it makes it much easier to determine what influences in their lives were driving what behavior. If AJ was being oppressed, abused or influenced by this career criminal for a period of time, I would have expected to see that in some fashion kwim? If WH was spiraling out of control while AJ was an adult or for a shorter period of time, I guess I can understand this a little bit better.

I am still confused about the Zach/AJ situation tbh. Who pushed who out or was it mutual and do we have an understanding of the why?

As for the adoption by Hadsell, it seems to me that AJ would have had some say in this matter. She was a teen although not the age of majority so to speak. If she had objected strenuously, would the judge have permitted her name to stay what it was legally at the time? And she was certainly old enough to jettison the name once she became an adult.

 

[Faithx2]

It was her fb page. Someone must have access to it as the "remembering" part is recent. She was born Angelica Langer, then went by Anjelica Hoffer for most her life, then Anjelica Hadsell.

When someone passes you can send a request to fb to memorialize their page. that is where the remembering comes from.

 

[believe09]

It was her fb page. Someone must have access to it as the "remembering" part is recent. She was born Angelica Langer, then went by Anjelica Hoffer for most her life, then Anjelica Hadsell.

Those post disappearance access to FB pages always disturb me, fwiw.

 

[believe09]

When someone passes you can send a request to fb to memorialize their page. that is where the remembering comes from.

:banghead: Ugh, that must make it fun for LE to try and figure out what is going on with social media in a case where there is a victim.

 

[Hoosgirl]

I did not know that about memorialization! So it is possible that the login remained secure:

https://m.facebook.com/help/150486848354038?refid=69

 

[Hoosgirl]

Actually, with that being said, there was more publically on AJ's page when she first went missing. So someone did access it and make it more private.

 

[NJJohn]

thank you for your considered response. I am not looking to bash AJ whatsoever-partying doesnt concern me at all. I think it is really really important to know the victim because it makes it much easier to determine what influences in their lives were driving what behavior. If AJ was being oppressed, abused or influenced by this career criminal for a period of time, I would have expected to see that in some fashion kwim? If WH was spiraling out of control while AJ was an adult or for a shorter period of time, I guess I can understand this a little bit better.

I am still confused about the Zach/AJ situation tbh. Who pushed who out or was it mutual and do we have an understanding of the why?

As for the adoption by Hadsell, it seems to me that AJ would have had some say in this matter. She was a teen although not the age of majority so to speak. If she had objected strenuously, would the judge have permitted her name to stay what it was legally at the time? And she was certainly old enough to jettison the name once she became an adult.

As for Zach and AJ, all we have is Zach's side of the story, which is that JH pushed AJ away from Zach. While I'm sure that is the truth on a certain level, I'm also certain there is much more to this story, but frankly, this is all part of what appears to be long, bitter divorce/custody situation for which any one party's perspective is bound to be incomplete and biased. I think it's better that this subject is left out of this discussion altogether because it is an ongoing legal matter (involving the other daughters) that is not at all related to AJ's disappearance. Zach has commented on this to a certain degree, but, frankly, I think it's best for him not to at all in public, and I'd hate to see him say something in here that ends up being used against him in a custody hearing.

 

[Ontario Mom]

thank you for your considered response. I am not looking to bash AJ whatsoever-partying doesnt concern me at all. I think it is really really important to know the victim because it makes it much easier to determine what influences in their lives were driving what behavior. If AJ was being oppressed, abused or influenced by this career criminal for a period of time, I would have expected to see that in some fashion kwim? If WH was spiraling out of control while AJ was an adult or for a shorter period of time, I guess I can understand this a little bit better.

I am still confused about the Zach/AJ situation tbh. Who pushed who out or was it mutual and do we have an understanding of the why?

As for the adoption by Hadsell, it seems to me that AJ would have had some say in this matter. She was a teen although not the age of majority so to speak. If she had objected strenuously, would the judge have permitted her name to stay what it was legally at the time? And she was certainly old enough to jettison the name once she became an adult.

I know exactly what you mean but the answer is no. First, we don't know what was really going on there and second, if there was something going on, it's very very very common for those being victimized to completely internalize it, and put on a GREAT show, that everything is fine. In countless cases, literally no one knows except the victim and the perp.

No matter how far we've come as a society in speaking about this publicly and attempting to remove the stigma from victims, the shame and the (misplaced) guilt is still there and probably always will be. It's what abusers count on to keep their victims silent and compliant.

 

[spamelope]

I'd like to make an impassioned plea for a thread on social media, even if it's in the basement. It figures prominently in the case with so many of the players!

PS See you kids on the flipside! RIP to general discussion thread.

 

[arkansasmimi]

May there be Justice for Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell .....

 

[arkansasmimi]

Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post

4' privacy wood fence. With gate.

I am 5'6 that isn't a very tall privacy fence. So surly if someone was in the backyard doing something out of ordinary someone could see correct? JMO

 

[5CentsWorth]

I am 5'6 that isn't a very tall privacy fence. So surly if someone was in the backyard doing something out of ordinary someone could see correct? JMO

I think so. I have a 6 ft. privacy fence in my backyard and my neighbors and I can still see each other when we are up on our decks. There is privacy in certain areas of my yard. I wouldn't think 4 ft. would provide much privacy though.

I'm gonna miss the general discussion. :grouphug::floating::

 

[arkansasmimi]

Zach She told me because I picked the girls up from her that afternoon and she wanted me to know why they might be upset. I didn't talk to him that night. Last time prior to that was about a week before she went missing. Maybe 2 She told me because I picked the girls up from her that afternoon and she wanted me to know why they might be upset. I didn't talk to him that night. Last time prior to that was about a week before she went missing. Maybe 2 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rfolk-3-March-2015-12&p=11665843#post11665843

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...8#post11665748

I searched with my other two daughters. Tarrallton park. Parked the car at north parking lot at Tarrallton. Talked with Jennifer. Police were called that night (3rd). Not sure off the top of my head. The girls and I searched from about 9p til 11p then I searched for a little while after, like behind Jennifer's house, which backs up to Tarrallton. It was very cold and I was worried she walked off, maybe having taken pills or other drugs (she doesn't have a history). I was worried she was cold and passed out. I told a couple officers during the police search on the first Sunday, but it doesn't matter that I searched because they still need to search for themselves and I could have missed something. It's just easier in the snow, because there would be footprints. By the time we decided to search, a lot of Anjelica's friends were searching. My gut told me to look in the park. That's where she would walk to. It's also where she might be taken if she was hurt. It's close and accessible.

If the mother tells Zach in afternoon, that AJ missing and the sisters may be upset... why did they wait til night fall to contact LEO and start looking?

 

[katydid23]

The first piece wasn't found during a search. It was found when the kid was walking home after work. I get the impression that it was close to the kid's house.

The next day was when WH coordinated a search.

I heard that said before---but if that is true, how did nephbro end up being there to take a picture?

If it is true that Texty was just walking home from work, saw the broken card and then DH suddenly popped up and took a photo---it would seem like even more of a set up than I thought.