WA - Pasco police shoot man after he threw rocks at cars and at them, resisted, fled

[katydid23]

Your daughter as able to assure them that he was not armed. That helped a lot.

 

[katydid23]

My ex-husband (kids' dad) is mentally ill. A few weeks ago, my daughter called 911 because he was off his meds, paranoid, and lunged at her. Now my ex is my ex for many reasons, but he would not normally try to harm his child. (It was a result of being off of his meds along with what turned out to be a systemic infection.) My daughter told the police there were no weapons other than kitchen cutlery, but he was not armed.
The police came to the house and he did try to hit them. They DID NOT SHOOT HIM. Instead, they held him down with legal, non-lethal force until the medic gave him a sedative. They then brought him to the hospital.

See? Police can handle being "threatened" without lethal force. Thank goodness. It went exactly as it should have gone and my ex is now getting medical and psychiatric care.

BBM

Interesting that the word threatened has quotes around it. Does that mean there is doubt that cops feel threatened in these situations?

Your anecdote is one which includes your loved one, in which you know and love him and know he would never harm anyone. the cops do not have that knowledge.

My son is a first responder with a bullet proof vest and a gun. his first priority is to go home safely to his family each night. He does not ever want to use lethal force, but will if it ever becomes necessary.

When he does deal with mentally ill suspects it is very scary. They often react in impulsive and confusing ways. The cops do not have the background information that the suspect's friends and families have. They want everyone to go home safely.

 

[Woodland]

Ok, I am confused. I tutored these kids as my job. It was not a charity that I did for free. Although I did do many things out of pocket when it was necessary.

It was very nice of you to send those babies those gifts every month. But I am not sure of the connection to this thread.

Not to take away from StephanieH post - but ditto - what is the connection to this thread of our past deeds? Including yours that you have posted?

 

[StephanieH]

She was able to assure them that he didn't have a gun. There were knives available. I don't think anyone blames cops for shooting when there is an armed suspect. It's the unarmed and mentally ill people (like my ex) who people are getting angry about. My ex is white and lives in a middle class neighborhood, so that probably helped as well.

 

[Woodland]

My ex-husband (kids' dad) is mentally ill. A few weeks ago, my daughter called 911 because he was off his meds, paranoid, and lunged at her. Now my ex is my ex for many reasons, but he would not normally try to harm his child. (It was a result of being off of his meds along with what turned out to be a systemic infection.) My daughter told the police there were no weapons other than kitchen cutlery, but he was not armed.
The police came to the house and he did try to hit them. They DID NOT SHOOT HIM. Instead, they held him down with legal, non-lethal force until the medic gave him a sedative. They then brought him to the hospital.

See? Police can handle being "threatened" without lethal force. Thank goodness. It went exactly as it should have gone and my ex is now getting medical and psychiatric care.

I am happy for your daughter - and you StephanieH - it was the right thing for LE to do - totally within their means. If anyone in my family should have such a problem in the future - I hope they have the same outcome as your ex and father of your child(ren). Best of luck/wishes to all of you!

 

[katydid23]

Not to take away from StephanieH post - but ditto - what is the connection to this thread of our past deeds? Including yours that you have posted?

YOU were the one that brought up my tutoring job, NOT ME. You asked about it a few posts back. I never brought it up.

 

[StephanieH]

I put "threatened" in quotes because if they feel threatened by a child with an airsoft gun in a park, or a man with an airsoft gun in Walmart (that he had just picked up in the toy department) then they shouldn't be cops. There are plenty of other jobs they would be more qualified for. (and don't even go there with,"Why was he carrying a toy gun in Walmart? Walmart allows both open carry and conceal carry of real firearms.)

 

[katydid23]

Not to take away from StephanieH post - but ditto - what is the connection to this thread of our past deeds? Including yours that you have posted?

Here is your post where YOU asked me about it:

Woodland
Registered User
Join Date
Sep 2009

Maybe you missed my previous posts katydid23 - I have said the public at large is likely better off with one less meth addict - in this thread.

Still fail to see how a cop can play investigator, judge, jury and executioner - maybe you can help. Have read that you work with disadvantaged youths (scary imo) and that you have family that are first responders - maybe LE - don't recall (forgive me on that). Maybe you can add stats as to who says what as far as current LE behavior goes - would very much appreciate such facts as I don't have them. Thanks in advance.

 

[Woodland]

Chuckles - I would not know about your past katydid23 without you posting about it.

Repeat best of luck to StephanieH and best wishes. Some LE do get it - let's hope that can be passed on to other LE departments.

 

[katydid23]

I put "threatened" in quotes because if they feel threatened by a child with an airsoft gun in a park, or a man with an airsoft gun in Walmart (that he had just picked up in the toy department) then they shouldn't be cops. There are plenty of other jobs they would be more qualified for. (and don't even go there with,"Why was he carrying a toy gun in Walmart? Walmart allows both open carry and conceal carry of real firearms.)

I wonder what percentage of their shooting incidents involve airsoft guns?

 

[al66pine]

My ex-husband ....My daughter told the police there were no weapons other than kitchen cutlery, but he was not armed.
The police came to the house and he did try to hit them. They DID NOT SHOOT HIM. Instead, they held him down with legal, non-lethal force until the medic gave him a sedative....

sbm bbm

bbm1
As someone else said, this is one event involving your loved ones. I'm very happy for your result, glad it did not end in injury.
Unfortunately, ppl calling 911 are not always truthful and may lie about whether suspect does or does not have weapons or access to same.
Just saying, LE have reason to believe not every 911 caller saying person/suspect has no weapon tells the truth.

bbm2
First time for every thing.

bbm3
Inside a home, like w your ex and dau, is a much more controlled environment than the Pasco WA event.
There, after suspect and LEO started tussling on ground, mobs of ppl could have done a pile-on, w chaos ensuing.

Again, glad your ex is getting treatment.

 

[Woodland]

So, a guy was throwing rocks at cars and LE. Now he's dead. What's next?

 

[al66pine]

So, a guy was throwing rocks at cars and LE. Now he's dead. What's next?

bbm
"“We always stand behind our officers unless they are proven (wrong),” Metzger said. “We are at this point doing a thorough investigation. If the officers are wrong they will be dealt with accordingly. If they are not wrong, that will also come out.”
.
"Metzger would not talk about the incident in detail, telling reporters his department has been removed from the case and he wants to respect the investigation by local law enforcement officials.
The Tri-City Special Investigative Unit is looking into the shooting and the Franklin County prosecutor will ultimately determine if the officers were justified.". bbm sbm
http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2015/02/11/3405116_man-shot-by-pasco-police-identified.html?rh=1. Feb 11

Personally, I'm waiting for Tri-City unit's report.

 

[Portabella]

Don't get me wrong...I do not hate or dislike law enforcement (lol) if you knew me its actually quite the opposite. I want to side with the cops....its ingrained in us from the time we are kids. But, until I can see full footage, I cannot say for sure I see this as "justified". I know we are only seeing a video at the end of what actually happened, we need to see it in its entirety. But, from what I see, from the spin put on it, I don't see it as cut and dry "justifiable shooting". I understand MORE then you will ever know how badly an officer, regardless of what dept or state they work in, wants to go home at night in one piece. But they still must adhere to the appropriate level of force. Have they stated by chance how long these officers have been on the force? IMHO

 

[Portabella]

deadly weapon
n. any weapon which can kill. This includes not only weapons which are intended to do harm like a gun or knife, but also blunt instruments like clubs, baseball bats, monkey wrenches, an automobile or any object which actually causes death. This becomes important when trying to prove criminal charges brought for assault with a deadly weapon. In a few 1990s cases courts have found rocks and even penises of AIDS sufferers as "deadly weapons."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/deadly+weapon

Not that I fully agree with it, but...bet this will be ruled justified. IMHO

 

[liljim]

i DONT want to side with the cops automatically, people get angry at me pretty regularly (lol) at me because of it.

but i dont want to disbelieve them either, i just look at the evidence.

every person that serves in the military isnt a hero, every cop isnt honest, just like every person in every other job on the planet isnt automatically "anything" just because of the position they hold.

so what is the evidence here? the police were called because someone was throwing rocks at cars, when they arrived two police were assaulted, a tasing failed, and then we have the video where we can plainly see a person resisting arrest and throw a rock larger than a brick at a police officer at close range, the rock is thrown hard enough to travel and bounce some distance, and it could definitely be said to have been thrown at head height. if that rock connected it would not be surprising to hear that it caused significant injury or even death.

the person then flees, and even after being shot at 5 times he is not submitting, he then turns and in my opinion he looks like he is getting ready to throw something else, something absolutely falls from his hands when he is shot. i dont think he is putting his hands up or turning around to surrender, watch the video a bunch of times, i think you will agree. is it reasonable to think the police honestly believed he was turning around and about to become a threat again? yes i think so.

they cant just let him go, he could go around the corner and harm or kill someone etc

so do i think i can condemn what these officers did? no, i dont think so. but i dont like it, and i STILL want to think that could have been some other way it could have ended, a takedown like has been suggested... but what if they try to wrestle with him and it turns out he is on drugs where he is beyond feeling pain and somehow he gets control of one of their guns? should police be REQUIRED to wrestle with someone in a situation like this?

like i said in the first post, its a tough video to watch, i dont like what happened... yet im pretty sure i agree with the way things happened. and that makes me feel uneasy.

 

[katydid23]

i DONT want to side with the cops automatically, people get angry at me pretty regularly (lol) at me because of it.

but i dont want to disbelieve them either, i just look at the evidence.

every person that serves in the military isnt a hero, every cop isnt honest, just like every person in every other job on the planet isnt automatically "anything" just because of the position they hold.

so what is the evidence here? the police were called because someone was throwing rocks at cars, when they arrived two police were assaulted, a tasing failed, and then we have the video where we can plainly see a person resisting arrest and throw a rock larger than a brick at a police officer at close range, the rock is thrown hard enough to travel and bounce some distance, and it could definitely be said to have been thrown at head height. if that rock connected it would not be surprising to hear that it caused significant injury or even death.

the person then flees, and even after being shot at 5 times he is not submitting, he then turns and in my opinion he looks like he is getting ready to throw something else, something absolutely falls from his hands when he is shot. i dont think he is putting his hands up or turning around to surrender, watch the video a bunch of times, i think you will agree. is it reasonable to think the police honestly believed he was turning around and about to become a threat again? yes i think so.

they cant just let him go, he could go around the corner and harm or kill someone etc

so do i think i can condemn what these officers did? no, i dont think so. but i dont like it, and i STILL want to think that could have been some other way it could have ended, a takedown like has been suggested... but what if they try to wrestle with him and it turns out he is on drugs where he is beyond feeling pain and somehow he gets control of one of their guns? should police be REQUIRED to wrestle with someone in a situation like this?

like i said in the first post, its a tough video to watch, i dont like what happened... yet im pretty sure i agree with the way things happened. and that makes me feel uneasy.

BBM

THAT ^^^ right there is the heart of the question, imo. The cops put up with this kind of violent interaction over and over and over. They are routinely asked to go head to head, physically, in altercations. So once a suspect has SHOWN their intent, by throwing a brick sized rock a one's head, then they are not going to be given a second chance to do so. And a cop should not be expected to do so.

if you were at work, and a stranger ran up and threw a brick at your head, you would be legally allowed to defend yourself, with lethal means if necessary. Why shouldn't a cop have the same rights?

 

[Woodland]

I agree Portabella that this shooting will be found to be justified.

It's what LE as a whole will take from this that worries me - everyone, in every job does the same thing imo and my experience - they reduce their responsibilities and accountability to a minimum - for the same pay cheque though. LE with a minimum of responsibility or accountability is what citizens need to worry about imo.

 

[al66pine]

....so do i think i can condemn what these officers did? no, i dont think so. but i dont like it, and i STILL want to think that could have been some other way it could have ended, a takedown like has been suggested... but what if they try to wrestle with him and it turns out he is on drugs where he is beyond feeling pain and somehow he gets control of one of their guns? should police be REQUIRED to wrestle with someone in a situation like this?....

. bbm sbm

liljim
Isn't this what happened, in effect?
Taser-ing did not have expected effect on him; he was beyond feeling or responding to pain.
Whether it was meth or other drugs, alcohol, or super-hero DNA, he did not comply w LE orders and continued
JM2cts.

 

[Portabella]

Can someone direct me to where I can see the part where he throws the brick, I have gone through the links provided, and I am either blind or stupid, but cannot see it or am missing it somehow? Thank you