Viable suspect: Damien Echols

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I just want to clear something up about Echols claims he experienced in prison.

We've never seen any filings of abuse or neglect lawsuits filed on his behalf for what he's claiming. I'm using common sense to come to the conclusion that it's just not true. If anyone knows of any please post them otherwise we can say that his claims are nonsense.

Is it possible that his claims were part of his mental illness? Could be, but we don't have access to those files to check it out.


I happen to know several people who work in corrections which is totally different than being in a local jail. This is what I know that inmates receive:

• 
  3 square meals per day - no cooking or dishes required from inmate. A typical meal is roast beef, mashed potatoes, green beans, corn, bread and desert.

• 
  All clothing supplied and laundered.

• All medical, prescription drugs, dental and vision at no expensive to the inmate including prescription drugs.

• Air conditioner and/or fan in each cell

• TV's and radios in their cells

• Exercise into the yard with other inmates 3X daily or if in protective custody or death row exercise is usually 1 hour per day

• Access to a phone and daily visits according to their prison

Some of these guys have never received this kind of care before they were incarcerated. People who are in prison usually have made this choice of doing so.

It is not quite that simple. HE was in prison. On death row for a crime he did not commit. If that won't make you loopy and damaged I don't know what will.

You are describing day camp. That is not the exerience in prison. Especially for one convicted of a crime against a child.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Had to learn how to walk again and eat with his hands? Was Damien a like a feral child lost in the Black Forest, running with wolves on all fours scavenging for food? No he was in prison in Arkansas.

Hilarious!

I'm amazed he and the reporters can keep a straight face.

BTW: His claims that prison made him blind are my favorite. I'm amazed he hasn't sued them yet.

Look at Lorri's face in the older video, she seems to have a difficult time believing that as well.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

It is not quite that simple. HE was in prison. On death row for a crime he did not commit. If that won't make you loopy and damaged I don't know what will.

You are describing day camp. That is not the exerience in prison. Especially for one convicted of a crime against a child.

BBM

This is not a day camp description.

In the US we have laws regarding inmates in ALL facilities. I'm not sure about other countries or prisoners of war, but in the USA that is not true. If you have information that conflicts with what I posted please post so that I can know what you are referring to. TIA

I have even seen on TV the show called LOCK UP RAW ran on MSNBC on the weekends and they have never talked or shown anything like what he's talking about and MSNBC is a liberal network.

Please see Friends and Family guide by Arkansas DOC
http://adc.arkansas.gov/resources/Documents/Friends_and_Family_Guide.pdf

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM

This is not a day camp description.

In the US we have laws regarding inmates in ALL facilities. I'm not sure about other countries or prisoners of war, but in the USA that is not true. If you have information that conflicts with what I posted please post so that I can know what you are referring to. TIA

I have even seen on TV the show called LOCK UP RAW ran on MSNBC on the weekends and they have never talked or shown anything like what he's talking about and MSNBC is a liberal network.

The experience of it is not the same as what inmates are entitled to. While I agree with your assessment of MSNBC, I don't believe that one who has not done that time. Going in as a teen and being in there for so long and say it was a fine and decent life. It has to mess you up. It just does.

 

[primitivefuture]

This is an interesting read for one man's perspective on death row.

http://www.deathrow.at/hathorn/home.html

From 'Animus':

More tangible distractions are the sounds of madness. Men who have forgone the strug-gle for sanity scream and pound steel doors, in guttural or tearful language demanding acknowledgment of what they deem their needs to be. Sometimes I listen to the pleas, often in-congruous and nonsensical, and watch through the slit on my door as picket officers lie atop an instrument panel to sleep or amuse themselves by making fun of the crazy person’s noise. It is a source of mirth for them, a story wretchedly embellished to be told to friends and paramours in bars or bedrooms, a threat, like tales of the bogeyman, to encourage children to obey.

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[UdbCrzy2]

BBM

This is not a day camp description.

In the US we have laws regarding inmates in ALL facilities. I'm not sure about other countries or prisoners of war, but in the USA that is not true. If you have information that conflicts with what I posted please post so that I can know what you are referring to. TIA

I have even seen on TV the show called LOCK UP RAW ran on MSNBC on the weekends and they have never talked or shown anything like what he's talking about and MSNBC is a liberal network.

Please see Friends and Family guide by Arkansas DOC
http://adc.arkansas.gov/resources/Documents/Friends_and_Family_Guide.pdf

I also notice on page 7 of the Friends & Family Guide they talk about 'good time credit'. That's where they receive time off from their sentence.

Good time classification places inmates in Class I,
II, III, or IV status. Class I earns 30 days additional
good time credit per month (for example, after 30 days
in Class I status, the inmate has 60 days credit); Class II
earns 20 days additional credit per month; Class III
earns 10 days additional credit per month; and Class IV
does not earn any good time. An inmate being held in a
city or county jail awaiting transfer to the ADC can be
awarded good time at a Class II level.

 

[kyleb]

We've never seen any filings of abuse or neglect lawsuits filed on his behalf for what he's claiming.

Exactly, our prison system is far from ideal, but actual neglected prisoners file lawsuits to change the system as a simple web search provides many examples of, and such efforts deserve support. On the other hand, crocodile tears from pathological liars only serve to distract the naive from bettering our system and assist the depraved in further corrupting it. I'd personally like to see our prison system evolve to focus on reform rather than punishment, along the lines of what is done in Norway, but we're never going to get anywhere close by chasing the smoke and mirrors of unrepentant child murders and the like.

 

[Miranda!]

Mrs G Norris, it might also be an idea to read through any material you both link and cite as evidence of why you hold the opinion you do. All 4 parts of the interview with Echols were there! It was on an old supporter board that is now a 'read only' archive site.

However, as reedus posted, this is all old news as the three are free. I would have rather thought that any serious nons would both be organising and forming some sort of pressure group to lobby the state about letting them walk free and who would also be more than willing to pay any necessary subscriptions for access to any articles which they feel they are critical to the arguments they are trying present.

As to the matter of the 'rape' incident, maybe read through this thread where you will find some reasonable comments on that issue.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Exactly, our prison system is far from ideal, but actual neglected prisoners file lawsuits to change the system as a simple web search provides many examples of, and such efforts deserve support. On the other hand, crocodile tears from pathological liars only serve to distract the naive from bettering our system and assist the depraved in further corrupting it. I'd personally like to see our prison system evolve to focus on reform rather than punishment, along the lines of what is done in Norway, but we're never going to get anywhere close by chasing the smoke and mirrors of unrepentant child murders and the like.

I think Norway has had some success with their programs, but I recall one inmate claiming he has been mistreated like Echols has.

Anders Behring Breivik he too complained of prison conditions. He wishes for his 3-cell suite to have a view. He wants more butter too. His attorney claims “Such treatment isn’t human,”

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Here is the thing, I believe that none of the 3 are guilty. But even if you did, They all served 18 years. In most case for murder that is more than the average killer would get. So even if you believe he was responsible, Although the prosecutor let them have a plea that maintained their innocence when he already had them ALL locked up and DE on death row, Why all the vitriol. The anger?
They served more than most would. IT is over. Really over. The only thing left is to find the real killer/s.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

I remember the after Alford Plea party where Misskelley was not privy to.

"We didn't know anything about it,'' Misskelley's father, "Big Jessie'' Misskelley, 72, said of The Madison party.

Echols claims he only knew Misskelley in passing

Echols has said Misskelley's confession is unreliable, in part, because he only knew Misskelley in passing. In his confession, Misskelley, whose IQ was measured at 72, said he met Echols and Baldwin in a West Memphis woods and watched as they brutalized, sexually assaulted and killed three young boys.

"Two things that I don't have time for is stupidity and ugliness,'' Echols said in a 1995 death row interview. "And Jessie Misskelley had both those qualities.''

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/aug/21/back-to-life/

 

[primitivefuture]

I remember the after Alford Plea party where Misskelley was not privy to.



Echols claims he only knew Misskelley in passing

Jessie's dad said they weren't friends and that Jessie avoided Damien.


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[UdbCrzy2]

Jessie's dad said they weren't friends and that Jessie avoided Damien.


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It's kind of optional. I've heard they weren't friends, they were friends, one knew Jason but not the other. Take your pick.

In an interview after his release Baldwin said the following

Somehow or another, they made the decision to set me & my two best friends up for the crime

So according to Baldwin his two best friends were Echols and Misskelley.

 

[primitivefuture]

No one here is obligated to believe a word that comes out of Damien's mouth. I can't say that i haven't doubted claims he has made in the past. However, I don't believe that the claims posted earlier about his death row experience are that outlandish. And I don't think posts made about non-death row general population accommodations are relevant, since that is not where Damien was housed. While I doubt anyone would refer to decades spent on death row as a comfortable experience, I find it hard to believe that people would argue that it doesn't take a physical toll on a person.

"The conditions of confinement are so oppressive, the helplessness endured in the roller coaster of hope and despair so wrenching and exhausting, that ultimately the inmate can no longer bear it, and then it is only in dropping his appeals that he has any sense of control over his fate," Dr. Stuart Grassian wrote in court papers.

http://m.deathpenaltyinfo.org/node/1408

The cell bunks are made of concrete to prevent prisoners from making weapons. A combination toilet/sink sits between the bunks. There is no natural light in these cells.

Prisoners are confined to their cells 23 out of 24 hours a day. The only out-of-cell time is 3-times-a-week showers, 3-5 times a week one hour 'recreation' in an enclosed concrete yard, weather permitting, some limited access to the law library, and visits (if the prisoners are lucky enough to have visitors). Visiting hours vary, and most have 'non-contact' visiting arrangements - visiting family and friends through plexiglass, talking via a 'phone' unit.

On the back wall of the cell, each prisoner has two shelves on which to store belongings.
All meals are eaten in the cell .

There is no natural fresh air ventilation to the cell units.
Some units have some form of air-conditioning, many don't. When it's cold out, they're cold - When it's hot out, they're hot.
And it's usually recirculated air laced with concrete dust and other particles.
The exercise yard is not really a yard.
It is a concrete box covered by wire so thick rain barely seeps through, even during a downpour. Prisoners never see a tree or a blade of grass. This is the only place where they are exposed to a little sunlight.

Worse than the physical toll exacted on our bodies was the toll on our minds. Death row was bedlam—an unending chorus of flushing toilets, curses shouted across the tier by feuding inmates, petty arguments over virtually anything, and competing radios trying to out-blare one another. Most of the pandemonium on death row was a result of men being driven mad by monotony, severe emotional deprivation, and the lack of normalcy.

http://progressive.org/rideau0411.html

I went to a standstill psychologically once - lapse of memory. I didn't talk for 15 days. I couldn't hear clearly. You can't see - you're blind - block everything out - disoriented, awareness is very bad. Did someone say he's coming out of it? I think what I'm saying is true - not sure. I think I was drooling - a complete standstill.

I seem to see movements - real fast motions in front of me. Then seems like they're doing things behind your back - can't quite see them. Did someone just hit me? I dwell on it for hours.

Melting, everything in the cell starts moving; everything gets darker, you feel you are losing your vision.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2012/08/26/the-living-death-of-solitary-confinement/


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[primitivefuture]

It's kind of optional. I've heard they weren't friends, they were friends, one knew Jason but not the other. Take your pick.

In an interview after his release Baldwin said the following



So according to Baldwin his two best friends were Echols and Misskelley.

I tend to believe they weren't good friends, based on what I know about their personalities and intelligence levels. Jason and Damien were much more intelligent and creative than Jessie. It's hard to imagine they had much in common.


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[Mrs G Norris]

Look at Lorri's face in the older video, she seems to have a difficult time believing that as well.

She does that a lot, it's her 'oh crap I have to sit here and be supportive and he's on a crazy roll, I hope he doesn't say something too off the hook' face.

Once Damien gets warmed up he'll say any crazy nonsense, it's funny though.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Mrs G Norris, it might also be an idea to read through any material you both link and cite as evidence of why you hold the opinion you do. All 4 parts of the interview with Echols were there! It was on an old supporter board that is now a 'read only' archive site.

However, as reedus posted, this is all old news as the three are free. I would have rather thought that any serious nons would both be organising and forming some sort of pressure group to lobby the state about letting them walk free and who would also be more than willing to pay any necessary subscriptions for access to any articles which they feel they are critical to the arguments they are trying present.

As to the matter of the 'rape' incident, maybe read through this thread where you will find some reasonable comments on that issue.

As mentioned in the opening post the idea was to make separate posts for each false accusation. That's why the same video was linked at different positions. Otherwise I'm unsure what you mean.

Secondly this is not old news while Terry Hobbs is being accused.

Why do reporters take Damien's lies at face value?

 

[Ausgirl]

Why does anyone?

Why are people --still-- acting shocked about the fact he's liar?

Why are people still citing Damien's compulsive lying as proof of guilt of murder?

How can anything he says be proof of guilt, if nothing he says is to be believed? Are only his self-incriminating statements accurate, but anything else is dubious? Has he got some kind of filter in his head that sorts it all out in neat categories for that purpose?

It's all a bit beyond me.

 

[kyleb]

I tend to believe they weren't good friends, based on what I know about their personalities and intelligence levels.

Well then it seems we might at least agree that Baldwin was lying when he said "somehow or another they made the decision to set me and my two best friends up for the crime" starting around 6:40 in this interview, though obviously we differ on which part of Baldwin's statement is false.

Why does anyone?

Well you could always ask the many people here who not only take Echols' lies at face value but also defend them to the hilt. As for the rest of your questions, I've not come across anyone engaging in such inanity, but if you have then of course they would be the ones to ask about that.

 

[Miranda!]

The penal system in Norway is good. The one individual inmate mentioned in this thread is very much a 'special case'. I doubt he will ever walk free.

Prisoners of war, as codified by the Geneva Convention, only has to give name, rank and serial number. As America is not at war with any other country, as far as I am aware, GITMO should not exist. To our shame we were also complicit in enabling some of the torture to take place. There are 'inmates' there who were cleared a while back but have not been repatriated. Here is not the place to discuss it, though.

As far as I am aware no prison wardens are put on 'leave' or a desk job whilst complaints against them are investigated. I guess I must have got that wrong.

And what exactly do prisoners on life terms have to gain by good behaviour, which I imagine was the deal in the information posted here, about time off?

Where zoos do still exist in civilised countries of the West, the wild animals are treated more humanely then residents on DR.

Were there a proper statutory duty of care for inmates on Death Row then Echols would have had his eyes tested and advice given; also visits from a dentist who did slightly more than just extractions!

Echols and Misskelly were never buddies. However, Jessie and Jason were when they were younger and Jason's mental age was closer to Jessie's. Jason 'grew out' of him, socially as well as intellectually, and made a new circle of friends but never denied his old friends.

I still fail to see any point to this thread in terms of getting justice for the three young boys so bruatlly murdered in 1993. It is beginning to feel as if some are trying to re-present the arguments made that the earth is flat! We have moved on since then.