VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #4

[PAXIMUS]

....i only kill mosquitos,lol,spiders and roaches and such I take outside....i try to be a vegan,but everything good has milk and eggs and stuff in it and meat tastes too damn good,but anyways I think sam and emma and mel where in it for completely different reasons,i think sam was full of rage and hate for a long time because of how he grew up,i think emma was just bored growing up in farmvilleand being homeschooled and stuff and i heard mel's mom was a writer and mel loved her parents and i assume they were liberal and very much into mel being an individual and finding her own path...i like her profiles aside from the naziism.....

This sounds right to me.

 

[claudicici]

At heart I am an anarchist so it is very difficult for me to advocate in favor of locking people up. However, we dont live in la la land and this isnt a utopian fantasy, its the real world and things arent perfect and that being the case I have to agree that Sam needs to be removed from society so that he cannot harm others, as a libertarian and anarchist that is what I believe above all is that we should all be free to do as we choose as long as we dont harm others, when we bring harm to others for any reason beyond self defense or diminished mental capacity then people need to come together and deal with that person, but under NO circumstance am I willing to allow the STATE the authority and power to decide who should live and who should die. Put him in prison but no death penalty. I will gladly pay my share of taxes to feed him if it means not giving the ****ing government any more power than it already has.

i agree,but don't you think after all people like sam could be of value to society if they would study them instead of just feeding them and letting them back out?

 

[wadahoot]

All girls their age are "bi" these days.

You can tell how annoyed it makes us old dykes. :wink:

I had to chuckle at this tapu! When my son was in high school, he was into theater and most of that crowd is ... well ... interesting! Don't get me wrong, I love theater people; they are just ummm themselves!

Backstage, where the kids were waiting to go on a bunch of the girls were hanging out for the everyone on stage dance scene. Of course, they were hugging and kissing each other, with an eye on me to see what I would do. Finally, exasperated that I wasn't reacting, they called me over and said that they didn't mean to shock me and/or offend me (yeah, right!). I laughed and said that I grew up in a very liberal college town in the 70s ... there is nothing that shocks me! After that, they quit harassing me at other times and kinda accepted me, since I was 'cool' with their behavior. Kids.

 

[PAXIMUS]

i agree,but don't you think after all people like sam could be of value to society if they would study them instead of just feeding them and letting them back out?

Sure, they should do more psychological studies on criminals, the nazis used to actually cut the brains out of criminals and study them to see what made them different than the rest of us, I certainly wouldnt go that far but I think that there is some value to be found in studying the criminal mind and it is largely why I study these cases, I am interested in how these people think and why they do what they do.

 

[wadahoot]

I find it strange that he is not in anyone's STFW Photos at all, not one single photo of him anywhere..very very odd to me??

I think one of Sick's quotes was that Sam was off and quiet through the concert, but that he (Sick) didn't think anything was really wrong ... but he was surprised that Sam & Emma weren't hanging together. And then there's the other report that Sam was with another girl all night (was that you Pixy?).

eta: Or, he was busy takin' care of business, taking lots of pix, so that he could be a good diciple and get a free CD. :::tongue in cheek:::

 

[wadahoot]

I'm sure these marginal types didn't have anything like this, but just fyi: there are services that will go in after you've died and wrap up all your online affairs. Not sure how it works, but there ya go.

Yep, I've read of those, too, tapu.
Also there's a website, My Death Space, where old ones are stored http://www.mydeathspace.com/

 

[PAXIMUS]

I had to chuckle at this tapu! When my son was in high school, he was into theater and most of that crowd is ... well ... interesting! Don't get me wrong, I love theater people; they are just ummm themselves!

Backstage, where the kids were waiting to go on a bunch of the girls were hanging out for the everyone on stage dance scene. Of course, they were hugging and kissing each other, with an eye on me to see what I would do. Finally, exasperated that I wasn't reacting, they called me over and said that they didn't mean to shock me and/or offend me (yeah, right!). I laughed and said that I grew up in a very liberal college town in the 70s ... there is nothing that shocks me! After that, they quit harassing me at other times and kinda accepted me, since I was 'cool' with their behavior. Kids.

I dont think kids have changed much, in the 50s Elvis was devil music, then it was the Beatles and Kiss and Judas Priest in my time in the 80s, we were out screwin drinkin and doin drugs and up to no good back then too just like most of them now, I turned out fine, some didnt, same as today.

 

[ziggy]

Thats a Ball-peen hammer for those that dont know and indeed they do come in various sizes. The Ball-peen hammer is THE FAVORITE weapon of outlaw biker gangs like Hells Angels etc and has been for years, many of them even wear a patch depicting one on their leather jackets. They can do a lot of damage.

Ouch. Seems like the best choice to me. You can swing it faster, the element of surprise is there - bam, quick. Easy to conceal if you walk up on someone. You could easily knock someone out or kill them with a head blow. Now the maul, that is the overkill in my book. I think he had to actually go outside and get that maul and bring it in. The more I think about it the more malice aforethought I get.

 

[wadahoot]

Excellent points. I really do not know how Sam's and Emma's etc myspace pages all poofed after the murders I sort of just assumed maybe myspace got word of the situation and removed the sites but why would they do that chances are they wouldnt even know. So it is a good question, who took down Emma's stuff since she is now dead and all of her family also? I suppose Sam's sister took his stuff down.

I guess I assumed that MySpace was complying w/LE, but would LE make them take them down? Not sure.
Is anyone up for calling LE in Farmville to let them know there are lots more sites with (especially Mel's) pages? Wouldn't you think they would want to know?

With NO rudeness intended, I have to wonder if cops in a small town are prepared with the staff with enough knowledge to do forensic computer stuff. I know this has been answered before, but what other LE are involved in this case, please?

 

[wadahoot]

Sarah McCroskey says her brother's friends told her that he and Emma had had some kind of falling out at the concert.
http://cbs5.com/crime/syko.sam.rapper.2.1210315.html

LOVED this comment at the bottom of the above article

By SwampFox-82nd posted Sun Sep 27 2009 9:44:57 AM
There's a time for fun and games. These morons are due for a a$$-whipping -- BIG TIME. They scream about death and the glories of gore. Well, punks, I served in the 82nd Airborne Division and I have seen more death and gore unlike these punks. To every horror rapper, stick your face in front of me, and I'll send you mouth home in a body bag. Do you understand me, punks?

:thumb:

 

[ziggy]

Pax and Danger should write a book about this case. I was sifting through the search warrants, UHghen (as Forrest Gump would say) and I noticed a thumb drive with the University logo on it...now what if Debra was researching and it's all in her computer and files? Her angle would make the most incredibly interesting story. I think that's why I'm drawn to it, you have the professor of criminal studies, the Pastor for gosh sakes, the beautiful but troubled self proclaimed Satanist daughter, online hook up, horrorcore, the Syko Sam alter ego, the SKR/WIR connection and mass murder. Geez. No wonder. But seriously, someone is going to write this book. You have a head start. Of course some people squirm at the thought of profiting from a tragedy, but you could always donate a portion of profits to some worthy cause like Rimer, LOL, JK.

 

[ziggy]

By SwampFox-82nd posted Sun Sep 27 2009 9:44:57 AM
There's a time for fun and games. These morons are due for a a$$-whipping -- BIG TIME. They scream about death and the glories of gore. Well, punks, I served in the 82nd Airborne Division and I have seen more death and gore unlike these punks. To every horror rapper, stick your face in front of me, and I'll send you mouth home in a body bag. Do you understand me, punks?

Why do I love that so? It's all Dirty Harry and real men with values AND testosterone who are not afraid to use it.

 

[wadahoot]

I DON'T GO TO CHICK FLICKS...why??? Because they are full of sad, freaking tragic crap that I've dealt with in my life - sorrow, and so I already know first hand about how that feels and I never want to go see someone else go through it in a movie.

I'm the same x2 ... I didn't go see THE movie of the decade, Titanic. I figured I already knew what happened, it was gonna be hella sad and I didn't want to get depressed (especially about those poor people in 3rd class). And yes, I'm a weenie and proud of it! :curtsey:

 

[wadahoot]

i think since parents aren't doing their job anymore,schools should..why aren't there classes on

I know, I know, I'm such a Mom ... but my son's elementary school (and then middle school to some extent) really stressed to the kids how to grow into good people. This is what they learned, through daily talks, puppet shows, stories, etc.

Core Set of Life Skills

Character Traits
Cooperation – to work together
Integrity – to do what is right
Perseverance – to keep at it
Respect – to be polite and show consideration of others
Responsibility – to take care of yourself and be trusted to do what needs to be done

Definitions of Life Skills
Caring – to feel and show concern for others
Common Sense – to make good choices
Cooperation – to work together
Courage – to be brave; to act according to one’s beliefs despite fear of adverse consequences
Curiosity – to want to find out and learn about things
Effort – to try your hardest
Flexibility – to change plans without complaining
Friendship – to make and keep a friend
Initiative – to do something because it needs to be done
Integrity – to do what is right
Organization – to plan and keep things ready to use; to keep things orderly
Patience – to wait calmly for someone or something
Perseverance – to keep at it
Pride – to feel good about doing your personal best
Problem Solving – to find a way to take care of a problem
Resourcefulness – to have good and creative ideas for getting things done
Respect – to be polite and show consideration for others
Responsibility – to take care of yourself and be trusted to do what needs to be done
Sense of Humor – to laugh and have fun without hurting others

Lifelong Guidelines
Trustworthiness – to act in a manner that makes one worthy of trust and confidence
Truthfulness – to be honest about things and feelings with oneself and others
Active Listening – to listen with the intention of understanding what the speaker intends to communicate
No Put-Downs – to never use words, actions, and/or body language that degrade, humiliate, dishonor others
Personal Best – to do one’s best given the circumstances and available resources

Although I had my own defination for Integrity: Doing the right thing, even if no one is watching :angel:

Now, HOW do we get these every-day lifeskills into the heads of more children?!?! And, yes, to some extent it worked with my kid ... he's 21 now and if he starts to smart-mouth or what ever, all I have to do is ask him to think about his Lifeskills, and it usually illicits a grin and better behavior! :dance:

 

[onceuponapriori]

Greetings sleuthers.

I think we're reading too much into the sharpies. I'm thinking they either had, ahem, matter on them or they were taken from the house to determine whether they were used in writing the note the Mel.

Andres, I am having a terrible time trying to keep up. I get overly busy with my startup and end up needing to stay away for a few days. When I return, there are 20 more pages of messages So I hope you'll forgive me asking: how do we know that the letter/note was to Mel? I know there was speculation that her father might have left a note for her with Sam, but has that been established beyond mere speculation? Maybe we are thinking of different notes, though I admit it is very likely that I missed a followup message after the first post mentioning the note/letter. On the other hand, there is certainly nothing wrong with speculation!

I ask because I was speculating otherwise :-D One possible explanation for (one of?) the handwritten note(s) was that Sam wrote it as part of a bumbling attempt at alibi. He mentioned to some driver or another that he waited for his girlfriend to fall asleep and left before she awoke. Perhaps that conversation combined with a phony goodbye note, ala "Sorry Emma, I love you but it's not working out. I had to leave thx for the hospitality <333333333" was meant to introduce reasonable doubt regarding his involvement in her murder.

Some have already speculated that his call to the police about spooky sounds in the basement might have been an attempt at misdirection as well. To be clear, I am not insinuating that this would be a sensible move; rather, it seems a pretty hopeless act. But he was almost certainly desperate at one point or another, and he might have become convinced that "it's just like I told that driver" + "scary sounds in the basement, after all if I murdered them OF COURSE I wouldn't call the cops" + "see, I even left a bittersweet goodbye note" was better than nothing.

If the police wanted to show that the note (and, perhaps by implication, his other attempts at establishing doubt) should be not given credence, they might want to link the note to the sharpies that were found, especially if said sharpies might be linked to trace blood evidence. Should they be able to establish such a link, it would evidence the theory that he wrote the note only after the poor victims had been murdered.

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All, a side note regarding the opiates found on the scene:

People often forget that oxycodone is a very, very common opiate that is found in many different strengths and configurations. The street term "oxies" almost always refers to either 30mg immediate release oxycodone (often called "blues" because of the color and/or "roxies" after the most common brand name) or 80mg time-released oxycodone (aka "oxycontin", also a brand eponym.) The pills mentioned in the report are less likely to result in a "extreme" addiction and/or abuse because they were: 1) <= 10mg methinks, and -- more importantly -- 2) mixed with large amounts of tylenol. The tylenol (err acetaminophen, damn these brand eponyms!) frustrates abuse in several ways, among the most effective of which are: 1) they make it far more difficult to ingest the substance using a more short-acting and potent (ergo, more addictive) delivery system (eg, smoking or injecting; even snorting a pile of tylenol should be far more difficult than snorting a few mg of oxycodone), and 2) when taken orally in sufficiently high quantity and over large periods of time they can do significant damage to the liver and kidneys, and even cause organ pain shortly after intake, which of course serves to disincentivize significant overuse.

All that said, people do sometimes abuse and develop dependency and/or addiction to 10mg and even 5mg percocets (another brand eponym; ie, oxycodone + acetaminophen.) But that is not what most people mean when they use the term "oxies", and, eg, it should definitely not be surprising to learn that a patient was driving while using percocet (or even 30mg oxycodone for that matter, depending on circumstances). Their use should not suggest the presence of addiction or a "drug problem", per se.


-----

All, thanks for all of the interesting hypothesizing and speculation. I feel like I am reading a (great, sad, thrilling) novel when I visit this site. I just hope that the truth is soon uncovered and that those responsible suffer the proper and just punishment for their crimes.

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p.s. Let me go ahead and ruin an otherwise perfectly fine post by mentioning that I've never seen that acronym "IANAL" before. I looked it up and now know its meaning, so thanks for that, but am I the only person above the age of 12 that chortles when I see it because I can't help but to imagine an Apple ad for a new and interesting mac peripheral?

 

[blouAngel]

:sick:
Any ball-peen hammer I've seen around a home is a pretty small thing ... such that, when I was a kid, that was 'my' hammer in the basement workshop. I think it would be pretty difficult to kill someone with one in the first few hits (unless hitting target spots, I suppose). I vote the maul.

The problem I have with the maul as murder weapon doesn't have anything to do with whether Sam could swing it. It's not the swing that I think he couldn't handle, although I doubt if he could swing it with any accuracy or actually split wood with it, he could certainly do some serious damage to any part of a person. The recovery time is the issue. It seems to me that if an attacker were attempting to kill 3 different people, speed of attack would be very important. Recovery time after a blow would be critical if speed of attack were necessary.

Look at a maul and how it is used. A typical maul is about 3' long with a straight wooden handle and a 5 to 8 lb. iron or steel wedge shaped head on one end. If it were held by the end away from the head, there would be 24 foot pounds of torque to resist. That's a considerable amount and even someone with very very strong wrist is unlikely to be able to do it and couldn't swing it that way.

To overcome the forces working against him, a user starts a swing with one hand near the end away from the head and the other just below the head. He or she pulls the head close to the body, pushes up and lets the head fall forward while sliding the head hand towards the other. The head hand is pushing and the other is pulling and that leverage helps to accelerate the head along with the acceleration due to gravity. As the hands get closer together, the head reaches maximum acceleration just before impact.

The head stops relatively abruptly with a great deal of force since force = acceleration x mass and the acceleration which just took place over about 2-3 seconds has been decelerated in a tiny fraction of a second. At that point, the user is back to the position of having both hands at the end and being out of control of the other end. To make things worse, the users arms are extended and the wrists are rotated forward, putting him/her at maximum disadvantage in terms of leverage and the head may be stuck in something (use your imagination here). The complete cycle depends on how quickly the user can then move back into position to lift and swing again and the strength of the user and muscle fatigue have to be factored in. Most non-professionals can hardly repeatedly swing a 22oz. framing hammer with a handle length of 16-18" (just over 2 foot pounds of torque) and hitting nails even helps since the hammer bounces to some extent rather than being stuck.

I just don't think Sam had it in him to attack in the first round with a maul. I may well be proven to be wrong I know, but compare Sam to Kuriuz for example. Pixy noted that he is much more appealing than Sam. Part of that is no doubt his blue eyes, but his upright posture and broad round muscular shoulders are a significant part of it and they are in stark contrast to Sam's. The question of how long it took for Sam to lose his appeal upon arrival in Richmond was raised earlier and the general conclusion was that happened almost instantly. Not bathing probably played a role, but that immediate reaction is as much as anything related to body language and posture which are apparent even in the pictures the people making those comment have seen and been influenced by.

Sam may have had shackles on his feet when he made the walk up to the "Jesus told me to" comment, but regardless, just look at his body form, the way his legs move and his shoulders. He is neither strong nor fit, that shows over and over in photos of him, and makes sense for a kid who spends all of his time in a garage listening to awful music. I do however think he could do some serious damage with a ball-peen especially with too much caffeine surging through his system. I've got 4 different sizes in my basement right now, and I don't think anyone here would let me hit them in the head with the smallest. The ball-peen is close to the hatchet in form, grip, and size, and we know Sam had a thing for hatchets. Also, the maul is consistent if I read correctly. All victims were hit with the maul, but only Mr. Neiderbrock was killed with the chunk of wood? Please correct me if any reliable sources say otherwise. That leads me to believe that the maul was used in round 2 and not round 1. If the maul wasn't used on Mr. Neiderbrock, then that leads to a few other questions.

Sorry for such a long post, but I just wanted to make my reasoning clear whether it convinces anyone else or not.

 

[wadahoot]

Once Upon a Priori - I'm quite sure (but, of course, can't find the link right now) that the list of what was taken by LE from the home specified that the note on the kitchen table was to Mel.

 

[gxm]

I believe all of the bodies were found in the mother in law area. This area could be shut off from the rest of the house. The odor could be contained more so there. Visitors could come and go and no one would have any idea.

The pastor's body has been reported as being found "upstairs." If all of the bodies were found in the addition, then there would have to be an upstairs or loft area in that part of the house. Although it's feasible that the cops checked the loft area first, you'd think they would have cleared the downstairs level beforehand. This is such a confusing case. I wish LE would give us more facts.

ETA: I'm actually wondering if the pastor wasn't found in the upstairs of the main house. If the addition has a loft area, why would the pastor have gone up there? And of all the victims he weighed the most so I doubt Sam would have carried him up there.

 

[gxm]

We need for somebody to make some floorplan type sketches....



That seems good, Zig. I guess Mark's body was most likely in the breezeway.

The pastor's body was found in a "upstairs room". Perhaps he was looking for Debra and had gone upstairs to her study or bedroom? (Remember that a pair of stained eyeglasses was found in "one of the bedrooms.") Which is odd because if he was looking for Mel, then he should have gone to Emma's room first.

bolding by me:

Three of the four bodies were found in a downstairs bedroom, the source and court documents said. The other was found in a room upstairs. Authorities believe it is plausible that one or more of the victims might have been attacked while asleep, but they don’t know that for sure, the source said. McCroskey has given no statement to police.

source link:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/n...._man_indicted_for_farmville_killings/303376/

And I'm guessing that Debra was killed in the "den" area, perhaps that's the breezeway. It would have been easy for Sam to move her into Debra's room from there.

The documents indicate all three female victims were found in one bedroom.

But evidence from the attacks were found in other rooms. In the den alone, for example, investigators found paper towels with red stains under a chair and under the rug, a stained blue sundress under a chair and a chunk of hair. In one of the bedrooms, investigators found stains on a chair and stained eyeglasses on the floor.

source link:
http://www.wtvr.com/news/wtvr-farmville-indictments-continued,0,1321614.story

So I'm guessing (for now) that the girls were killed first, while they slept in Emma's room, Debra was killed in the den/breezeway when she went to check in on the kids, and the pastor was killed upstairs when he was searching for Debra to give him some answers about Mel.

 

[Wes]

Excellent points. I really do not know how Sam's and Emma's etc myspace pages all poofed after the murders I sort of just assumed maybe myspace got word of the situation and removed the sites but why would they do that chances are they wouldnt even know. So it is a good question, who took down Emma's stuff since she is now dead and all of her family also? I suppose Sam's sister took his stuff down.

I always figured that was the Tom's job. :waitasec: