VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #1

[Atlantica]

Hmmm....I work closely with troubled youth. I absolutely believe in rehab/therapy whatever you want to call it and if restricting computer time is necessary so be it. Many teenage girls get into trouble from guys they meet on the internet. Because of my "caregiver" role professionally I would not consider this opinion worthless. A friend of mine's daughter (15) got kidnapped last July by someone she met on the internet. She was missing for over a month before she was finally found hours away. So basically my opinion comes from professional and personal experience.

Geez, have you people been out of college so long that you cannot read and analyze within context??

The opinion is worthless because of the source (someone who has neither been there, done that, or trained to deal with such situations). No one, even other parents can say what they would have done because the Kelley situation, like all others, was UNIQUE and others cannot know every nuance and circumstance the family encountered in trying to help their child.

Who is ANYONE to judge, or make lame-*advertiser censored* suggestions when it is FAR too late.

 

[tapu]

I said nothing of the sort. But if you haven't been there, or ok, if you are not a licensed family therapist perhaps, then you cannot possibly know what it is like to be in such a situation and wisely remain silent.

Yeah... I guess I can't understand just what it is you're saying.

 

[Atlantica]

Atlantica - While appreciate your opinion - I couldn't disagree more with the above quote, it is highly insular IMO. I DO NOT believe we should consider this a GOTH group - your typical Goth would not listen to the crap these kids listened to. I would put them in the realm of "devil worshippers". Knowing plenty of "Goth" folk and having close friends of that "stereotype" - I can assure you they come from all walks of life and are usually quite highly intelligent and have an incredible creativity.

Incidentally - there are plenty of "Christians/Jews/Muslims that murder as well - does that make their religious belief laughable too?

To answer your final question, yes, of course.

The Goth culture deals with the dark side of life/culture/society, and in Western Civ, at least, those are sides/qualities associated with the so-called devil/satan.

 

[Atlantica]

http://www.contracostatimes.com/crime-courts/ci_13383858?nclick_check=1

excerpt:
McCroskey will be formally charged with the other three killings once the bodies are identified, Stimpson said. He said "there are a number of factors relating to why" police couldn't identify the victims. He would not say how they were killed.

Glad somebody brought this up. From what information I have been able to gather here in central va, two of the bodies were difficult to identify not so much from decomposition (it's not *that* far south for such temperatures and the house was air conditioned) but due to mutilation. Sad.

 

[tapu]

Geez, have you people been out of college so long that you cannot read and analyze within context??

The opinion is worthless because of the source (someone who has neither been there, done that, or trained to deal with such situations). No one, even other parents can say what they would have done because the Kelley situation, like all others, was UNIQUE and others cannot know every nuance and circumstance the family encountered in trying to help their child.

Who is ANYONE to judge, or make lame-*advertiser censored* suggestions when it is FAR too late.

I'm pretty okay with judging the parenting of people who let their 16yo daughter invite this creep into their house to stay. And... hey, let's look at the evidence in my favor: they got themselves killed!

This seems pretty clear-cut to me. If you argue that they did the right thing, how do you explain that a complete stranger who professes to worship death was allowed in to just kill them?

If you say we don't know how it went down, well, hello, they put them all in a van and drove them to a death-fest concert first! Their child was a minor. This was a man from 3000 miles away who they knew through the internet. I can and do wish to make the judgment that they just might have been a little more cautious.

 

[JoeFromLB]

Well, I can say with a fair bit of authority that the figure Christians/Satanists/etc believe exists is supported by zilch empirical evidence. That sort of thing matters to a great many people, though granted, they are the more educated sort, typically speaking. Now, perhaps what you are saying that since a great many people (unfortunately) believe a satan figure exists, what matters is that they think he/it is real, which leads to various types of behavior, i.e.: Christians, et al try hard to not involve themselves in what is termed 'satanic' behaviors, and in *some* cases instill irrational fear in children -- while the so-called satanists embrace what they define as satanic qualities. So, if that is the case then I do agree with you -- scary scary stuff.

And laughable was a poor choice of words -- I should say that to rational minds, either the fear or the embracing of a fictional character is pathetic and sad, not laughable.

However, perhaps you are really speaking of things far more abstract -- satan, whatever name you want to call *evil* as a force in the universe. Perhaps! I tend to subscribe to the theory that in this world there are good, bad and everything inbetween. The bad ones do the most damage, make the most noise, and once identified should be removed from the population. I don't think that any supernatural force caused any person to be good/bad/fill in the blank -- perhaps more a case of healthy minds versus those that are not so much.

Well, you're making a lot of assumptions, and that's understandable because it's obvious you don't necessarily believe in a personal God or a personal devil. Please correct me if I'm making an unwarranted judgment here.
To those of us who do believe that Satan exists, it's not at all true that we try to "instill irrational fear" in our children, but rather we try to teach them about the real dangers facing their souls.

As to the existence of the devil being supported by "zilch empirical evidence", I would invite you (if you have the stomach to do so) to do a little research into the area of possession and exorcism. While I'm not saying we can prove the existence of a devil in a purely scientific way, to say there is "zilch empirical evidence" is perhaps overstating the case. If you mean by "empirical evidence" only that which can be measured scientifically, I'll grant you the point.

 

[Gene]

I took 10 screen grabs of Sam's Cached Myspace page. I think it might be valuauble in the future. I can only upload a max of 5 per post. Here are the first five.

 

[Gene]

Here are more screen grabs. I hope they are readable. I think that if you click the thumbnail, the photo expands to a larger more readable view.

 

[fhc]

Everyone's opinion and experience matters to me and is appreciated. There is no reason to be defensive or offensive here. jmo

 

[gxm]

I have no idea how Mel got to the house or why she went there, or why they did not pick Mel up along the way. All I can say is that several people who attended the concert said that it happened that way.

For example:

http://ycsmnews.rehashweb.com/forum/

As far as everyone knows, Emma and Mel and Sam [LilDemonDog], gathered at Emma's house to go to Serial Killin' Records, Strictly for the Wicked Festival in Detroit, Michigan.

I think that this is a very small point and I do not understand why you would think that everyone would like about it?

I get to sentences that begin:

"we at Mind Rape Musick are deeply saddened this has happened,…"

and I just have to stop reading.

http://ycsmnews.rehashweb.com/forum/

 

[tapu]

I took 10 screen grabs of Sam's Cached Myspace page. I think it might be valuauble in the future. I can only upload a max of 5 per post. Here are the first five.

Yeah, you got it before it started getting disassembled. I looked at it right when the news of this first came out and saw those photos and messages from "ragdoll." I thought maybe he had gone to virginia to see her and then ended up killing some people in a robbery or something. Instead, it was her and her family! So depressing.... She is obviously all excited about seeing him, like any young girl gets about a guy she likes.

 

[Atlantica]

Hmmm....I work closely with troubled youth. I absolutely believe in rehab/therapy whatever you want to call it and if restricting computer time is necessary so be it. Many teenage girls get into trouble from guys they meet on the internet. Because of my "caregiver" role professionally I would not consider this opinion worthless. A friend of mine's daughter (15) got kidnapped last July by someone she met on the internet. She was missing for over a month before she was finally found hours away. So basically my opinion comes from professional and personal experience.

All true, but again, how can anyone sit in judgment of this family without knowing all the particulars? And it is known that Emma was in therapy and had been so for at least two years. How do you know that her parents had not already tried the computer restricting bit and other things? How do you know that she had not already received in-patient therapy? My son received all that and more but he persisted. there are ways around everything if an individual is determined.

I know both parents only indirectly, but having been in a similar situation with a troubled teen myself, and from what I have heard from people who DID know them well, Emma's parents did every.thing.they.could. And then some. And lost their lives in the bargain.

Speculating and judging at this point really is worthless. And tasteless.

 

[Gene]

Whew...that was alot of screen grabs. Hope it will be useful to someone. Sam had two other MS pages...anyone else want to screen grab them before they disappear?

Emma and Melaine both hav e MS Pages, but they were both set to private.

 

[Atlantica]

Well, you're making a lot of assumptions, and that's understandable because it's obvious you don't necessarily believe in a personal God or a personal devil. Please correct me if I'm making an unwarranted judgment here.
To those of us who do believe that Satan exists, it's not at all true that we try to "instill irrational fear" in our children, but rather we try to teach them about the real dangers facing their souls.

As to the existence of the devil being supported by "zilch empirical evidence", I would invite you (if you have the stomach to do so) to do a little research into the area of possession and exorcism. While I'm not saying we can prove the existence of a devil in a purely scientific way, to say there is "zilch empirical evidence" is perhaps overstating the case. If you mean by "empirical evidence" only that which can be measured scientifically, I'll grant you the point.

Oh, my...lol. Well, of course I refer to empirical evidence. Or even proven circumstantial evidence. Everything else is fairy tale, but I do understand that many choose to believe in those. I've researched plenty into 'possession' and 'exorcism' -- not impressed. It's a matter for psychologists.

 

[Gene]

I get to sentences that begin:

"we at Mind Rape Musick are deeply saddened this has happened,…"

and I just have to stop reading.

http://ycsmnews.rehashweb.com/forum/

GXM, if that bothers you, you might want to find another thead. Some of the videos I have seen from this crew, make that look statement look like sunday school stuff.

This subject material is not for the faint hearted.

 

[Nessa]

Absolutely...I feel bad for all concerned in this tragedy. Not knowing the family personally or seeing any medical/psych records on this case, my comments are made solely on knowing very little. People act differently in situations. I'm having the most trouble understanding the father taking them to that kind of concert. In a sense, it seems like he condones it by doing that. However, it may also be true that he would rather take them himself than her get there some other way. A situation I myself never want to be in personally. I am deeply saddened by many aspects of this case.

 

[gxm]

This is a victim friendly site. Emma 's parents are murder victims. IMO some of the comments about their parenting skills come across as blaming the victim(s). Emma's dad drove her and her friends to an out-of-state concert. He sounds like a very concerned and attentive parent to me. But that's beside the point. Let's discuss the case please.

 

[strach304]

Which one is Emma? The black hair?

 

[gxm]

GXM, if that bothers you, you might want to find another thead. Some of the videos I have seen from this crew, make that look statement look like sunday school stuff.

This subject material is not for the faint hearted.

I'm going to hang in here. I'm from Virginia and this case is too close to home not to follow. I rarely watch video, prefer reading for some reason, so that will be a good thing on this case.

It's really the contradiction between stated philosophy and the stated sentiments that gives me pause. These folks embrace violence and then express such heartfelt condolences. I saw the "Femicide" graphic and thought that this is what happens when "artists" glamorize violence for no apparent reason except for the thrill of it. Some sick twist will come along and take the message seriously. Violence isn't so much fun now is it? I sure hope the penny drops for some of these kids.

 

[Gene]

Getting back to the murder, one of the issues that I think is key is who died when?

This article and the timeline on the first page of this thread, give alot of insite:

http://www2.newsadvance.com/lna/new...horrorcore_music_in_farmville_slayings/19659/

"At normal room temperature, a body would not start to smell until about 48 hours after death, suggesting that at least one of the victims died Wednesday (Sept 16) or earlier." Remember that the police came to visit on Sept 17 and didnt smell anything. So, the murders probably didnt happen much before September 15.

But looking at the timeline, Emma's last Myspace logon was Sept 14 (mood blazenBamBooka with a "frown" icon), Melanie's last Myspace logon was Sept 15 (mood:havin a blast with "hearts" icon).

Considering this information, when do you think that the murders took place and in what order?