Viable suspect: Damien Echols

[Ausgirl]

we have heard all this before, and there's OTHER threads for arguing guilt or innocence, many of them, for that purpose.

-- This-- thread is for exploring the reasons WHY you think Echols WAS a good suspect. Prior to the court case, let's say.

Please do not derail it. Please, TRY to treat this as a -suspect- thread, rather than a 'he's guilty! cuz the court said so!" thread. Ok?

^ I just felt it needed saying again. No disrespect intended -- I ask people to stay on-topic in the other viable suspect threads, and I will do the same here.

 

[kyleb]

Here is the statement from Jessie where he says the boys were attacked at noon.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmjune1.html
"RIDGE: I'm not saying when they called you. I'm saying what time was it that you were actually there in the park?
JESSIE: About 12
RIDGE: About noon?
JESSIE: Yes"

But Misskelley didn't make any allusion to the boys being attacked in that, just states that he arrived in the park around 12. And again his references to time throughout the confession shows he's no understanding of it, the "all of this stuff happened that night, that they done it, I went home about noon" in particular shows an utter failure to grasp the concept of noon and is also where Misskelley was the first person in the conversation to suggest the murders happened at night.

here's a link to a pretty good debunking of the soft ball girls:
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/2091/Softball-Girls#.UrwJsYtwL6c

What exactly in the inconsistencies between the girls' witness statements and those of others do you believe discredits them compared to the inconsistencies in Echols' alibi witnesses' statements which you've no issue with?

 

[gheckso]

And here we go again :banghead:

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

And here we go again :banghead:

Scroll and roll baby.. Scroll and roll..

 

[Graznik]

^ I just felt it needed saying again. No disrespect intended -- I ask people to stay on-topic in the other viable suspect threads, and I will do the same here.

We've been asked to stay on topic by Ausgirl, the creator of this thread. Discussing the soft ball girls, or Misskelley's "confession" is not on topic. We'll have to leave it there for now.

 

[kyleb]

So what exactly is on topic here if not evidence which implicates Echols in the murders such as the witnesses statements throughout Misskelley's many confessions and those of the girls from the softball games?

 

[Graznik]

It's off topic because we started debating these, me arguing against them. From what I understood Ausgirl simply wanted this to be a thread in which evidence or reasons of guilt could be presented, not up for debate or discussion. Like it was stated in the opening post: "[...] there's OTHER threads for arguing guilt or innocence [...]".We went in to that territory, hence why I said that I will just leave it at that and respect Ausgirls wishes.

 

[Ausgirl]

Thanks. Not being a thread nazi, promise - just every single thread gets derailed by endless, endless arguing, and I really wish to see these suspect threads not derailed to nth degree. Like all the others.

Interesting how few posts on this thread actually describe what made Echols a good suspect prior to the arrest and trials, compared to the others...

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Narlene Hollingsworth and the other Hollingsworth saw Echols in muddy clothing near the crime scene at approximately 9:40pm
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/narleneh_statement.html

You can find the other Hollingsworth statements here:
http://callahan.8k.com/documents_az.html

We have Ryan Clark (Chris Byer's brother) and his friends who are looking for the boys near the crime scene at the end of the bayou. He as well as the others hear water splashing sounds. The time is approximately 9:00pm or a little after.

Ryan Clark
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ryanclark.html

Brit Alan Smith
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/brias.html

Robbie Young
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/ryoung.html


I believe that this is when the boys were murdered by Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley.

He is near the crime scene with muddy clothing and we also know that 3 other persons heard splashing in the water and running sounds.

 

[LordYAM]

Those same witnesses id domini teer as the person he was with. The prosecution said no it was jason Baldwin. So if the prosecution is to be believed they recognize some kid they barely met or cursorily knew, yet families to recognize their own niece. They are implying she was both blind as a bat and keen eyed as an eagle. That is double think at its finest. The prosecution tells jurors to listen to part of the testimony (coincident the part that supports their theory) and ignore the part that doesn't. I don't know which is stupider. The fact that the prosecution argued that of that people are stupid enough to believe it.


And yes the transcripts totally implied that jesse first confessed to killing them at noon. Kyle just wants to believe they are guilty so he is ignoring anything which might rumble that (no kyle you are not open minded stop claiming you are)

 

[Miranda!]

Inevitabley, by the tittle alone, this thread is going to just be a chance for nons to present all their arguments as any serious rebuttle would be to 'derail' it.

Maybe, with hindsight, a better name could have been 'What convinces you that DE could be considered a serious suspect?'

So, for anyone fairly new to the case, all the points against Echols above have been made before, been rebutted, and still continue to be made!

What is not in doubt is the fact that the trial was a travesty - so the argument that he was 'guilty because the jury said so' is no argument at all!

Sorry Ausgirl, but I felt the need to interject in the interests of being fair and balanced and all that!!

 

[Ausgirl]

I understand, But I'm asking for personal opinions, in order to collect a list that may be thoroughly agreed with or rebutted in another thread, which I'll make once I've collected enough 'viable suspects' for that purpose.

It'd be nice not to have wade through a bajillion arguments that have already been made, in order to gather the information and links and whatnot. Is all.

 

[kyleb]

so the argument that he was 'guilty because the jury said so' is no argument at all!

Rather, Echols is guilty because he committed the murders, as is proven beyond any reasonable doubt by the evidence which implicates him in having done so, both that which was presented to the jurors and otherwise. The travesty here is that Echols along with the filmmakers who concluded he wasn't guilty before even seeing the evidence presented at trial have duped so many into adopting their ill-founded arguments for innocence and attempts to scapegoat one parent of the victims after another.

Sorry Ausgirl, but I felt the need to interject in the interests of being fair and balanced and all that!!

Sure, "fair and balanced". Just like Fox News, eh?

It'd be nice not to have wade through a bajillion arguments that have already been made, in order to gather the information and links and whatnot.

Well you can avoid most of the those bajillion arguments by sleuthing down the actual evidence yourself, just as many have done before you.

 

[Ausgirl]

Dear gods, could you be any more condescending?

I ----already have--- all the "official" reasons, thanks, that can be found by a simple google search. I am asking for -opinions- here. Perhaps there's something that's been missed? Something we haven't thought about?

Know what? You win, kyleb. Just this once, I'm saying --I give the hell up -- and please do go ahead and argue and piss and moan and accuse people of poor research and wtf ever you want to fill this blasted thread up with. Have at it.

I'll take the actually useful things from this thread so far, and leave it to you and your rude *advertiser censored* self now.

 

[kyleb]

please do go ahead and argue and piss and moan and accuse people of poor research and wtf ever you want to fill this blasted thread up with.

I'd prefer to simply stick to discussing the evidence which makes Echols a viable suspect with people who actually provide links and details regarding what they've researched on the matter, and without getting pissed and moaned at by others for doing so.

 

[LordYAM]

that's the problem though. Whenever someone posts a link that disagrees you dismiss it. When people explain why sites like WM3truth are full of garbage you ignore it or accuse them of lying. People who think they are guilty also get pissed and moan when people who think they are innocent provide links and details regarding what they've researched on the matter. In fact they are even worse.
__________________

 

[missy_g]

I somehow missed this thread and I also skipped the last page and just briefly skimmed the others...

anyway


Inmates in prison are protected under the 8th amendment. They have complete and total access to medical care. Correctional facilities have to follow the rules regarding what is proper procedure.

If Damien would have complained that his teeth needed to be fixed, they would have fixed them even if they have to be pulled. If he denied having them pulled, then IMO that's HIS problem. Also I have never read about him having extensive dental work when out of prison but I have never researched it either.

I do agree that your eyes will atrophy over time if you are kept in low light areas and do have have the ability to excercise your eyes. We have ALL seen Damien wearing glasses...which means that he has had treatment for his eyes and vision.

He would be allowed medical care if he would need it.

My mom was a long time employee of Maryland Correction Insitute. She would tell me stories of inmates who receive medical care that most people would find unnecessary. There are transgendered inmates there who receive hormones everyday.

My aunt has a disease that affects her liver. She needed (needs) a transplant. She had a tough time getting on the transplant list. She was appalled when she learned that there was a death row inmate who was receiving a new liver (which I think later he was disqualified)

An inmate just recently received a 1 million dollar heart transplant. There are inmates on dialysis and who have received bone marrow transplants. There is also a rule that states before an inmate is executed they have to be healthy.

I read about a man who weighed 400 pounds and was taken of death row because he said he couldn't be executed correctly because of his health.

While I do agree that living on Death Row isn't like living in general population and definitely not like living in the real world, I do think that Damien has been overexaggerating on a lot of issues. This has caused me to change my opinion on him regarding his personality.

ETA: Also I have read about Damien only eating chips and junk food because he didn't like prison food. That's HIS fault. ANY kind of food would be better than chips or junk IMO.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

This is classic ..

ECHOLS: When you have to fight against the other lawyers as hard or harder as you do against the state. Jason [Baldwin]’s lawyers. Their entire agenda was to make me look as guilty as possible, thinking somehow it was going to help him. The number one thing that people quote is Exhibit 500, a mental health report, that comes from the fact that, one day, Jason’s attorneys contacted me and said they had this idea that would be really helpful and great. I was naive. It was years ago. OK, sure, let’s do it. This woman comes and writes up this report that diagnoses me with every single mental illness known to mankind. She can’t even file it herself because she’s already perjured herself and so she takes it to another doctor to file. The number one piece of evidence that people use to try and hurt me wasn’t even filed by the state. It was filed by Jason Baldwin’s attorneys.

http://www.hollywoodchicago.com/new...ien-echols-lorri-davis-travel-west-of-memphis

So now the Exhibit 500 isn't event a real medical history and it was filed by Jason's attorneys .. OK then.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

This would be comical if it was not someone's life and there was not evidence that pointed to a family member of the one of the 3 babies.

Damien spent years in prison. More than most spend for killing someone.

There was not evidence that was worth anything that convicted him.

I would think people would be more upset about that.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Since his release, and while in custody Damien has told a number of lies, mistruths, exaggerations .. call them what you will. I wonder what people think of this propensity of his to do this ..

Here is a recent interview which opens with a clanger: https://soundcloud.com/beaks-and-geeks/damien-echols-and-lorri-davis

'released due to DNA testing' starts at 1:20

Really? No mention of the Afford Plea?