WA WA - D.B. Cooper hijacking mystery, 24 Nov 1971 - #3

[Dan Cooper]

I agree the book is BS. A year ago, I might have also agreed with you that this case will never be solved. But not any more. DNA is making solving any case possible. The only way this case will not get solved with DNA, is if somebody is not doing their job.

DNA isn't magic... you need someone to compare it to.

Where else are they going to find Cooper's DNA? Supposedly it's on the clip-on tie, but do they have him in a criminal database? That's assuming it's even usable.

 

[SGkent]

if someone wanted to get their story out there how exactly would they do it? There are too many people involved in this just to sell a cheap book. Either this guy Reca was DB Cooper, or he claimed he was, there really isn't another explanation based on so many testimonies. The question then becomes how does one put him in Cle Elum that night? Without the full flight history of 305 we may never know. It could have swung out to the east waiting for the C-130 and 2 fighters. They tailed it we know from at t least Toledo and never saw anyone come out. If those were railroad flares so he could stop a train headed east thru Cle Elum, he may have had an accomplice aboard a train - he might not have mentioned it to protect that party. Unless someone finds money from that event, a parachute etc, we may never know for 100%.

 

[Gardener1850]

DNA isn't magic... you need someone to compare it to.

Where else are they going to find Cooper's DNA? Supposedly it's on the clip-on tie, but do they have him in a criminal database? That's assuming it's even usable.

I don't want to speak for KaaBoom, but I think the suggestion was made a few posts back that Cooper could be identified with familial DNA the same way they got the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker. The use of genealogical sites with DNA is a new technique that is solving many cold cases-- both criminal and unidentified bodies.

I do wonder if they would have enough DNA (or a good enough sample) in this case, however to make that a viable option. The DNA Doe Project (one group doing this sort of work) is identifying John Does and Jane Does with this technique but they have stated on their facebook page they need something like 200,000 markers to compare to ancestral DNA, whereas traditional DNA samples (what is in CODIS) only analyze a handful of markers (I forget the exact numbers). They were able to get a new DNA sample in Buckskin Doe's case from a vial of blood that had been stored without refrigeration. The sample was very degraded but they were still able to use it and identified her as Marcia King. The EAR/ONS case had large amounts of his DNA stored from crime scenes (most likely seminal fluids IMO) so LE was able to get a new analysis done to compare with the GedMatch Site (or whatever site they used). In the DB Cooper case, however, there is no vial of blood or large amount of fluids on file. The DNA they have is likely "touch DNA", maybe they have his skin cells and hair? That's not much to work with. That said, who knows. Technology is rapidly evolving. They may be able to identify him someday with that DNA or with some other new technique.

 

[KaaBoom]

DNA isn't magic... you need someone to compare it to.

Where else are they going to find Cooper's DNA? Supposedly it's on the clip-on tie, but do they have him in a criminal database? That's assuming it's even usable.

He doesn't need to be in a criminal DNA database. We have massive public DNA databases now, that can be checked. And his DNA doesn't even have to be in the database to identified him. He can be identified from even one relative who is in the database, and most if not all Americans have at least one relative who has uploaded their DNA to a database.

The clip-on tie should have more than enough of Cooper's DNA on it. But if that is not enough, they have Cooper's cigarette butts. DNA samples don't get a lot better then cigarette butts. Those have to have a lot Cooper's DNA all over them.

Data on a genealogy site led police to the ‘Golden State Killer’ suspect. Now others worry about a ‘treasure trove of data’

 

[KaaBoom]

The question then becomes how does one put him in Cle Elum that night? Without the full flight history of 305 we may never know. It could have swung out to the east waiting for the C-130 and 2 fighters.

First, the FBI has released a map of the entire flight path. It did not go anywhere near Cle Elum. Second there was no need for them to wait for any of the fighter aircraft. Per Cooper's instructions they were already flying as slow as possible. The fighters would have caught up to them within minutes. Third, the flight crew was very worried about running out of fuel. They would have had no reason to fly out of the way.
D.B. Cooper Redux

 

[Dan Cooper]

Is it definitely the case that they have cigarette butts? This was the early 70s, so it may not have occurred to them that such evidence would have been of any use.

It would be fascinating if they could indeed catch Cooper via something like Ancestry DNA, as with DeAngelo.

Fingers crossed!

 

[KaaBoom]

Is it definitely the case that they have cigarette butts? This was the early 70s, so it may not have occurred to them that such evidence would have been of any use.

It would be fascinating if they could indeed catch Cooper via something like Ancestry DNA, as with DeAngelo.

Fingers crossed!

Yes, according to the FBI report, the cigarette butts have been preserved as evidence. They also have samples of what they believe is his hair that can be used to match DNA.

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
11/26/71
The ash tray from the seat reportedly occupied by
the unknown subject was examined and noted to contain a number of cork tipped cigarette butts. Those cigarette butts were obtained by SA JOHN F. KICKS.

The contents of ash tray used by the subject and a towel removed from the rear of the seat he allegedly occupied, were submitted the FBI Laboratory on 12/7/71 by the Las Vegas Division.

The Laboratory, by communication 12/13/71;
advised that no latent-fingerprints had been developed as
a result of examining the contents of the ash tray.

The Laboratory advised however, that the ash tray
contained eight cigarette butts, seven of which are Raleigh
85mm filter tipped cigarettes. The eighth cigarette butt
has the same design and composition as Raleigh 85mm
cigarettes and accordingly, probably is a Raleigh 85mm
filter tipped cigarette. This type of cigarette is sold
in a "soft pack."

The FBI Laboratory by communication dated 12/9/71,
advised that an examination of the towel submitted by the
Las Vegas Office, disclosed a brown head hair clipping and
a brown limb hair, both of Caucasian origin. The report
continued that the head hair clipping is suitable for
significant comparison results, but that the limb hair
possesses too few unique microscopic characteristics to
be of value for that purpose.

The contents of the ash tray, the towel and the
microscopic slide were returned by the Laboratory to the
Las Vegas Office and are being held by the Las Vegas
Division as evidence.

 

[SGkent]

Second there was no need for them to wait for any of the fighter aircraft. Per Cooper's instructions they were already flying as slow as possible. The fighters would have caught up to them within minutes. Third, the flight crew was very worried about running out of fuel. They would have had no reason to fly out of the way.

Please direct me to where I can see it. Everything plot I have been able to find starts at or near Toledo WA. Need to see the FBI plot from SeaTac to Toledo.

 

[KaaBoom]

Please direct me to where I can see it. Everything plot I have been able to find starts at or near Toledo WA. Need to see the FBI plot from SeaTac to Toledo.

Here, bottom of the page.
D.B. Cooper Redux

 

[SGkent]

Here, bottom of the page.
D.B. Cooper Redux

Thank you. That map starts 100 miles south of SeaTac. What is the aircraft path from SeaTac to there? Until the FBI publishes that first segment, or someone figures it out from the crime file, we are guessing. If that plane was instructed to fly around Seattle to the east on the way south to avoid being blown up over Seattle, then Cle Elum becomes quite real. Both the train lines and US 10 went from Seattle thru Cle Elum at that time. All that said I have no idea how he could get so far east any other way. It is inconceivable he could have been blown that far.

 

[KaaBoom]

Thank you. That map starts 100 miles south of SeaTac. What is the aircraft path from SeaTac to there? Until the FBI publishes that first segment, or someone figures it out from the crime file, we are guessing. If that plane was instructed to fly around Seattle to the east on the way south to avoid being blown up over Seattle, then Cle Elum becomes quite real. Both the train lines and US 10 went from Seattle thru Cle Elum at that time. All that said I have no idea how he could get so far east any other way. It is inconceivable he could have been blown that far.

Actually the map starts about 50 air miles south of SeaTac. I believe that was where the Air Force started tracking it at.

If the pilots were instructed to fly east, then why doesn't the FBI report reflect that? The pilots gave very detailed statements to the FBI, but they said nothing about being instructed to fly east. The second problem is, have you looked at the maps for that route? If they flew east to Cle Elum and then turned south, they would have crashed into the side of Mt. Rainier. Cooper would only let them fly under 10,000. If there flew anywhere east, they would have been flying below the mountain peaks. That would have been crazy dangerous flying.

 

[SGkent]

The FBI map begins half way between Lake Alder and Centralia with the course being SSW. If one extends that course north it ends up slightly east of SeaTac. There is one old article where the pilot and the FBI agent assigned to the case, them speaking only on the phone in the early years, met years later where they discussed the event in person. The pilot said during that interview that he thought the jump point the FBI chose was about 40 miles too far west. The map that exists comes from the evidence box but it is not an official track - it is assumed to be an official track because it was in the box. Marked on it is " first plot" whatever that means. Are there other plots? All that said, and I am not accusing anyone but if the stairs were lowered twice, once when further north then raised to build pressure, and if Cooper caught a laminar flow around Ranier then he would have ended up in Cle Elum for real. The door was thought to officially lower at 8:12 that evening but that was a guess because no one was keeping notes assuming the guy would never be caught. And, if the door were lowered twice then the money bundle found could be money tossed out that Cooper offered for the crew. He simply would have left it in a place for them to find it in case they changed their minds. If they didn't then it blew out over the Tena Bar area. There are too many witnesses who have confirmed Reca's story including the paper who located the witnesses. One would have to ask if the whole town was in on it as an April fools joke, which I don't believe they were.

 

[ColyH]

I will always believe that Cooper died in the jump. The weather was horrible that night and the temperature was reported to be in the teens and that's not counting the wind and not being dressed for that weather. Even if he lands safely he is soaked from the rain and is now outside in winter like conditions.

 

[KaaBoom]

I will always believe that Cooper died in the jump. The weather was horrible that night and the temperature was reported to be in the teens and that's not counting the wind and not being dressed for that weather. Even if he lands safely he is soaked from the rain and is now outside in winter like conditions.

Yeah, and if he survived, he would have had to surface somewhere. I'm pretty sure his body is nothing more than a few bone fragments on the bottom of the Columbia River by now.

 

[folieadeuxnola]

Skyjacker D.B. Cooper revealed real identity in 1972 letter to The Oregonian, code-breaker claims

The infamous skyjacker known as D.B. Cooper revealed his real identity to The Oregonian in March 1972, just a few months after he parachuted from Northwest Orient Flight 305 and disappeared.

That's the conclusion of a longtime Cooper-case researcher who recently examined the letter with a former Army code-breaker.

For the past couple of years, TV producer Thomas Colbert has been trying to convince the FBI that he and his team of retired law-enforcement and military officers have figured out who Cooper is -- a former paratrooper and Vietnam War veteran named Robert Rackstraw.

Colbert is the author of the 2016 book "The Last Master Outlaw," in which he lays out his evidence against Rackstraw, and producer of the History Channel documentary "D.B. Cooper: Case Closed."

 

[Tricia]

Since there is breaking news in the case and this thread is already long I've started a new D.B. Cooper thread.

CLICK HERE to continue the discussion.