WA - Mackenzie Cowell, 17, Wenatchee, 9 Feb 2010 - #9

[slowbutsteady]

I wouldn't count on it- knowing it was the crime scene. I have a feeling that a lot of very crucial points to this case are not being disclosed at this point. I wish we knew what it was that upset the person walking through the spec home.

How do we know anything upset the person in the spec home...do we actually know someone was walking thru the spec home?

 

[giddyup]

I wouldn't count on it- knowing it was the crime scene. I have a feeling that a lot of very crucial points to this case are not being disclosed at this point. I wish we knew what it was that upset the person walking through the spec home.

I agree. The RUMOR that blood was discovered in the spec house is still in the mill. I was just told that RUMOR again today.

 

[pufnstuf]

If we speculate that he placed Mackenzie at Cresent Bar, before dumping her car we can subtract another 1.5 to 2 hours from this timeline. He would have had about an hour.

In that hour's time, they had to leave the boatramp area to go somewhere secluded. Had to argue. Had to struggle. Had to wash up. Had to freak out? or Not?

Salem

Very doable.

 

[pufnstuf]

Using pufnstuf's map, with all the locations that have been discussed in the last weeks, and of course, keeping the very important "unknown location" in mind - what stands out as a possible crime scene?

I'm going to discount the spec house, because LE has searched it, correct? If it was the missing crime scene, I'm pretty sure we would know that by now.

Salem

A workshop. A barn. A construction site. Somewhere outdoors, isolated, maybe in the woods. Somewhere that MC and killer could park their vehicles without being seen by others. Somewhere that they could fight, argue, scream, struggle with no fear of anyone hearing. Somewhere where kids go parking. Or walk trails. Maybe a park outside of town. I don't see this being done in a home in a populated community.

 

[h20skiier]

Warning: Graphic!
I think this is a fairly probably order of events for the COD:
1. Killer either from along side of, or behind MC slams her head against something hard (Kitchen counter,etc)
2. Killer begins strangulation with hands from behind.
3. Things are not going as easily as killer expects, and reaches for something close to stab MC in the back of the neck with.
4. It is over quickly after stabbing.

If the killer left the object impaled until later, it is possible there could have been minimal blood loss. Puncture wounds actually do not tend to bleed as much as one would think. I'm assuming the stabbing is a singular event or the COD would have said multiple stab wounds.

 

[Liz]

Here is Salem's link made into a tiny url:

http://tiny.cc/FedSa

 

[pufnstuf]

Hey, Liz.. did you see in the previous thread? We now have a cause of death as listed on the death certificate.

 

[deborahr509]

I noticed you are referring to "perp" rather than initials. Something specific change your minds or were the initials inappropriate?

 

[Salem]

A workshop. A barn. A construction site. Somewhere outdoors, isolated, maybe in the woods. Somewhere that MC and killer could park their vehicles without being seen by others. Somewhere that they could fight, argue, scream, struggle with no fear of anyone hearing. Somewhere where kids go parking. Or walk trails. Maybe a park outside of town. I don't see this being done in a home in a populated community.

I agree. I'm thinking the missing crime scene is the vehicle of the perp. I have to go back and edit my post. I forgot one of the most important timeline points. The 5:40 p.m. ping. :crazy:

Salem

 

[ajfa]

I agree. I'm thinking the missing crime scene is the vehicle of the perp. I have to go back and edit my post. I forgot one of the most important timeline points. The 5:40 p.m. ping. :crazy:

Salem

I tend to think the same in regard to the crime scene being the perps vehicle. But there would need to be sufficient room to move around, given the COD. So I'm thinking large cab pickup, extended cab, maybe even enough room to conceal a body until MC's car could be ditched? Just thinking out loud.

Also, the thought comes to mind of a construction site, or one of those trailers sometimes seen on construction sites that are used as an office. I'm thinking maybe a construction site on which work has stalled because of financial reasons, or some other reason? Such a site might be a source of mud or dirt on MC's car.

Just more speculating . . .

 

[girlfawkes]

Could it be that LE does in fact know where the homocide occurred but is just not letting that out yet???

I have to wonder if this talk of a 3rd scene is perhaps a red herring tactic used by LE to lull the perp into revisiting one of the aforementioned areas to try and get rid of any evidence he may have left behind, or perhaps to just give him a temporary feeling of security.

I just think that the timeline is so tight here that LE is probably fully aware of all the movements of Mac and the POI in the time frame in question. Of course, that's assuming that she was killed before her car was found.

 

[greydiggity]

I tend to think the same in regard to the crime scene being the perps vehicle. But there would need to be sufficient room to move around, given the COD. So I'm thinking large cab pickup, extended cab, maybe even enough room to conceal a body until MC's car could be ditched? Just thinking out loud.

Also, the thought comes to mind of a construction site, or one of those trailers sometimes seen on construction sites that are used as an office. I'm thinking maybe a construction site on which work has stalled because of financial reasons, or some other reason? Such a site might be a source of mud or dirt on MC's car.

Just more speculating . . .

I can't imagine this being a vehicle. The blunt force trauma? Strangulation, maybe, but not BFT or stabbing. They would never be able to clean that. Unless there is a missing vehicle from someone in question, I cannot imagine.

Thoughts of JF hiring someone to do this have crossed my mind. He would make sure he had an air tight alibi, no signs of a struggle, no DNA. Did he set up a drug deal with the jailed "R"'s which in turn led to a premeditated murder? "R"'s could have been picked up on prints and they are not talking?

 

[ajfa]

I can't imagine this being a vehicle. The blunt force trauma? Strangulation, maybe, but not BFT or stabbing. They would never be able to clean that. Unless there is a missing vehicle from someone in question, I cannot imagine.

It would seem that there would indeed be limited room for such acts, but perhaps the vehicle is just where it started.

 

[Salem]

The 5:42 p.m. is significant, I believe. I don't think this was Mackenzie - but whoever had her phone and her keys - the perp. I would venture to guess that the missing crime scene is very close to that ping locations.

All the possible locations that have been thrown out are very good possibilities. If we knew where the 5:42 ping location was, we could draw a circle around it that fit the timeline of having Mackenzie's car in the Canyon by 7:00 p.m. - thats 1 hour and 20 minutes away, approximately.

I'm trying to do geometry in my head - never was any good at geometry. But... if we drew a circle about the boat ramp for the 3:42 text message time gap and then a circle around Pitcher Canyon for the 5:42 ping location time gap - do you think we could see a possible location where the circles might overlap?

I'm not sure - my mind is going to fast. I need to go do my dishes and think about this

Salem

 

[slowbutsteady]

I just thought of something...I can't recall whether her clothes were wet or dry?? What if the perp(s) killed her at CB in the water...be it in the Columbia River or in the stream/pond? Think about it...if it was out say 3-4 ft in the Columbia River, the blood evidence would be swept down the river....???

 

[greydiggity]

I just thought of something...I can't recall whether her clothes were wet or dry?? What if the perp(s) killed her at CB in the water...be it in the Columbia River or in the stream/pond? Think about it...if it was out say 3-4 ft in the Columbia River, the blood evidence would be swept down the river....???

Would she not have water in her lungs, to some degree. With the blunt force trauma and the strangling, would she have had a chance to inhale?

 

[girlfawkes]

I just thought of something...I can't recall whether her clothes were wet or dry?? What if the perp(s) killed her at CB in the water...be it in the Columbia River or in the stream/pond? Think about it...if it was out say 3-4 ft in the Columbia River, the blood evidence would be swept down the river....???

I've thought this may be possible too.

Blunt force trauma and strangulation would most likely not leave a lot of blood evidence, and if she was stabbed very close to her death or right before strangulation there may not have been a lot of blood loss then either.

Assuming she was killed at CB, on the beach, any blood evidence may also have been washed away by fluctuating river levels and precipitation.

They have never stated whether her clothes were wet or dry or if she has been fully, mostly or partially submerged. We do know for sure that she was close enough to water for her feet to be in it.

 

[slowbutsteady]

Would she not have water in her lungs, to some degree. With the blunt force trauma and the strangling, would she have had a chance to inhale?

I don't think so - I'm not sure what JF's build is but she could have been knocked out say on the beach maybe and then he could have held her up somewhat and got into the water with his arm around her neck like in a choke hold...my bro's used to do that to me all the time and I had a heck of a time getting away from them when we were just playing!...Anyway, if he actually chocked her to death, stabbed her, she wouldn't be breathing in to get any water in the lungs...:twocents:

 

[ajfa]

Regarding the COD, the blunt force trauma and strangulation seems plausible in that order, but the stab wound seems totally superfluous. Perhaps the stab wound was postmortem and happened when a knife or other sharp instrument slipped when cutting tape, or something else? In that case there might not be much blood evidence at all, especially if rigor mortis had set in.

Just speculating . . .

ETA - But then, the stab wound was listed as a COD. I would think they would be able to tell if it was postmortem or not.

 

[giddyup]

Regarding the COD, the blunt force trauma and strangulation seems plausible in that order, but the stab wound seems totally superfluous. Perhaps the stab wound was postmortem and happened when a knife or other sharp instrument slipped when cutting tape, or something else? In that case there might not be much blood evidence at all, especially if rigor mortis had set in.

Just speculating . . .

If that were the case, I don't think the stab would have been listed as the COD, much less second in the order of causes. I'm not sure the order of causes listed is of significance, but could be?

ETA: But then the headline reads "stabbed, strangled" and the article reads "strangled, stabbed"....nevermind!