VA VA - Michael, 50, Mary, 36, & Jennifer Short, 9, Bassett, 15 Aug 2002
- Thread starter Doyle
- Start date
It's hard to believe anyone could get past the F.B.I., those guys are as smart as can be. It must be tough to have to have either D.N.A. or a confession. By a preponderance of the evidence, Bowman is as guilty as O.J.
God parted the Red Sea, I hope he does a modern miracle here. Pray.
God parted the Red Sea, I hope he does a modern miracle here. Pray.
I just wrote the F.B.I. in Greensboro with a theory of mine. If anything pans out, I'll let you guys know. Despite the loss of Jennifer, it really hurts my pride to know a redneck or two is getting away with this. It's like Hee-Haw at the Metropolitan Opera. :boohoo:
curious_mom
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I have only been visiting the websleuth community since the dissapearance of Taylor Behl. I have learned a great deal about this community and honestly think there are some great websleuths here. I was really surprised when I went to do a search here for Jennifer Short, and found there were other's who remember this crime.
I am only about 10 minutes from where the deaths of Jennifer's parents were, and about 20 minutes from where her body was found. I have family that could almost throw a rock at the short house from their house. My husband and I were on one of the very first search teams dispatched to look for Jennifer after her parents were found. I also have a son that had played on a baseball team against Jennifer Short, and at that time, I was coaching little league sports, so I very well remember seeing this lovely girl. To say this has been a very troubling case in our area is an understatement, at least for those that I know.
I don't have any inside information about the case, only what has been in print, but I thought I would give a little inside information about our area in hopes that some of you that have been in this websleuthing community might can give me some information about other predators that you know about. This area is not that big of a community, but it is very spread out. The area that the father and mother were killed in was on one of our major highways, 220. This is a very heavily travelled road, and it also leads to the area where Jennifer's body was found. But given the fact of the exact location of Jennifer's body, it appears that someone would almost have to had knowledge of that particular area in order to have left her body there. It is not a place that someone would usually just happen upon as it is several turns off any main road.
The area that the short murders were committed in, has long been an area that has been known as the "moonshine capital of the world". We don't have that many serious crimes that are not solved, and our lead investigator, Kimmie Nester is a top notch detective who has worked this case from day one, and I'm sure will not rest until it is solved, however long it takes. I cannot say much about the investigators in Rockingham county where Jennifer's body was found. Our area has been one of a very high unemployment rate for several years due to most of our manufacturing being moved to Mexico and related places because of the North American Trade Agreement. We have been compared in recent years to having a crime rate equal to that of NY, if looking at demographics, and alot of criminals that are arrested here seem to have some link with NY.
I have always sort of thought that the main person of interest in this case "could" have something to do with it all, but I've never been fully sure. I think there were way to many concidences connecting him to the case, and no evidence to prove any of it. As of this time, we don't get many updates on the case, although there was recently a memorial bike ride in honor of Jennifer Short which was a huge success. I do know that there was alot of media attention in the beginning, but as the case became colder, so did the media attention, which is a shame. The family does not have the resources to keep this case in the limelight, or to place a big reward, because they mostly had to sell everything they could in order to pay for the funeral expenses.
Ok, now my questions. Can any of you think of any major criminal, serial killer, etc, that was anywhere near this area? I have researched serial killer Joseph Edward Duncan as a possibility, and really cannot find any sort of connection, as all of his activities seemed to be out west. I have also done some research on a child molester, John Dallas Lockhart, an ohio resident who was accused of raping a 4 month old baby. I cannot find any link to him either. These are the only 2 serial killers that come to my mind, but since I am new to all of this, I thought instead of reading through the tons of other cases discussed in this forum, I would start out by asking for a heads up from some of you.
I would love to bring this case back into the limelight and am trying to work on a website to try and get it back into the faces of people somehow. I don't think it is an unsolvable case, I just think it lost it's attraction at the early stages to most of the media, and for that reason alone, no new information has been forthcoming. This is a case that is so different to follow. The killing of 2 parents, the abduction and killing of a little girl, no evidence of burglery, the cutting of a phone line so no calls could be placed during the crimes. No real suspects, and really, we don't know if this was a killing to abduct a little girl or just a random act that took it's own turn of events and led to Jennifer's abduction and killing. It just doesn't follow any certain patten of any other crimes that I have been looking at.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any leads to possible other serial killier or well know pedifiles would be greatly appreciated. I intend to spend a great deal of time looking into this whole case to see if I can find anything that might give it a reason to come back into the limelight.
This is a link that provides information about where exactly highway 220 runs thru and to, which might help with your memory of known criminals in any of these areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Highway_220#Major_cities
I am only about 10 minutes from where the deaths of Jennifer's parents were, and about 20 minutes from where her body was found. I have family that could almost throw a rock at the short house from their house. My husband and I were on one of the very first search teams dispatched to look for Jennifer after her parents were found. I also have a son that had played on a baseball team against Jennifer Short, and at that time, I was coaching little league sports, so I very well remember seeing this lovely girl. To say this has been a very troubling case in our area is an understatement, at least for those that I know.
I don't have any inside information about the case, only what has been in print, but I thought I would give a little inside information about our area in hopes that some of you that have been in this websleuthing community might can give me some information about other predators that you know about. This area is not that big of a community, but it is very spread out. The area that the father and mother were killed in was on one of our major highways, 220. This is a very heavily travelled road, and it also leads to the area where Jennifer's body was found. But given the fact of the exact location of Jennifer's body, it appears that someone would almost have to had knowledge of that particular area in order to have left her body there. It is not a place that someone would usually just happen upon as it is several turns off any main road.
The area that the short murders were committed in, has long been an area that has been known as the "moonshine capital of the world". We don't have that many serious crimes that are not solved, and our lead investigator, Kimmie Nester is a top notch detective who has worked this case from day one, and I'm sure will not rest until it is solved, however long it takes. I cannot say much about the investigators in Rockingham county where Jennifer's body was found. Our area has been one of a very high unemployment rate for several years due to most of our manufacturing being moved to Mexico and related places because of the North American Trade Agreement. We have been compared in recent years to having a crime rate equal to that of NY, if looking at demographics, and alot of criminals that are arrested here seem to have some link with NY.
I have always sort of thought that the main person of interest in this case "could" have something to do with it all, but I've never been fully sure. I think there were way to many concidences connecting him to the case, and no evidence to prove any of it. As of this time, we don't get many updates on the case, although there was recently a memorial bike ride in honor of Jennifer Short which was a huge success. I do know that there was alot of media attention in the beginning, but as the case became colder, so did the media attention, which is a shame. The family does not have the resources to keep this case in the limelight, or to place a big reward, because they mostly had to sell everything they could in order to pay for the funeral expenses.
Ok, now my questions. Can any of you think of any major criminal, serial killer, etc, that was anywhere near this area? I have researched serial killer Joseph Edward Duncan as a possibility, and really cannot find any sort of connection, as all of his activities seemed to be out west. I have also done some research on a child molester, John Dallas Lockhart, an ohio resident who was accused of raping a 4 month old baby. I cannot find any link to him either. These are the only 2 serial killers that come to my mind, but since I am new to all of this, I thought instead of reading through the tons of other cases discussed in this forum, I would start out by asking for a heads up from some of you.
I would love to bring this case back into the limelight and am trying to work on a website to try and get it back into the faces of people somehow. I don't think it is an unsolvable case, I just think it lost it's attraction at the early stages to most of the media, and for that reason alone, no new information has been forthcoming. This is a case that is so different to follow. The killing of 2 parents, the abduction and killing of a little girl, no evidence of burglery, the cutting of a phone line so no calls could be placed during the crimes. No real suspects, and really, we don't know if this was a killing to abduct a little girl or just a random act that took it's own turn of events and led to Jennifer's abduction and killing. It just doesn't follow any certain patten of any other crimes that I have been looking at.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and any leads to possible other serial killier or well know pedifiles would be greatly appreciated. I intend to spend a great deal of time looking into this whole case to see if I can find anything that might give it a reason to come back into the limelight.
This is a link that provides information about where exactly highway 220 runs thru and to, which might help with your memory of known criminals in any of these areas: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Highway_220#Major_cities
gatetrekker44
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Joseph Duncan-he is known to have been a avid scuba diver-and evidently during the time frame of the Short murders there was some sort of scuba-related show in VA at one of the bigger venues in the area. And the fact that the person who had evidently bailed Duncan out before lives in FL and is (possibly) a pediatrician-what a scary thought!
I live in Guilford co-and I too, have done a lot of research into the case-and I sure wish I could find out the caliber of gun used to shoot the Short parents and compare to the gun found with Duncan.
We'll just keep on posting our info as we get it-but you are NOT alone in wanting a good, solid break in this case!
Bring Jennifer, Adrianna, and Maura home!
BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!
I live in Guilford co-and I too, have done a lot of research into the case-and I sure wish I could find out the caliber of gun used to shoot the Short parents and compare to the gun found with Duncan.
We'll just keep on posting our info as we get it-but you are NOT alone in wanting a good, solid break in this case!
Bring Jennifer, Adrianna, and Maura home!
BOYCOTT ARUBA!!!!
curious mom,
What child molester would murder two sleeping adults to take a child from a house? He had no idea what he would run into. The motive, according to common sense, had to be revenge. No money taken. Child butchered. This was not spontaneous. How could a serial molester know the logistics of finding two adults in separate sleeping areas and then "luck" upon the child? He went in there to murder out of anger. The completion of the act was to slaughter the child. It may sound ignorant and spiteful, but anyone who believes someone was smart enough to orchestrate this crime by knowing the logistics of who slept where, how far apart, etc., is not looking at it from a criminal's perspective.
Garrison Bowman had cause to commit this crime. He fled to Canada. Jennifer's body was found within a mile of where he lived. I know this isn't a new perspective, but he and a probable accomplice pulled this off and have lied well enough to not be indicted. This crime was dastardly, diabolical. A child molester would've stopped with the act and shot or choked the child. She was cut to pieces. A molester molests for gratification, how many respond in a way that could possibly get them caught? This was overkill, a vendetta. He did it, he knows it, the law knows it, God knows it. This was a crime of rage, a crime of self-righteousness. A random pedophile would've dumped her body close to her home, not 30 miles away, in a small pond off many country roads within a mile of Garrison Storm "murderer" Bowman.
What child molester would murder two sleeping adults to take a child from a house? He had no idea what he would run into. The motive, according to common sense, had to be revenge. No money taken. Child butchered. This was not spontaneous. How could a serial molester know the logistics of finding two adults in separate sleeping areas and then "luck" upon the child? He went in there to murder out of anger. The completion of the act was to slaughter the child. It may sound ignorant and spiteful, but anyone who believes someone was smart enough to orchestrate this crime by knowing the logistics of who slept where, how far apart, etc., is not looking at it from a criminal's perspective.
Garrison Bowman had cause to commit this crime. He fled to Canada. Jennifer's body was found within a mile of where he lived. I know this isn't a new perspective, but he and a probable accomplice pulled this off and have lied well enough to not be indicted. This crime was dastardly, diabolical. A child molester would've stopped with the act and shot or choked the child. She was cut to pieces. A molester molests for gratification, how many respond in a way that could possibly get them caught? This was overkill, a vendetta. He did it, he knows it, the law knows it, God knows it. This was a crime of rage, a crime of self-righteousness. A random pedophile would've dumped her body close to her home, not 30 miles away, in a small pond off many country roads within a mile of Garrison Storm "murderer" Bowman.
Kathleen
New Member
Well..isn't that basically what Duncan did with the Groene family, except that everybody was awake..but he was outnumbered..had been watching the place..took two children..Killed one of them..He definately has a criminal mind! Kathleen
gatetrekker44
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there are other indications that this was not a "rage" killing-first, the fact that the phone lines were cut-someone in a rage would not have taken the time to do this. Second, we know that Duncan watched his targets for days thru binoculars-it is not inconcieveable that he saw Jennifer in her yard and decided to make her a victim. The fact that the parents were shot evidently while asleep also fits the pattern that Jennifer herself was the intended target-a "rage" killer would have simply killed her in the home with the parents and left her there. I fear she was removed from the home for the purpose of sexual assault-why else take the chance on someone spotting her with an individual other than her family?
Bring Jennifer, Adrianna, and Maura home!
Boycott Aruba!
Bring Jennifer, Adrianna, and Maura home!
Boycott Aruba!
Gate,
With all due respect, and this is a cynical statement, is Bowman not sensational enough for you? I know he's old and ugly and looks like a coal miner from hell, but whomever did this chose to do it at night, cut the lines, covered their tracks. They could still be in a rage and yet sly enough to do it with the least amount of probability of getting caught. According to your logic, the person who did it should've just walked in at daylight and shot everyone up.
Reread all the facts and you'll see that Duncan was highly unlikely to have been ripped off by needing a trailer moved during that time.
With all due respect, and this is a cynical statement, is Bowman not sensational enough for you? I know he's old and ugly and looks like a coal miner from hell, but whomever did this chose to do it at night, cut the lines, covered their tracks. They could still be in a rage and yet sly enough to do it with the least amount of probability of getting caught. According to your logic, the person who did it should've just walked in at daylight and shot everyone up.
Reread all the facts and you'll see that Duncan was highly unlikely to have been ripped off by needing a trailer moved during that time.
Edited to add:Oops I just realized this got posted in the information & support area by accident - sorry. It should by rights be posted in missing/located case discussion or in cold cases perhaps.
You make some very valid points that should not be overlooked. It has been proven by killiers like J. Duncan that in some cases molester/killers will, and do, kill whole households to obtain their child victems. I haven't read much about the case so I can only comment on the few posts I have recently seen.
As to rage or not rage: I agree this does not sound like an unthinking sort of rage thing but at the same time I can see where it could possibly have been an anger related thing. But you did bring out the very duncanesque pattern to this crime. And that in a way brings up a couple of questions that have nagged at me concerning duncan's crimes. I am not convinced that in each case he needed to actually stalk a home for days before doing a deed. Once he had a plan that was tried & true he could put it into action at a moments notice if he found a home that met his needs in terms of having stumbled into a home with no nearby witnesses at the moment or one that was isolated enough to make the deed doable. (I actually have a couple of ideas I am working on as to how some victems were chosen.)
In this case though, which may have been done by someone other than duncan for all I know, I have to wonder if this method (of killing the rest of the household to abduct one or more children) is a method that easily springs to mind for certan types of killers or is this some pattern passed from con to con in prisons?
This crime sounds like it came already full blown to the scene in the mind of the killer. To me that says that either it was not his first crime using this method or that he got this "murder template" from some other source (from prison or someone that had been there? From newspapers?) and was convinced it was doable.
You also mentioned the fact that duncan knew a pediatrician that moved to florida and I will try to send you a private post with some possible thoughts about that later as I am not convinced it has anything to do with this particular case but it has some interesting possibilities elsewhere.
Without commenting on who did, and who did not, do the deed:gatetrekker44 said:
You make some very valid points that should not be overlooked. It has been proven by killiers like J. Duncan that in some cases molester/killers will, and do, kill whole households to obtain their child victems. I haven't read much about the case so I can only comment on the few posts I have recently seen.
As to rage or not rage: I agree this does not sound like an unthinking sort of rage thing but at the same time I can see where it could possibly have been an anger related thing. But you did bring out the very duncanesque pattern to this crime. And that in a way brings up a couple of questions that have nagged at me concerning duncan's crimes. I am not convinced that in each case he needed to actually stalk a home for days before doing a deed. Once he had a plan that was tried & true he could put it into action at a moments notice if he found a home that met his needs in terms of having stumbled into a home with no nearby witnesses at the moment or one that was isolated enough to make the deed doable. (I actually have a couple of ideas I am working on as to how some victems were chosen.)
In this case though, which may have been done by someone other than duncan for all I know, I have to wonder if this method (of killing the rest of the household to abduct one or more children) is a method that easily springs to mind for certan types of killers or is this some pattern passed from con to con in prisons?
This crime sounds like it came already full blown to the scene in the mind of the killer. To me that says that either it was not his first crime using this method or that he got this "murder template" from some other source (from prison or someone that had been there? From newspapers?) and was convinced it was doable.
You also mentioned the fact that duncan knew a pediatrician that moved to florida and I will try to send you a private post with some possible thoughts about that later as I am not convinced it has anything to do with this particular case but it has some interesting possibilities elsewhere.
curious_mom
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I have never heard, or read anything that said this about Jennifer. She was found when dogs were eating at or playing with parts of a scalp and the owner of the dogs informed police, and then they found parts of her body. After lying in that little pond area for a month, I would suspect that she would have been in pieces due to nature, the dogs, and other animals. But cut to pieces?stevie said:
Also, I know the concensus is that Bowman had something to do with this. But don't you find it a little odd that so many clues were found leading to Bowman, ie: maps, info about trailor being moved, he suppossedly told someone he was going to kill the trailor mover, etc, and that he hasn't been at least sent before a grand jury to try and get an indictment?
I don't know Bowman, but from what I have seen of him and heard of him, he is a rugged, backwoods kind of person. Pulling off a crime of this nature by a person such as Bowman would not be an easy thing to do IMO without forensic evidence being left of some sort, I just don't think he was that smart. I'm not ready to buy into the fact of an accomplice either, because of the way the crime happened. Mr. Short shot outside, while asleep, on his couch, somehow tells me someone knew he'd be there, and he was an easy target without waking up the rest of the household. After getting rid of Mr. Short, it would have been alot easier getting into the house for Ms. Short and Jennifer.
I agree that the area of Jennifer's remains being found near Mr. Bowman's property is highly suspect, but if Mr. Bowman was responsible, why would he take the remains close to his property, why draw that kind of attention to himself when it is very likely that he would have never become a suspect at all given the fact that he had no other ties to the Short family.
IMO, someone was setting up Mr. Bowman for the fall. The fact that I'm asking about other serial predators is only another angle I want to look at further.
For those who may be interested:
I looked and found a place in J. duncan section for case discussion of possible connection to him as a suspect.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975
And for just a discussion on the Short case itself there should be a thread somewhere also. I just haven't gotten that far yet as I skim through posts.
I looked and found a place in J. duncan section for case discussion of possible connection to him as a suspect.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975
And for just a discussion on the Short case itself there should be a thread somewhere also. I just haven't gotten that far yet as I skim through posts.
Young girl was abducted & killed and her family killed was killed and left behind in their home. To date (November/2005) the killer has not yet been brought to justice which means he could be repeating the offense elsewhere.
Here are some info links to help get us started:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/08/16/missing.girl.virginia/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64840,00.html
http://216.12.215.215/users/genxgrl/index.cgi?board=Jennifer_Short&action=display&num=1095013284
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/12/national/main525400.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60694,00.html
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=10&num=653&printer=1
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/20/se.01.html
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=74112&ran=135783
A link to the J. duncan (serial killer)forum
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975
Here are some info links to help get us started:
http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/08/16/missing.girl.virginia/
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,64840,00.html
http://216.12.215.215/users/genxgrl/index.cgi?board=Jennifer_Short&action=display&num=1095013284
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/10/12/national/main525400.shtml
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,60694,00.html
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=10&num=653&printer=1
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0208/20/se.01.html
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=74112&ran=135783
A link to the J. duncan (serial killer)forum
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975
How did Duncan then know to dump her body near Bowman's home? Answer: he didn't. You folks need to drive there and see how reclusive it is and then keep speculating that Duncan was scuba diving, broke in a house, killed two and then one later. He drove 30 miles south to a hard to find pond and dumped the body. He then put a map of the general location of the Short's house in Bowman trailer (knowing of course he wasn't there) and then put his tank and flippers back on and went swimming at Smith Mountain Lake. I say .
Either Bowman or Gary Lemons or someone either of them hired did this. Period.
Duncan had no ties to these people or the area where Jennifer's body was found.
Either Bowman or Gary Lemons or someone either of them hired did this. Period.
Duncan had no ties to these people or the area where Jennifer's body was found.
Just so we don't get in trouble for posting case discussion in the information/support thread (which was once pointed out to me as being a no no)I have started a jennifer short thread in the cold case section. I hope it helps.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31716
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31716
curious_mom
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I appreciate your doing this. I didn't know where to put my original post so I left it in the other site when I saw there were some people still posting about this case. I'll keep all postings here now 
curious_mom
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Our whole area has buzzed about this every since it happened, and it will not ever be forgotten. This kind of thing has never happened in our area before, and with the case not solved, nobody I know will forget this crime. I had a talk with my children when this happened that I didn't want to have with them until they were much older, but I guess it's always better to be safe than sorry.Zman said:
I'm posting a link to almost every article written about the Short family murders for anybody who's interested.
http://p069.ezboard.com/fjazzyrosefrm48
I recently was reading at the site you linked to and in checking one of the many source sites cited I nnoticed this "One of the many leads investigators chased down placed Jennifer Short in Rockingham County, N.C., overnight Sunday. That one also proved to be unfounded, Cassell said."curious_mom said:
http://www.martinsvillebulletin.com/Archive/2002/Aug%20'02/a082002.htm
Since I think this was later where she turned out to actaully be found (source link) I would wonder what was the source of that tip? Sounds like someone knew very well what they were talking about.
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