VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #9

[Samantharock]

police release wanted poster of JM

Updated Sans SSN lol sry

 

[zapped]

The poster states the mugshot/photo was taken on Friday. Unless he just happened to update his photo ID for his employer/DMV, I doubt it would be from them?

Given that the person who made this poster originally included his social security number, I dont have much confidence in their abilities ATM.

The photo date could be nothing more than the date this poster was started on.

 

[letsgostate05]

He was the lady person seen with a missing girl. That's evidence. And he won't talk. That's suspicious.

(BBM) I'm having a really crappy day, I know it's a typo but thank you for the laugh, I needed it! :laughing:

 

[expat79]

Wasn't the victim in the Fairfax assault also a foreign national (I wanna say India or Pakistan) who needed an interpreter?

 

[sonicfanaticsmommy]

Fwiw, the last time I looked at JM's Facebook, there were 4 comments on the pic of the black square, just friends saying they love him and all that..... Today, there are only 2 comments.

 

[margarita25]

Can we stop talking about the gloves? If they were evidence, they would have been taken out of the apartment in a paper bag/evidence bag. They are obviously the LE's gloves.

Just seeing this, lol (Sorry, I was in my dark bathroom conducting forensic analysis haha)

FTR, I remember a case where LE carried out evidence without gloves, and I commented on it. Maybe Hailey Owens' case?? Not saying this is the case here, just sayin, lol.

 

[HarvestMoon]

He is a wanted man

Parker Slaybaugh @Parker8News
BREAKING: WANTED Poster for Jesse Matthew has just been released. #HannahGraham
PLEASE RT THIS PHOTO http://t.co/Bdlo0816CY
4:16am - 23 Sep 14

Wanted, for speeding away ?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Are there even enough possible topics to break into a forum? The case might be active, but I don't think it is that complex. I guess you could have threads about:

-Longo's way of handling the case
-People who knew JM
-Camera footage
-Should JM turn himself in/talk to LE/discussion

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

Given that the person who made this poster originally included his social security number, I dont have much confidence in their abilities ATM.

The photo date could be nothing more than the date this poster was started on.

Very good point.

 

[ClueingForLooks]

If they want to be aggressive with JM, fine. But is anyone else worried that other avenues of investigation are drying up while they focus on one guy?

HG had the highly focused attention of TWO men that night. TWO men followed her right before she disappeared. WG is the only one we know to definitely be a stranger to her (if we are to believe him). He may have been in collusion with JM or he may have waited until JM left her alone (HG and JM weren't together in the area for hours, only about 20 mins). Or there may have been someone else involved.

If she is still alive and is being held captive somewhere (very possible since there's no body yet and they've searched most of the town), the trail might be getting cold. This is what's making me crazy.

Also, should her friends be 100% trusted? I mean just for now, for the sake of finding the truth, shouldn't their words be regarded with some skepticism?

Just thinking out loud here.

 

[GhostGhost]

'
On the Felony, I belive there were 5 continuances. That's what we see around here when courtroom veterans want to beat a rap. The witness misses work each time and has to pay to park, and the whole hassle. Just looks suspicious.

He has been convicted of non-traffic related misdemeanors. He had a trial, he had a criminal lawyer, and a witness showed up and he was convicted of trespassing after warning.

'

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Jmo this was a one person crime, seemingly/possibly committed by JM. No ring, no gang, no posse, etc
It is textbook to me of a casual pick-up that probably ended up as a sexual assault and murder. Whether he has done it before, I am not so sure. He certainly isn't very good at keeping a low profile as far as the night of this crime, the stand-out car, being seen everywhere, etc.
And now he is on the run, apparently.

Just get him situated behind bars on whatever charges are possible at this point and concentrate on evidence and searching. Forget about him "chatting" with LE. That ship has sailed.

Jmo

This reminds me a lot of the case out of NY a few years back. The young female victim was intoxicated and the guy worked at the bar as a bouncer. He pretended he was going to take her home but instead took her to his place, tied her up repeatedly raped her, and then murdered her. It was a crime of opportunity and I imagine this one was too.

IMO

 

[eileenhawkeye]

IMO....JM is going to be charged with first degree, capital murder. It doesn't matter whether it was an accident, or unintentional. They are going for the DP.

 

[Skigirl]

Are there even enough possible topics to break into a forum? The case might be active, but I don't think it is that complex. I guess you could have threads about:

-Longo's way of handling the case
-People who knew JM
-Camera footage
-Should JM turn himself in/talk to LE/discussion

I would add to this:
- Information about JM (and his criminal record so we can weed out his father and another local man of a very similar name)
- Timeline/Hannah's movements and sightings
- Chat about similarities (or not) to MH

 

[cluciano63]

sitting on hands :gaah: waiting for new thread, and one which will be a forum with subjects being split out as we are NOW finally over 1,000 again.

I cannot follow everything and trying to catch up and find myself skipping 100's of posts. And I missed sooooooooooo much doing so.

Please please please please mods break this into a forum with sub-threads. raying:

It's been less than 11 hours and we are at 1,123 posts, and just too fast to follow and I've missed too much. Break out's please for topics mods! IMHO

Ugh, I hate forums, unless we can have a general thread...posts slow down a lot...jmo

 

[Sjm_qc]

I am having arguments with myself ... Anyone else doing the same?
Argument 1. They seem to be zeroing in on one person, seem to be vilifying one person without apparent evidence.
Argument 2. If this was my child and he was the last person known to be with her "before she disappeared off the face of the Earth" I damn sure would want the same aggressive investigation being done! Maybe if more investigations were so transparent about their opinions than more people would come forward and more perpetrators of crimes would be caught

I have been having the same internal argument. I think it's possible to feel both things -- that if you were a family member you would feel and think one thing and that if you're a person with no tie to the case, who's generally concerned with fairness, you might feel a different way.

ETA: I also sometimes look at it from the perspective of her family and then his. If I were her family, I'd want the biggest circus and the most possible pressure brought on him to bear; if I were his family, I'd want him to be treated fairly by the police, the media, and the public.

"The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function." - F. Scott Fitzgerald

ITA with both of you.

I can make myself a case for LJ not talking to police because he knows he's innocent, already said all he knows Friday when they came to search his car/condo (this fits with him going voluntarily to police station Saturday, but not talking after consulting a lawyer), but is scared he can't prove it.

I can also make myself case for not talking because guilty of *something*, in which circumstances, I don't understand why he went to police Saturday.

The above is, of course, pure speculation, & JMO.

I'm also intrigued by the wanted poster photo dated Friday.

I was VERY uncomfortable after watching the presser yesterday, & very bothered by Chief Longo's presentation, although up until then I've been a bit of a "fangirl". I'd like to thank those who provided links to the Chief's bio, which now leave me more confused than ever, lol. He has incredible credentials, so now I'm back to wondering why he's taken this route...

Oh, & the darn gloves? While I firmly believe they're a red (black ?!) herring & belong to LE, meh, I have boxes at home & in the car. Mechanicking, cleaning, handling raw meat, hair dying, handling cat litter .....

 

[bessie]

Heads Up!

New thread is coming soon. This one will close in about ten minutes.

Thank you!

 

[blefuscu]

This is what you said "Everyone is saying "what if he isn't guilty?" Hang on one second, what if he is the person who disappeared Hannah? Why are people so sure this man didn't hurt Hannah? I don't know one way or the other but there are so many people shouting about this guy not being involved. Well he is involved, inasmuch as he's the last person seen with Hannah and he won't co-operate.

My response was asking you to back up your specific comments - where you see people "so sure this man didn't hurt Hannah" and "so many people shouting about this guy not being involved". Just point me to some of these "so many people" who are shouting that JM isn't involved.

Ok. I'll correct myself.

For the people saying "what if he didn't do it?", what makes you feel he didn't?

Better?

 

[jamicat]

I never claimed anyone said that they were "sure" he wasn't guilty. I said people are saying "what if he isn't guilty?" I'm asking, and maybe I phrased it clumsily, what it is that makes them doubt his involvement? Because I don't know if he is guilty or innocent but I can see exactly why LE are after him. People have talked about him suing police if he's innocent. If he's guilty though they have played it right.

First of all, I've been consistent in saying that it does not look good for JM. However, it is very important to note that the police do NOT have sufficient grounds to arrest him in this case and to question him. Actually, if JM is guilty, and proper protocol was not followed, he could walk. It's very important for LE to do things by the book. Many, many cases are dismissed, or evidence can't be used, or something is compromised because LE fouled it up by doing something technical that stepped over the line of a person's rights. Happens all of the time. So guilty or innocent, LE has do to things the right way. Even when found guilty, cases have been overturned on appeal because of overzealous LE who forget that just bringing in the perp is not the end of the matter. There is a trial, and LE has to have performed ethically and by the law. So it's not a matter of him suing the police if he's innocent that concerns me, it's if the case is compromised if he is guility and the police stepped over ethical lines and if JM is innocent and is terribly harmed by LE jumping the gun. Gestapo techniques supported by the mediaand population make it dangerous for all of us. ANyone could be next--stop and give someone in distress a hand, caught on camera, and you both go off camera right afterwards, that somoen disappears and you are the last known person to have seen her--no alibi. You don't want LE to be permitted to cross certain lines when investigating. They do NOT tend to be very smart or ethical IMO.

Frankly without all of these cameras, they wouldn't even be as far as they are, and I'm seeing this more and more with these cases. They don't do too well with their own investigation and brains. They depend on cameras and on people coming in and sharing info with them. To me it was shocking that the Leiby Kletzky case was only broken when it was due to private citizens getting on the ball, not police work. Had they waited for LE, the perp likely would have been rid of the evidence. So when police cross lines they should not, they risk scaring and offending those who could help them in the future.

I personally see no good explanations for JM's situation, and LE needs to step up and find some evidence. They are trying to strong arm and coerce someone instead of doing the brainwork, detective work they should and a lot of this is backfiring on them.

 

[Kas80]

I do think it's a good idea for them to go national with the investigation. There were many OOT people there that weekend due to the Louisville game and a reunion (mentioned in an earlier thread). That means both more potential witnesses that may not have been aware they should come forward and also a possibility that whomever made her disappear was an OOT person. You never know.