WA - Jet pilot, Weldon "Marc" Gilbert has right to view child *advertiser censored* he created in jail

[Filly]

The appeal of having sex with children simply escapes me.

But even more baffling is finding any enjoyment in sex when the other person is screaming with pain.

I so wish the appeal escaped every single freak that's out there hurting kids, Nova. Who knows what these people get out of it, but it's obvious they can't even begin to control their impulses. They all need to be locked up. First Offense. No questions. No bail. Nada. Imagine the horror for these children for the rest of their lives thanks to this freak.

 

[Taximom]

This guy is just like John Wayne Gacy. He got enjoyment out of torturing his victims too. They have their own special category.

I hope there aren't any missing young boys where he's travelled or lived.

I feel sorry for his mom.

 

[Filly]

This guy is just like John Wayne Gacy. He got enjoyment out of torturing his victims too. They have their own special category.

I hope there aren't any missing young boys where he's travelled or lived.

I feel sorry for his mom.

Heaven help us. That name "Gacy" alone is frightening. He's lived as far as I could see in Sumner, Pullman, Bonney Lake all in Washington. McMinnville, OR. Then in, Oxnard, Lake Arrowhead, and Burbank, California. No doubt this guy has been to places like Thailand and such. I mean a millionaire with an airplane, helicopter can go anywhere. You are kind to feel for his mom, Taxi Mom. I don't. Then again, how was she supposed to know. She's probably elderly obviously. Hopefully they'll get the rest of the freaks involved in this because these pedophiles with *advertiser censored* they can't help but share it. All around poor impulse control.

 

[Nova]

I so wish the appeal escaped every single freak that's out there hurting kids, Nova. Who knows what these people get out of it, but it's obvious they can't even begin to control their impulses. They all need to be locked up. First Offense. No questions. No bail. Nada. Imagine the horror for these children for the rest of their lives thanks to this freak.

You'll get no argument from me.

 

[Nova]

Rape isn't the same as sex, and it is about power. I would imagine the person screaming in pain would just heighten the perpetrator's sense of power, and hence, his pleasure.

I'm sure you're right that the power and even outright sadism are the appeal, I'm just saying it's incomprehensible to me.

Rape obviously isn't the same as sex for most of us, IM. And I understand why the "rape is violence not sex" argument is an important political distinction, because somebody had to find a way to get juries to stop thinking of rape as a "sex act" between two participants and to start recognizing that rape is violently imposed on one person by another.

But in fact, and whether or not it's p.c. to say so, sex for most people involves a certain amount of play with dominance and submission. That's why we have centuries of art concerned with "seduction." (There was a movement in the 70s among radical feminists to construct perfectly egalitarian sex acts, with nobody "on top," both partners equally active, etc. I think most now admit it was not only awkward, but not very hot.)

Even acknowledging that much, however, I think most of us have a very deep instinct to comfort and console a child who cries out in pain. That someone would not only fail to comfort, but prolong the pain... It's hard to imagine he is of the same species as we (even though I know he is).

 

[IrishMist]

I'm sure you're right that the power and even outright sadism are the appeal, I'm just saying it's incomprehensible to me.

Rape obviously isn't the same as sex for most of us, IM. And I understand why the "rape is violence not sex" argument is an important political distinction, because somebody had to find a way to get juries to stop thinking of rape as a "sex act" between two participants and to start recognizing that rape is violently imposed on one person by another.

But in fact, and whether or not it's p.c. to say so, sex for most people involves a certain amount of play with dominance and submission. That's why we have centuries of art concerned with "seduction." (There was a movement in the 70s among radical feminists to construct perfectly egalitarian sex acts, with nobody "on top," both partners equally active, etc. I think most now admit it was not only awkward, but not very hot.)

Even acknowledging that much, however, I think most of us have a very deep instinct to comfort and console a child who cries out in pain. That someone would not only fail to comfort, but prolong the pain... It's hard to imagine he is of the same species as we (even though I know he is).

I agree that it is an important political distinction, IMO, it is an important distinction, period. Not just in discussion, but also in the way everyday people think of it. One of the most important things that a child who has been raped needs to learn is that they are still a virgin. That they haven't had sex yet. To cope with it for what is was. A violent act that was perpetrated upon them.

It may seem a small matter- splitting hairs, if you will. But, again IMO, for a rape survivor, it's an important one. For the way people perceive rape and its survivors, it's important.

I don't mean to nit-pick you, Nova, it's a concept that I cannot let go by me without comment. Kind of like when people think the U.S. is a Democracy... I just have to jump in.

 

[Nova]

I agree that it is an important political distinction, IMO, it is an important distinction, period. Not just in discussion, but also in the way everyday people think of it. One of the most important things that a child who has been raped needs to learn is that they are still a virgin. That they haven't had sex yet. To cope with it for what is was. A violent act that was perpetrated upon them.

It may seem a small matter- splitting hairs, if you will. But, again IMO, for a rape survivor, it's an important one. For the way people perceive rape and its survivors, it's important.

I don't mean to nit-pick you, Nova, it's a concept that I cannot let go by me without comment. Kind of like when people think the U.S. is a Democracy... I just have to jump in.

I don't think you're nit-picking, IM. I agree the semantics are important to jurors and to victims. I wish we'd confine the whole concept of "virginity" to the dustbin of history along with chastity belts and corsets. But the idea that a rape victim is no longer a "virgin" is outrageous. (I'm talking to YOU, Ann Landers!)

But I'm not sure that defining power and sex as mutually exclusive helps us to understand rapists. Put another way, if a serially rapist or child molester engages in no other sexual activity, would you call him a virgin? And if so, how would that be helpful?

 

[IrishMist]

I don't think you're nit-picking, IM. I agree the semantics are important to jurors and to victims. I wish we'd confine the whole concept of "virginity" to the dustbin of history along with chastity belts and corsets. But the idea that a rape victim is no longer a "virgin" is outrageous. (I'm talking to YOU, Ann Landers!)

But I'm not sure that defining power and sex as mutually exclusive helps us to understand rapists. Put another way, if a serially rapist or child molester engages in no other sexual activity, would you call him a virgin? And if so, how would that be helpful?

Well, now we'd be moving into an area that would be more up South City Mom's alley. I've never given much consideration to the rapist or molester, to be honest with you. I have learned from her that there are differences between pedophiles, so I guess we'd have to delve into the different types, and what drives them in order to answer your question.

And while the concept of "virginity" may be antiquated, it is still a milestone for most people, and part of their growing up.

Don't tell me Ann Landers thinks rape victims lose their virginity??? First I learn that Sean Connery is an idiot, and now I'm finding out that Ann Landers holds this ludicrous opinion?? What is this world coming to? :doh:

 

[southcitymom]

Well, now we'd be moving into an area that would be more up South City Mom's alley. I've never given much consideration to the rapist or molester, to be honest with you. I have learned from her that there are differences between pedophiles, so I guess we'd have to delve into the different types, and what drives them in order to answer your question.

And while the concept of "virginity" may be antiquated, it is still a milestone for most people, and part of their growing up.

Don't tell me Ann Landers thinks rape victims lose their virginity??? First I learn that Sean Connery is an idiot, and now I'm finding out that Ann Landers holds this ludicrous opinion?? What is this world coming to? :doh:

You rang? LOL! But not at this topic.....

I would say that virginity must be "lost" willingly. That word would be my distinction for purposes of this discussion. I would assume that a rapist was willing to complete the sex act when they raped and so I would not consider them a virgin were rape the only type of non-solo sex they ever had.

 

[Filly]

One of the most important things that a child who has been raped needs to learn is that they are still a virgin. That they haven't had sex yet. To cope with it for what is was. A violent act that was perpetrated upon them.

Great point, IM. However when living with that in secret until adulthood it's an entirely different scenario. The not even knowing what sex is as an act because you're so young wrecks havoc along the way. It effects every single relationship we ever have up the road. This is why it's so very important to teach our children that they don't have to respect every adult because they are authority figures. You're not comfortable then too bad some adult gets offended. It's such a fine line. This is why these horrendous acts horrify me. So many lives hurt and manipulated and twisted thanks to one person who can't control their impulses. Interesting I never was a person even questioned the virginity thing. I had no definition for it. It wasn't in my vocabulary. Hmmm, something to bring up in therapy. LOL Seriously!

 

[IrishMist]

Great point, IM. However when living with that in secret until adulthood it's an entirely different scenario. The not even knowing what sex is as an act because you're so young wrecks havoc along the way. It effects every single relationship we ever have up the road. This is why it's so very important to teach our children that they don't have to respect every adult because they are authority figures. You're not comfortable then too bad some adult gets offended. It's such a fine line. This is why these horrendous acts horrify me. So many lives hurt and manipulated and twisted thanks to one person who can't control their impulses. Interesting I never was a person even questioned the virginity thing. I had no definition for it. It wasn't in my vocabulary. Hmmm, something to bring up in therapy. LOL Seriously!

Great post, Filly, and I agree.

It does have an effect on survivors and their relationships. That's why it's so important in my opinion for survivors to learn how to cope and thrive- despite what has been done to them.

And not having a definition is a problem, too. Not being able to tell what happened to you, because you don't have the words to explain what happened. Now they have dolls, and therapists, that's a step in the right direction, I think.

One thing I learned is that how it affects people can change throughout their lives. You might have a handle on it for a period of time, then something at some point in your life might trigger emotions. Not always the same trigger, not always the same emotions. Therapy at different stages of life isn't unusual.

The virginity thing is important thing, IMO. Like SCM said, it's when you first give yourself willingly. Too many survivors didn't learn that, and as a result have lived with unhealthy or un-enjoyable sex lives. Too many teens think their first time doesn't matter, because "I'm not a virgin anyway."

 

[Nova]

Well, now we'd be moving into an area that would be more up South City Mom's alley. I've never given much consideration to the rapist or molester, to be honest with you. I have learned from her that there are differences between pedophiles, so I guess we'd have to delve into the different types, and what drives them in order to answer your question.

And while the concept of "virginity" may be antiquated, it is still a milestone for most people, and part of their growing up.

Don't tell me Ann Landers thinks rape victims lose their virginity??? First I learn that Sean Connery is an idiot, and now I'm finding out that Ann Landers holds this ludicrous opinion?? What is this world coming to? :doh:

I may be confusing Ann with her sister, Dear Abby, who still publishes a column. But I read a column from one of them where she answered, no, a molested child is no longer a virgin and needs help to reconcile herself to that fact. I was furious! As far as I'm concerned, we might as well argue that a girl who gets bounced vigorously on a horse is "no longer a virgin"!

And you didn't know about Connery? Where have you been?

 

[IrishMist]

I may be confusing Ann with her sister, Dear Abby, who still publishes a column. But I read a column from one of them where she answered, no, a molested child is no longer a virgin and needs help to reconcile herself to that fact. I was furious! As far as I'm concerned, we might as well argue that a girl who gets bounced vigorously on a horse is "no longer a virgin"!

And you didn't know about Connery? Where have you been?

That's what I've been wondering!! Apparently, under a rock or something. :loser:

 

[Nova]

...The virginity thing is important thing, IMO. Like SCM said, it's when you first give yourself willingly. Too many survivors didn't learn that, and as a result have lived with unhealthy or un-enjoyable sex lives. Too many teens think their first time doesn't matter, because "I'm not a virgin anyway."

I understand that you're saying the issue of "virginity" must be dealt with because it is an important concept in our culture.

But I hate the concept. "Not a virgin anyway" isn't a good reason to have sex, regardless of what your previous experiences may have been. And what could be worse than the notion that once you've "lost it," all future sexual encounters are somehow trivial and unimportant.

I have no problem with the idea that rape may be sex to the rapist even while it is most certainly NOT sex to the victim.

Because the "rape is violence not sex" mantra--at least when we're considering the psychology of the rapist--makes rape sound like a barroom brawl. I think we'll agree it is mostly not.

 

[Nova]

That's what I've been wondering!! Apparently, under a rock or something. :loser:

What did he do now? I thought his days of punching women were behind him.

 

[IrishMist]

What did he do now? I thought his days of punching women were behind him.

I'm not sure that he's done anything new, it's just the first I've heard about it, when apparently, everyone BUT me knew! Sheesh. Sure seems like ONE of y'all could have told me...

 

[IrishMist]

I understand that you're saying the issue of "virginity" must be dealt with because it is an important concept in our culture.

But I hate the concept. "Not a virgin anyway" isn't a good reason to have sex, regardless of what your previous experiences may have been. And what could be worse than the notion that once you've "lost it," all future sexual encounters are somehow trivial and unimportant.

I have no problem with the idea that rape may be sex to the rapist even while it is most certainly NOT sex to the victim.

Because the "rape is violence not sex" mantra--at least when we're considering the psychology of the rapist--makes rape sound like a barroom brawl. I think we'll agree it is mostly not.

It's certainly not a good reason, but it's a common thought for children that have been raped. It stems from emotions, and emotions, by their very nature, are not always logical. I think it probably goes hand in hand with shame, humiliation, feeling worthless... so many other "normal" feelings a child that's been raped feels, and carries with them.

 

[Nova]

I'm not sure that he's done anything new, it's just the first I've heard about it, when apparently, everyone BUT me knew! Sheesh. Sure seems like ONE of y'all could have told me...

Honey, I believe the "sometimes a woman needs a slap" interview was in the 1980s!

 

[csds703]

I'm not sure that he's done anything new, it's just the first I've heard about it, when apparently, everyone BUT me knew! Sheesh. Sure seems like ONE of y'all could have told me...

I didn't know this either. Where have we been?:doh:

 

[IrishMist]

I didn't know this either. Where have we been?:doh:

:woohoo: I got back up!!

Knew I could count on you, CSDS! :blowkiss:

Sorry about the hijack of the hijack, people. :blushing: If anyone wants to post on topic now, I'll try to behave. :silenced: