WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[hominid]

make that 16 L, heading south, I will mark the time at 7:36 and see were I am at approx 8:12, I can even mark the date and it should give the "real time weather"

I will have 36 minutes to get somewhere passing Ariel and close to being level with ridgefield? let's see.

Y doncha also check when you get to some intermediate points along the way? Like, leveling off at 7K', the resume climb, the level off at 10K', the 1954 coordinates, etc.

BTW: Is it a -100 series you're flying? Any idea what engines? Engines changed a bit over the years. We can get the date when the plane came into service and maybe info on what engines it should have had. The amount of fuel for the flight is know, and the passenger load was small and could be estimated well, but we have no idea how much cargo or luggage the flight might have had.

 

[georger]

ok thanks, I will take 16 heading north, my simulator is pretty accurate, I was trying the flight earlier today but hit a mountain because I was only flying at 3800 and not looking out the window much:floorlaugh: trying to keep it steady with flaps and gear down is not easy, going to try again in a little while. I want to see how close I can get to matching the time frame,

34 r is at the sorth end of the runway, the other side is 16

This sounds neat!

Watch the mouintain (s) lease:

BTW Im working up a Doc on oscillations-bump merging Ckret's posts with actual interview
passages by Anderson and Rataczak. So, if I dont post much tonight that is what Im up to.
Will post it asap. Later. and stay tuned for the Venus transit tomorrow evening. Hubble is going to shoot the Lunar spectrum in IR looking for changes in the Sun's light due to the CO-CO2 atmosphere of Venus. Should be interesting. (if anyone here cares).
G

 

[georger]

Y doncha also check when you get to some intermediate points along the way? Like, leveling off at 7K', the resume climb, the level off at 10K', the 1954 coordinates, etc.

BTW: Is it a -100 series you're flying? Any idea what engines? Engines changed a bit over the years. We can get the date when the plane came into service and maybe info on what engines it should have had. The amount of fuel for the flight is know, and the passenger load was small and could be estimated well, but we have no idea how much cargo or luggage the flight might have had.

include flap settings ! gear down. icing near 8:12 ?

:what:

 

[MrShutter45]

include flap settings ! gear down. icing near 8:12 ?

:what:

Ok.....I did one run tonite, sadly I am running the 727-200 until I load the 100 series I just got, George, I need more info on the icing, I set the climate as follows, winds NE 16 Temp 48 degrees, cloud level at 5000 with light rain. flaps and gear were down

after 36 minutes my location was N45 degrees 40.27 W122 degrees 37.50 which if you look it up is Northern Vancouver, I was not on the same path (learning curve) but very close to it, I was amazed how far away I could see PDX, didn't have the same cloud cover.

The plane fles like a boat chpping through waves, was very hard to keep stable and altitude, speed etc. very challenging though, I will do another flight tomorrow night with input on weather data, it will accept barometric pressure, all that good stuf so bring it on :rocker:

here is a pic of my plane on 34-R


34R.png picture by dave767 - Photobucket

 

[MrShutter45]

I have the transcripts and will read up on them, I forgot about the different altitudes, I hope the 100 series will run on this system, says it will so let's hope, I want to try and get as much as possible correct, I only topped the tanks, didn't put ant other weight on it so we need to estimate some sort of weight.

 

[hominid]

I have the transcripts and will read up on them, I forgot about the different altitudes, I hope the 100 series will run on this system, says it will so let's hope, I want to try and get as much as possible correct, I only topped the tanks, didn't put ant other weight on it so we need to estimate some sort of weight.

If you can only put one weather condition in, Toledo is a midway point in the flight. When 305 got to it at 7:50, the atm pres was 29.98"Hg. Just 10 minutes later, the wx rpt for Toledo was:

Ceiling & OVC at 3000' measured. Very light showers. 42°F, dewpoint 40°F, 1015.1millibars (hPas now), 29.97"Hg, winds 5 kt from 190°.

7:40:37 Leveling at 7K'
7:42 14nm out of SEATAC, flaps 30°
7:45 19nm " " "
7:48 160KIAS, Going to 15° & starting climb
7:50 Toledo altimeter setting
7:51:31 Thru 9K' now
7:53:34 Leveling at 10K'
7:53:40 170-180KIAS

 

[georger]

Ok.....I did one run tonite, sadly I am running the 727-200 until I load the 100 series I just got, George, I need more info on the icing, I set the climate as follows, winds NE 16 Temp 48 degrees, cloud level at 5000 with light rain. flaps and gear were down

after 36 minutes my location was N45 degrees 40.27 W122 degrees 37.50 which if you look it up is Northern Vancouver, I was not on the same path (learning curve) but very close to it, I was amazed how far away I could see PDX, didn't have the same cloud cover.

The plane fles like a boat chpping through waves, was very hard to keep stable and altitude, speed etc. very challenging though, I will do another flight tomorrow night with input on weather data, it will accept barometric pressure, all that good stuf so bring it on :rocker:

here is a pic of my plane on 34-R


34R.png picture by dave767 - Photobucket

Nice. What software is this, if I may ask ?

Oh and if you can, shouldnt there be two cloud layers, one about 2500-3000 and one at 5000 ?

Will try to have the oscillation doc done but no guaratee for tomorrow - goingto be very
busy with observatory duty, people from Rockwell, etc etc etc. Will chime in when Im home.

Sounds like ur off to a great start.

 

[MrShutter45]

Nice. What software is this, if I may ask ?

Oh and if you can, shouldnt there be two cloud layers, one about 2500-3000 and one at 5000 ?

Will try to have the oscillation doc done but no guaratee for tomorrow - goingto be very
busy with observatory duty, people from Rockwell, etc etc etc. Will chime in when Im home.

Sounds like ur off to a great start.

It's Microsoft flight sim 2004, a bit out of date, been updating the files and adding planes, going to be loading the following software, seems to be the best upgrade for a 727-100

http://www.flight1.com/products.asp?product=ga727#d

 

[MrShutter45]

Nice. What software is this, if I may ask ?

Oh and if you can, shouldnt there be two cloud layers, one about 2500-3000 and one at 5000 ?

Will try to have the oscillation doc done but no guaratee for tomorrow - goingto be very
busy with observatory duty, people from Rockwell, etc etc etc. Will chime in when Im home.

Sounds like ur off to a great start.

Sounds good, looking forward to reading the document!

 

[MrShutter45]

If you can only put one weather condition in, Toledo is a midway point in the flight. When 305 got to it at 7:50, the atm pres was 29.98"Hg. Just 10 minutes later, the wx rpt for Toledo was:

Ceiling & OVC at 3000' measured. Very light showers. 42°F, dewpoint 40°F, 1015.1millibars (hPas now), 29.97"Hg, winds 5 kt from 190°.

7:40:37 Leveling at 7K'
7:42 14nm out of SEATAC, flaps 30°
7:45 19nm " " "
7:48 160KIAS, Going to 15° & starting climb
7:50 Toledo altimeter setting
7:51:31 Thru 9K' now
7:53:34 Leveling at 10K'
7:53:40 170-180KIAS

I really have to look this over good, there is advanced settings and even more advanced settings past that! I can change the weather along the route, this will take some time in order to get the best case scenario and of course the 100 series plane loaded into the factor.

I figure I will practice this week with what I have while uploading the things needed and getting use to all of the settings I never used. after you end the flight it even gives you a map detailing your flight path.

now for the dumb question :blushing: my gauge has a "air speed " indicator on it, am I correct in reading 200 mph on this gauge? it's the exact same gauge panel on the 727-100

 

[hominid]

I really have to look this over good, there is advanced settings and even more advanced settings past that! I can change the weather along the route, this will take some time in order to get the best case scenario and of course the 100 series plane loaded into the factor.

I figure I will practice this week with what I have while uploading the things needed and getting use to all of the settings I never used. after you end the flight it even gives you a map detailing your flight path.

now for the dumb question :blushing: my gauge has a "air speed " indicator on it, am I correct in reading 200 mph on this gauge? it's the exact same gauge panel on the 727-100

It would be in knots. Actually knots (indicated). KIAS

I've seen some info on engines and thrust that the 727 had over the years. I'm sure I can find some quick. If you can't set that into the program, we could at least get an idea what the difference would do. The communications had some fuel burn rates too.

If you can get to the point of being able to duplicate everything in a -100 all the way to Reno landing, there is info re. how much fuel they had left. I'll check, but my recollection is that they circled at least 3 times before landing at Reno. Maybe you could even determine roughly how much the non-fuel load was by trying a couple of estimates and seeing how close you come to having the right fuel at the end?

 

[Niner]

I too wanted to say

:welcome4:


:greetings:

and good to "see" you back too GeorgeR!

Glad to see this thread re-activated! I think Cooper survived his jump; you know McCoy sure looks a lot like the sketch drawing of Cooper - no??

 

[hominid]

It would be in knots. Actually knots (indicated). KIAS

I've seen some info on engines and thrust that the 727 had over the years. I'm sure I can find some quick.

What I've found so far on the engines has the problem most info re. "the 727" has. Doesn't distinguish between what went into the different 727s. So it is likely that later models of engines went on the -100c or -200. Still, even if we assume that all the models went into 727-100 series planes, we can narrow down the range of possibilities considerably.

N467US (S/N 18803) came off the line in April '65. Up to that time, only the JT8D-1 engine had been in service. It was rated at 14K lbs. The JT8D-7 came out in Mar '66 but it had the same rated thrust. The -9, out in May 1967, had 14.5K lb thrust, so there would have been little point to substituting it for the original equipment (unless for reasons other than thrust). The -11 had 15K lb thrust (Sep 68) and the -15 had 15.5K lb thrust, but it didn't come out until April '71 so there would not have been much of an opportunity to substitute it for the original engine. I would say almost certainty that N467US had engines rated for 14K lbs.

AND THANKS FOR THE WELCOME, NINER

 

[hominid]

I think Cooper survived his jump; you know McCoy sure looks a lot like the sketch drawing of Cooper - no??

I wouldn't go so far as to say I think he did. As far as I'm concerned, there was a good probability of it. Can't comment about resemblance. All the time I've been studying Cooper stuff I've hardly paid a bit of attention to suspects. So many, and I'm in no position to investigate them. If one lived in my back yard I'd probably pursue it. If the FBI proves someone specific was the perp, I'll still remain just as interested in figuring out what happened.

 

[hominid]

....we need to estimate some sort of weight.

I've seen nothing about how much cargo the flight was carrying. I suspect it would be small. We could estimate the luggage the passengers left on. I think that will be small too, but might as well put in the best guess just to increase the accuracy a little.

 

[MrShutter45]

I've seen nothing about how much cargo the flight was carrying. I suspect it would be small. We could estimate the luggage the passengers left on. I think that will be small too, but might as well put in the best guess just to increase the accuracy a little.

I think I have to wait until I purchase the upgrade package, the 100 series is hard to find for the 2004 century of flight, I have one but the dash is a 737, and does not fly like a 727, the stairs work though :floorlaugh:

I have been trying off and on for two days looking for the 100, plenty of 200's, I am just going to bite the bullet and get the package and do it right.

I figure I'll add a couple hundred lb's for cargo

 

[hominid]

I didn't follow the cord discussion on the darkzone, probably years ago. I think Ckret was still around. If I remember right, I think all of the cut cord was accounted for. I think it was figured out how much was used to wrap around the money bag and how much to tie it on, etc. Georger will recall. Have you found the dz info?

I searched a bit in the dark zone. All I found looks like it was all based on Carr saying there were two pieces of cord cut off the chute. Looked like the thinking was that one piece was used to tie the neck of the bag, wrap around the bag of money, and make a handle. The other piece was supposedly to tie the thing onto Coop. Apparently, Tina reported he was tying cord around himself - which really could have been something other than tying money bag on, like holding the raincoat close around him.

Anyway, it appears that Coop had lots of cord left over after whatever he did to the bag of money.

 

[MrShutter45]

I wouldn't go so far as to say I think he did. As far as I'm concerned, there was a good probability of it. Can't comment about resemblance. All the time I've been studying Cooper stuff I've hardly paid a bit of attention to suspects. So many, and I'm in no position to investigate them. If one lived in my back yard I'd probably pursue it. If the FBI proves someone specific was the perp, I'll still remain just as interested in figuring out what happened.

In reality, I think the Cooper sketch looks like half of America for that time period, another reason we have so many new Cooper wannabee's.

Marla followed Carr's advice a lot! "maybe someone has that long lost Uncle" the comics, his appearance, leaving out the fact of the birth issue I uncovered!

I'm pretty sure she read what McCoy did by landing 5 miles from his house, Marla stated LD landed 6 miles from his home :waitasec:

 

[hominid]

I have been trying off and on for two days looking for the 100, plenty of 200's, I am just going to bite the bullet and get the package and do it right.....

Didn't that package you identified earlier work out?

 

[MrShutter45]

Didn't that package you identified earlier work out?

that is the one I was talking about getting, I was trying to find it free first but have failed miserably in my search for the right 100 series, that program will be the real deal, you can even set the commands to actually go through the start up procedure, all of the panel instruments work, no dummy switches or knobs, the real McCoy :rocker: