Verdict Watch

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Isn't that unusual for them to wait IN the courtoom?

During other verdict watches I've seen, I thought everyone went about, even in the lunchroom etc? :confused:

fran

Sometimes they wait in the courtroom, other times not. I think it depends upon whether another room is provided for the families of the victim and the family of the defendant. JMO. Is this the week when nothing else is going on at the court house? Could be that other places, other rooms, are closed, like the lunchroom?
 
The last trial in that same courtroom had the people spending their hours and days waiting for the verdict.
 
Thought the first half of the prosecution's closing arguments were excellent...though I have liked to see the gas milage addressed. I liked that the ADA encouraged the jury to think about it seriously and consider all sides. He's confident.

Missed BH's closing because I had to run out to a doctor's appointment. And was stunned to find out I'm pregnant. YIKES!

:balloons::baby: Congratulations!
 
Was the defendant also in the courtroom waiting?

I think the defendant has to wait in a holding cell. But they must be brought in each time the judge announces something, like this jury break.
 
I think it will be bundled in and considered valid. I don't THINK that is actually enough to let him go. I could be wrong or could have missed a detail and just have the gist of it.

I think the accomplice instruction is the strongest argument and I think the jurors might lend weight to what Jason, ducking down in the passenger seat of a mini-van might look like. I think he could be woman-like at that time of morning.

As for the overall case, it's an Occam razor thing. I don't know what the motive is, but there is no evidence of any other person having any motive, so it defaults on him and his antics.

All of these types of cases, meaning the spouse did it, usually follow similar patterns and it's difficult, sometimes, to put you finger on which one that particular suspect felt strongly enough about to cause them to do the final act of murder.

In the S Peterson case, it was the life-style, IMHO. Then there was $$, not wanting to be a parent in the first place, he'd look better as a grieving widower, etc...........................control

In the Peterson East, it was $$$, imho...............control

In the Cooper case, IMHO, it was $$ and CONTROL!

Many are just plain old CONTROL! But that element exists of CONTROL issues.

In this case, a combination of the above mentioned. But this case, IMHO, I think the BIGGEST element was custody of the child. He even told a friend that he feared if MY divorced him, she'd take C to NY. Then he'd never get to see his child. :(

Oh, and you ad in the narcisst part where they think they can get away with it because they're SMARTER than anyone else! NOT! :mad:....but the truth is, they're just like all the other killers who've walked that path before them. There's no school for murder. There are no classes on how to avoid getting caught. The fact is, they forget that it's LE's job to put them away and MANY LE agencies are VERY GOOD at what they do! It's easy for LE to catch on to these amateurs.  

JMHO
fran
 
That last witness, the rebuttal N&O guy, pretty much negated the one defense supposed eye-witness IMO. They *eye witness* had him driving a completely different vehicle than he actually was driving that day.
 
I have seen them wait in the courtroom before. I believe that if someone sides with the defense on the gas purchases, they will also throw out the gas purchase testified by Gracie. Therefore, they would by default have to throw out that it was JY at the house (testimony by the postal lady). However, the prosecution has diluted her testimony as being valid for that morning. There is no evidence that he hired someone to kill his wife. I suspect that they will conclude that he purchased gas somewhere else and paid cash on the third, being more discreet this time.

BTW, if you want to see real tears, ICA's brother will show you what real tears are as supposed to fake tears.
 
I think it will be bundled in and considered valid. I don't THINK that is actually enough to let him go. I could be wrong or could have missed a detail and just have the gist of it.

I think the accomplice instruction is the strongest argument and I think the jurors might lend weight to what Jason, ducking down in the passenger seat of a mini-van might look like. I think he could be woman-like at that time of morning.

As for the overall case, it's an Occam razor thing. I don't know what the motive is, but there is no evidence of any other person having any motive, so it defaults on him and his antics.

I too think the accomplice instruction was the strongest. When I heard that, I had the same reaction as when I heard the 2nd degree instruction in the last trial. In both cases, I thought that the judge believes the accused is guilty and it trying to make it a little easier for the jury to arrive at the same conclusion. Even if the gas mileage argument is believed, the circumstantial evidence enters into the picture as "accomplice". If the gas mileage argument is excluded, then the circumstantial evidence is enough to convict. The only loophole goes back to what the defense argued regarding the accomplice instruction and that is: if the gas mileage argument is accepted (which in my opinion requires a more concrete/analytical approach to the evidence), where is the evidence that Jason conspired with anyone (phone calls, cash payoff, etc)? There could be one holdout that wants to follow some sort of factual/numerical argument (not sure if that's the correct term, but something along the lines of connecting the dots).
 
Yes he was.

BC did not sit and wait in the courtroom - he was only brought in when the judge was to address the court - for a break, instructions, jury request, etc. I sat right behind his team in court so I saw it all - the room where he sits is just through a door off to the right once he leaves the courtroom. So Jason is sitting in the same seat Brad did. Weird.
 
Has anyone heard what their lunch break time will be TODAY? I haven't been following the live feed, so I haven't heard/seen anything.
 
Just FYI: IIRC at the last trial WTVD (ABC11) was our friend during deliberations. They showed the courtroom when the jury sent out notes asking to see evidence. WRAL didn't come back until verdict.
 
All of these types of cases, meaning the spouse did it, usually follow similar patterns and it's difficult, sometimes, to put you finger on which one that particular suspect felt strongly enough about to cause them to do the final act of murder.

In the S Peterson case, it was the life-style, IMHO. Then there was $$, not wanting to be a parent in the first place, he'd look better as a grieving widower, etc...........................control

In the Peterson East, it was $$$, imho...............control

In the Cooper case, IMHO, it was $$ and CONTROL!

Many are just plain old CONTROL! But that element exists of CONTROL issues.

In this case, a combination of the above mentioned. But this case, IMHO, I think the BIGGEST element was custody of the child. He even told a friend that he feared if MY divorced him, she'd take C to NY. Then he'd never get to see his child. :(

Oh, and you ad in the narcisst part where they think they can get away with it because they're SMARTER than anyone else! NOT! :mad:....but the truth is, they're just like all the other killers who've walked that path before them. There's no school for murder. There are no classes on how to avoid getting caught. The fact is, they forget that it's LE's job to put them away and MANY LE agencies are VERY GOOD at what they do! It's easy for LE to catch on to these amateurs.  

JMHO
fran

As I was attempting to discuss the other day, most of these types have prior histories with women too. I was watching the ID Channel last night. Remember Jasimine Fiore? I can't recall the guys name right now, but he was on a number of reality shows, 'Megan Want's a Millionaire'? He murdered Ms. Fiore, cut up her body to stuff her in a suitcase, and disposed of her. He had a history in Canada, his native country, of assault on a female. These types of crimes seldom happen in a vacuum IMO. There are certain personality traits......as you said, CONTROL is often a big issue.
 
Put me down for inexpensive pair of work gloves, much like we keep around for gardening and other work type jobs. They offer dexterity, a good grip, and can be purchased at any home improvement store from here to Brevard.

Sounds okay, too, glee. Those kind of gloves make good sense, too. They cost about 2 bucks at Dollar General & are found on the gardening isle. I have a pair I bought there for my little garden (I'm cheap on those kinds of things, and the DG is a great little place to shop for all kinds of things.)
 
Thanks everyone for your congrats. It still doesn't feel real. Which leads me to more comments on JY's testimony that he was "shocked but excited" immediately when finding out MY was pregnant.

I didn't believe JY was excited about the pregnancy for one second. And now from my experience just about 24 hours ago, I DEFINITELY don't believe it. My husband and I are both a little shellshocked and it doesn't feel real...this was completely unexpected and there will be a 7 year gap between our child and this new one. It doesn't feel real, and neither of us were jumping for joy. We were just kind of slackjawed.

And here's our situation. Together 12 years, experienced parents, both educated, both established in our careers, and in an excellent financial situation. Plus we have local family and friends for lots of support. Yet we're still shocked and of course worried about the health of the pregnancy since it was unplanned.

Yet JY and MY were not married, had a rocky relationship, fought fairly constantly, were not yet established in their careers, had allegations of infidelity (confirmed infidelity by JY in his testimony), and their friends thought they were not a good couple and should break up (lack of support). Plus we have the shocking lack of maturity of JY...he was clearly not ready to settle down in any way.

And JY claims they were both shocked but excited? Bull$*!^. I'm sure the allegation that he initially insisted MY have an abortion is true.
 
I think it's easier to just hear a few facts and make up one's mind the person is innocent and then stick to that opinion. Then every bit of additional circumstances learned as the case progresses, to keep looking at it and STILL think the suspect is innocent. When you delve deeper into the cases and even watch the trial as close as is possible, meaning televised in real time or reading transcripts, one can change their mind to guilty. It's when someone depends on the media for interpretation of facts being presented and haven't really heard ALL the evidence, many still maintain the def's innocense. But then again, like others have said, many people just don't consider circumstantial evidence proof enough for them to come to a conclusion of guilt. This is where dna and such, has become a boost to crime fighting, but when there's no dna {proof}, people take that as a sign the def wasn't there. This fact is even more difficult when the perp lives at the crime scene and one CAN infer all dna proof is bogus. Some even go so far as to deny that even {proof} of the def's dna mingled with the victim's blood is still not proof, because you'd expect the def's dna to be at the scene anyway.

I believe part of the problem is, some people just don't understand the laws completely on how a juror is to consider 'circumstantial' evidence. Almost everything that is presented is actually 'circumstantial.' All except eye witness and, I believe, confessions of guilt. Everything else is just that a series of 'circumstances,' when added up together, bring one to the conclusion that they complete a puzzle that points towards the only reason the circumstances are there, they point to the guilt of the def.

I admit the other recent trial held in this very courtroom, the 'evidence' was very thin. But then there were those darn 'hooks.' Meaning, the only explanation that item of circumstances is there, the def is guilty. IF one has their 'hook,' then every other 'circumstance' that was previously, possibly dismissed in one's mind, all falls into the category of 'guilty.' But to change one's mind that had already been made up, takes a lot of thought and concentration. Maybe some people haven't really put that much thought into it, and stubbornly stick to their original opinion and just avoid the facts.

As long as there's a possibility of opposing opinions, people will differ. I don't always understand or agree with those who think a def is still innocent after a jury of their peers had reached a guilty verdict, but that's their perogative. I don't argue with them because they don't agree with me. I don't mind debating the facts as I see it and listening to their's, but it gets to a point that I just leave it at that.

I will say though, it is very frustrating when you do think the def is innocent and is either found guilty or worked out a plea deal for whatever reason, and the case is closed and the def goes to jail. I've followed a few cases here on Websleuths that either the person who I suspected was never charged or a plea deal was made and the person I thought was competely INNOCENT is held responsible for the crime. One case in particular kept me up at night because to this day, I feel a terrible injustice has been done and there is still a killer on the loose in a small town. I still feel a lot of emotion about that particular case just typing these words about it. :(

I believe JY is guilty as charged and I've never wavered on that. Within a day of MY's murder, everything I learned about this case points towards JY and NO ONE else! When he showed up at the crimes scene and had already lawyered up and refused to even go through the house with LE, I knew he did it. But because you, as a juror cannot hold that against him, that would have to be discarded in a court of law. But it just went downhill from there, IMHO. Refusing to even talk to friends and family about it, not asking 'what happened' and not contacting LE to find out the status of his wife's murder investigation, is completely unnatural and IMHO. I feel it's because he was scared to death that he was going to get caught and hadn't completely perfected his story. Like the DA said yesterday, it took him 1693 days to tell his side, as he waited until all the 'evidence' was presented to THINK UP and come up with AN EXCUSE for each circumstance that could and was used against him.

Like the pros said yesterday, ......... too little too late....... and I am not buyin' it!

JMHO
fran

After watching only a few of these cases and trials from beginning to end, I get the impression that some make up their minds relatively easily based on well known spousal homicide patterns of: the husband did it because of money, custody, or control issues. Each piece of evidence is interpreted through the veil of guilt. During the trial, each argument is viewed in terms of how it impacts a guilty verdict. As you say, it's easy to hear a few facts and draw a conclusion. I think others lean towards guilt, but want to hear the legal arguments and then ... during trial, move away from the emotional aspects of wanting to see the accused tossed in jail and more towards weighing the strength of the arguments.

Personally, I was shocked that Jason testified. I think the Judge and prosecution were completely unprepared for that possibility and I think it had a huge impact on the jury. Even though an accused is not to be presumed guilty because he or she does not testify, it is often assumed that if the accused had nothing to hide, he or she would testify. Although Jason appeared to be a nervous wreck, jumpy and somewhat defensive while on the stand, he offered explanations (sometimes long-winded) for all the evidence. When the prosecution had the opportunity to question him for days, confuse him, have him contradict himself and provide lies until they screamed, BH simply stopped after an hour. Amanda Lamb suggested that BH didn't want to give Jason an opportunity to tell more lies, but I have to wonder why not. Liars eventually get their lies tied in so many knots that people walk away rolling their eyes. It could be perceived that BH decided that she didn't want to give Jason any more opportunities to explain away the police theory. Even though the gut feeling is guilt, it comes down to the arguments and decisions of the lawyers and, in this case (as with others), they sometimes fumble the ball.
 
I too think the accomplice instruction was the strongest. When I heard that, I had the same reaction as when I heard the 2nd degree instruction in the last trial. In both cases, I thought that the judge believes the accused is guilty and it trying to make it a little easier for the jury to arrive at the same conclusion. Even if the gas mileage argument is believed, the circumstantial evidence enters into the picture as "accomplice". If the gas mileage argument is excluded, then the circumstantial evidence is enough to convict. The only loophole goes back to what the defense argued regarding the accomplice instruction and that is: if the gas mileage argument is accepted (which in my opinion requires a more concrete/analytical approach to the evidence), where is the evidence that Jason conspired with anyone (phone calls, cash payoff, etc)? There could be one holdout that wants to follow some sort of factual/numerical argument (not sure if that's the correct term, but something along the lines of connecting the dots).


I thought I heard the discussion the other day in the courtroom, when the jury was NOT present, of the judge discussing the 'accomplice' part and the Murder 1 vs possible Murder 2.

I believe the judge said there's enough evidence from the crime scene and the victim's body, to indicate that the 'intention' of the person who committed the crime was nothing else except to KILL the victim.

I think he means that the extreme damage done, (ie the amount of blows), the INTENT was to KILL and there's no way this could have been 'not planned' as while the perp was striking, they COULD have stopped, but they intended to KILL them, so they just kept striking, over and over and over. And, IMHO, did a little back-up of strangulation. :mad:

OTOH, about the possibility of a 2nd perp. There are two items that COULD be questionable and IF there were a 2nd perp it could have been them. Like the gas, for one, ...............and IMHO, the size 10 shoe print. Although the pros came up with a plausible explanation on how it could have been JY, the judge thought IF there was a 2nd person involved, the def would be guilty just as the other guy, as basically stated above, the INTENT was to KILL and BOTH, (if there is another) would be just as guilty as the other.

JMHO
fran
 
Sounds okay, too, glee. Those kind of gloves make good sense, too. They cost about 2 bucks at Dollar General & are found on the gardening isle. I have a pair I bought there for my little garden (I'm cheap on those kinds of things, and the DG is a great little place to shop for all kinds of things.)

Yup, now that we're 'country folk', I found myself a nice, pink, seersucker short-sleeved robe at Dollar General! :great: Even has my preferred 'snaps' up the front. Been looking all over for a simple, light-weight thing to throw over myself when the grandsons show up early in the morning. My favorite new store is Dollar Tree! My husband can't figure out how anyone can drop nearly a hundred bucks at Dollar Tree. :floorlaugh: He hates that store!
 
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