GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[vasportsmom]

http://www.wset.com/story/28809827/update-noah-thomas-case-both-parents-bond-hearings-today

"At the afternoon bond hearing for Ashley White, Noah's mother, White's defense team called Dennis Cales to the stand. Cales, White's uncle, told the court he would allow White to live in his home in Giles County. White said his 11-year-old granddaughter lives with him and his wife.

"Putting her into a home with a child is unthinkable at this point," said Judge Karen Loftin, just before ordering White continue to be held without bond.

BBM

Pretty strong statement from the judge. I'd say a true accident is probably pretty low on the list of "What happened here?"

The judge's statement doesn't fit with a situation where death occurred as a result of Noah being left home alone either. Presumably Ashley wouldn't be in a position to leave the 11yo home alone but a child that age would not face the same risks if left to care for herself for a short period.
If the judge feels that Ashley is a threat to this particular child (or any other that she is allowed to share a home with) that danger is not in the form of neglect.


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[ANonyMs]

(snipped for brevity)
IMO , parenting classes should be mandatory if anyone decides they are going to have children.

I think the increase of laws pertaining to child safety is due to many child accidents resulting injury, death, or missing children in past decades. While I agree that people, in general, may have had more common sense in previous generations, I think it is a fallacy to assume that they were actually safer. We just didn't hear about it as much with limited reporting, less access to records and data, etc. We just know more now.

It's like people bragging that they rode in their parents car with a car seat when they were kids and they turned out fine, so why do people stress about car seats now. Because we know more. We know better now how injuries happen and what we can do to protect kids.

As for mandatory parenting classes...I think that "Home Ec" in high school should be more focused as a "life skills" class. Personal finance and making responsible life choices should be a big part of that. The exercise where they carry the baby around or an egg around is sweet but hardly makes an impact in practical application. I think the public schools are the only place that a "mandatory" class could ever be carried out because, from a legal standpoint, reproduction is not a privilege, it is a right.

 

[ANonyMs]

The judge's statement doesn't fit with a situation where death occurred as a result of Noah being left home alone either. Presumably Ashley wouldn't be in a position to leave the 11yo home alone but a child that age would not face the same risks if left to care for herself for a short period.
If the judge feels that Ashley is a threat to this particular child (or any other that she is allowed to share a home with) that danger is not in the form of neglect.


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I could see it fitting with an accident that happened because he was left alone in a dangerous environment that she created.

 

[SStarr33]

I just take it as "Lawyer Speak" .

Of course it is.

 

[jstinch]

Been following this case since the beginning, no doubt in my mind that the parents are completely responsible for poor Noahs death. No way in the world this was some type of freak accident.

In regards to the parents pictures....def drug users and agree not just pot. I read awhile back that the FB profiles of the parents are old, they had new profiles but deleted them the Tuesday after Noah went missing. I would say PT and AW do not look like users in their 2010 pics....now is a completely different story....they've aged 20 yrs in 5.

 

[ANonyMs]

Heroin......

I seem to recall that shortly after the parents were arrested, online comments (outside of WS) were stating it was well-known in the community they were heroin users. Not sure if it's true. I know when I first saw their mugshots, I thought meth (only because they looked HORRIBLE and zoned out). They looked like they were on something. Maybe instead of heroin they are addicted to oxycontin or something like that (the online articles yesterday said pot and RX pills were found). That's a pretty pricy addiction though, isn't it?

Another question, some posters have suggested maybe they gave the kids heroin - why would they? Wouldn't most drug users NOT want to share their drugs (esp with kids) because it would be less for them? Just wondering the rationale behind that.

I am not saying that the gave they kids drugs intentionally but to address your question...

Think about how many people joke about "Baby Benadryl". Benadryl for infants used to be available and people DID abuse it to put their kids to sleep or sedate them (it often is referenced when talking about parents flying with kids).
If she needed to crash and sleep, or needed to get high, or just did not want to deal with the kids, or wanted them to stay asleep while she was driving PT to work b/c she somehow thought that was a safer or better idea...any of those could be reasons a person might have for doping their kid up.

 

[ANonyMs]

I have to respectfully disagree in part. Having seen so many patients in the ER with similar facial appearances, IMO, if I were assessing them, I would be drug screening for opiates, methamphetamines, and benzos, primarily looking for heroin. IMO

I would say PT and AW do not look like users in their 2010 pics....now is a completely different story....they've aged 20 yrs in 5.

I am still going to reserve judgement on that but I completely agree with your assessment of their pictures.

 

[tresptip]

I have to respectfully disagree in part. Having seen so many patients in the ER with similar facial appearances, IMO, if I were assessing them, I would be drug screening for opiates, methamphetamines, and benzos, primarily looking for heroin. IMO

People must think I'm a heavy drug user then because my eyes are blood shot from being dry and I always have dark circles under my eyes but I don't do any drugs at all.Also you will rarely see a picture of me with a good expression because I take horrible pictures.I guess that makes me a drug attic though.I hate how people judge you by the way you look.

 

[ANonyMs]

I have to respectfully disagree in part. Having seen so many patients in the ER with similar facial appearances, IMO, if I were assessing them, I would be drug screening for opiates, methamphetamines, and benzos, primarily looking for heroin. IMO

People must think I'm a heavy drug user then because my eyes are blood shot from being dry and I always have dark circles under my eyes but I don't do any drugs at all.Also you will rarely see a picture of me with a good expression because I take horrible pictures.I guess that makes me a drug attic though.I hate how people judge you by the way you look.

I don't know Zuri's professional background but I have to assume from the statement I quoted above that Zuri has some professional experience with this. ER nurses and Dr's have to make those kinds of assessments and are trained to do so. In some states, they have to do that as a part of accident investigations when people come in from a car accident or an industrial accident.

Like you, tresptip, my daughter and I often have dark circles under our eyes. Hers have been so bad since infancy that we have been asked by different teachers if she is "ok" (asking if she has a chronic illness or disease). We both have very severe allergies (not just your typical seasonal stuff). But I don't think anyone has ever looked at us for possible opiate use. The signs are just different. The palor and condition of the skin is taken in to consideration. The state of the eyes (both the pupils and the sclera), the loss of fat in the face where it would be in even a healthy but thin person.

 

[marshamccheese]

Forgive me if this has already been posted:http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...b8b-6e9d-5408-b5f5-52697738366e.html?mode=jqm

 

[JeannaT]

There was a Reporter in Little Rock AR that was murdered. It was a rental and I remb reading that they tore the house down. Sad all the way around.

They tore the rental house down in the Christian/Newsome murder case too, in Tennessee. The bereaved families actually got the first whacks at that house, and before that happened it was blurred out on Google. The house itself was worth virtually nothing and the owner wrote it off as a loss. No one would ever want to live in that place again, I don't think.

 

[ANonyMs]

Forgive me if this has already been posted:http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...b8b-6e9d-5408-b5f5-52697738366e.html?mode=jqm

It has but I think a reminder is good in case people just coming to thread did not see it. It is also available in the Media thread.

 

[tresptip]

I don't know Zuri's professional background but I have to assume from the statement I quoted above that Zuri has some professional experience with this. ER nurses and Dr's have to make those kinds of assessments and are trained to do so. In some states, they have to do that as a part of accident investigations when people come in from a car accident or an industrial accident.

Like you, tresptip, my daughter and I often have dark circles under our eyes. Hers have been so bad since infancy that we have been asked by different teachers if she is "ok" (asking if she has a chronic illness or disease). We both have very severe allergies (not just your typical seasonal stuff). But I don't think anyone has ever looked at us for possible opiate use. The signs are just different. The palor and condition of the skin is taken in to consideration. The state of the eyes (both the pupils and the sclera), the loss of fat in the face where it would be in even a healthy but thin person.

She may have experience,but I bet there are a lot of people that look better than those 2 did who actually are drug users.People age differently,and diet can make a big difference also in how you can look.If one has ate healthy for the past 2 weeks then stopped and started eating poorly ,it will show.I can look 30 or 40 ,depending on how healthy I have been eating lately.

 

[courtneyb]

People must think I'm a heavy drug user then because my eyes are blood shot from being dry and I always have dark circles under my eyes but I don't do any drugs at all.Also you will rarely see a picture of me with a good expression because I take horrible pictures.I guess that makes me a drug attic though.I hate how people judge you by the way you look.

I do have a long time medical background. What strikes me is the difference and deterioration of both their appearances, in conjunction with the characteristic things you look for in opiate addicts and methamphetamine addicts. The rapid change i appearance over the course of a couple years is what's so telling.


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[courtneyb]

Deleted duplicate post.

 

[ANonyMs]

You don't know that someone put the lid on after he fell in.He could have fallen in while pulling the lid off and then the lid fell back in place.

Even if she had been home when he fell into the septic tank,She still would not have had enough time to save him.

I didn't say that I knew that someone put the lid back on. I know there is some theorizing that he could have fallen in and the lid could have flipped back in place. If you look at previous threads, I was a big proponent of that theory and linked to several cases.

However, IMO, 1) the type of lid we now know was used is not the kind that flips around. The lids that flip around are seated down in to a lip where they are supported but if you step on one side, it can fall in while still being braced in the center like a fulcrum. We have now seen the type of lid and it is not that type. The type of lid on this septic tank is plastic and sits on tops of the hole or tank entry way and is bolted down around the outside. It does not sit inside on a lip or ledge. It couldn't flip like that. I still maintain that there is room for this to be ENTIRELY an accident but I find it unlikely.
2) If it was entirely an accident and no other person was involved in replacing the lid...why would the parents lie? Working through that scenario...AW & PT left the children at home alone. AW comes home to discover that Noah is nowhere to be found. She looks around outside and sees nothing of concern but does not see Noah. She calls the police to report him missing because she legitimately believes he is missing. So...why lie? To save her own skin? Her child is MISSING. He could be abducted. He could be walking down the road and hit by a car. He could be in the large pond nearby or lost in the woods. Time is of the essence. Timing is *everything* in a missing child case. So...why lie? Why wait so long to tell the truth...the truth which changes the scope of the investigation. I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. AW's now obvious deception, as well as PT's deception that we now know about thanks to the judge's comment do not, IMO, fit with a scenario of 100% true and total tragic accident involving no other person.

 

[tresptip]

I do have a long time medical background. What strikes me is the difference and deterioration of both their appearances, in conjunction with the characteristic things you look for in opiate addicts and methamphetamine addicts. The rapid change i appearance over the course of a couple years is what's so telling.


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It looked to me like they both lost weight and are exhausted which can easily happen while working and taking care of young children and a baby.

 

[courtneyb]

That's one of the biggest problems with parenting today.In the past ,some kids were brought up in lenient households where the kids had more freedom,and some children were more trustworthy.
Some of those children grow up completely oblivious to the changing times.All they know is how they were raised.And they also don't realize that even though they were trustworthy when they were a child that doesn't mean their child is going to be just as trustworthy with the same commonsense.
Back in the day,they were allowed to go out in play at 5 or 6 by themselves,and no one thought nothing of it back then.If a parent felt their child was responsible back then ,a mom might have even went to the store and let the child stay home.These kids grow up thinking its ok to do that since they were allowed to do it when they were kids.
IMO , parenting classes should be mandatory if anyone decides they are going to have children.

I have that issue as well. Drug addicts are usually loathe to "share" their drug of choice. So, I'm on the fence about that aspect.


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[ANonyMs]

She may have experience,but I bet there are a lot of people that look better than those 2 did who actually are drug users.People age differently,and diet can make a big difference also in how you can look.If one has ate healthy for the past 2 weeks then stopped and started eating poorly ,it will show.I can look 30 or 40 ,depending on how healthy I have been eating lately.

But we aren't discussing drug users who are lucky enough to look healthier than they are. We are discussing commonly seen, tell tale signs that professionals look for as red flags. And yes, I agree that diet and lifestyle play a role. I am not saying they are drug users. You won't find a single post from me declaring I am certain beyond all doubt that they are drug users (other than the marijuana that PT admits to having smoked weekly for 15 years). But I disagree that there is nothing in their mug shots that would indicate to a trained professional that an an assessment for drug use might be appropriate.

 

[ANonyMs]

deleted by me...duplicate post...anyone else having crazy issues with posting this morning?